Nice Letter
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13 with at least one who never believed in god? You'll have to do better than that.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I did say a 'start' didn't I. ;)
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I did say a 'start' didn't I. ;)
But it's incorrect so not a good start, at all.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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And Vikings discovered America first...so? But in the end, the notion of a hospital was popularized and expanded via Christians.
History of hospitals[^]. Methinks you have a particularly narrow view of the world.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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History of hospitals[^]. Methinks you have a particularly narrow view of the world.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
My point rests within your own link: "It can be said, however, that the modern concept of a hospital dates from 331 ce when Roman emperor Constantine I (Constantine the Great), having been converted to Christianity, abolished all pagan hospitals and thus created the opportunity for a new start. Until that time disease had isolated the sufferer from the community. The Christian tradition emphasized the close relationship of the sufferer to the members of the community, upon whom rested the obligation for care. Illness thus became a matter for the Christian church." Thanks. :D
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And Vikings discovered America first...so? But in the end, the notion of a hospital was popularized and expanded via Christians.
Your original claim was that 'medicine' was a result of Christianity i.e. no Christianity, no medicine, which is patently untrue. Medicine would've moved on, developed and expanded whether Christianity existed or not, maybe not as quickly in the early days, maybe. I'm interested to know (genuinely) your opinion on stem-cell research, which would appear to me to be an area of huge medical potential, but is subject to censure by various religious bodies. Andy B
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My point rests within your own link: "It can be said, however, that the modern concept of a hospital dates from 331 ce when Roman emperor Constantine I (Constantine the Great), having been converted to Christianity, abolished all pagan hospitals and thus created the opportunity for a new start. Until that time disease had isolated the sufferer from the community. The Christian tradition emphasized the close relationship of the sufferer to the members of the community, upon whom rested the obligation for care. Illness thus became a matter for the Christian church." Thanks. :D
That wasn't your original point and isn't even this one. You can't chop and change.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Quite a generalization but I do see your point. Don't forget though, every day there is more humanitarian aid by religious people than science ever offers. Just saying.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Don't forget though, every day there is more humanitarian aid by religious people than science ever offers. Just saying.
How does that even make sense? There is more humanitarian aid from religious people than Theology ever offers. Just saying. ;P
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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That wasn't your original point and isn't even this one. You can't chop and change.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I wrote:
The first hospitals (formalized places of medicine) were founded by churches. But in the end, the notion of a hospital was popularized and expanded via Christians. "It can be said, however, that the modern concept of a hospital dates from 331 ce when Roman emperor Constantine I (Constantine the Great), having been converted to Christianity, abolished all pagan hospitals and thus created the opportunity for a new start. Until that time disease had isolated the sufferer from the community. The Christian tradition emphasized the close relationship of the sufferer to the members of the community, upon whom rested the obligation for care. Illness thus became a matter for the Christian church."
I haven't changed my position. Yes, other places may have been tending to the sick, but the Christian faith made hospitals what we know of them today. You know humanitarian - prior to HMO's and the like.
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Your original claim was that 'medicine' was a result of Christianity i.e. no Christianity, no medicine, which is patently untrue. Medicine would've moved on, developed and expanded whether Christianity existed or not, maybe not as quickly in the early days, maybe. I'm interested to know (genuinely) your opinion on stem-cell research, which would appear to me to be an area of huge medical potential, but is subject to censure by various religious bodies. Andy B
Yes. I admit the statement was a bit lacking on details, but no I don't believe medicine would not have occurred without Christianity. I do believe though it was reinforced and expanded due to Christian efforts. As for stem-cell research, I haven't personally delved into the subject much. As with most things, opening new doors opens new benefits and new perils - a Pandora's box of sorts. For certain though, it isn't something we can legislate away - someone is bound to do research into it regardless. The only good way to handle it is to at least provide guidelines in how the research obtains the stem cells. As for anything else, I'd have to do more research.
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I wrote:
The first hospitals (formalized places of medicine) were founded by churches. But in the end, the notion of a hospital was popularized and expanded via Christians. "It can be said, however, that the modern concept of a hospital dates from 331 ce when Roman emperor Constantine I (Constantine the Great), having been converted to Christianity, abolished all pagan hospitals and thus created the opportunity for a new start. Until that time disease had isolated the sufferer from the community. The Christian tradition emphasized the close relationship of the sufferer to the members of the community, upon whom rested the obligation for care. Illness thus became a matter for the Christian church."
I haven't changed my position. Yes, other places may have been tending to the sick, but the Christian faith made hospitals what we know of them today. You know humanitarian - prior to HMO's and the like.
As long as you are happy with that.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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But it's incorrect so not a good start, at all.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Granted, I missed the comment about Albert Einstein, but I feel the 12 notable Scientists is not something to outright dismiss. I'm sure it would take a legion of names to prove my point to you, so it's hardly something I would undertake. I would say though that faith did not preclude someone from exploring the world around them in a Scientific way. Science and faith can co-exist.
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As long as you are happy with that.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Sadly, no, I'm not happy with HMOs and how a roll of gauze costs $50. Unfortunately, this is how things are. ;)
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Granted, I missed the comment about Albert Einstein, but I feel the 12 notable Scientists is not something to outright dismiss. I'm sure it would take a legion of names to prove my point to you, so it's hardly something I would undertake. I would say though that faith did not preclude someone from exploring the world around them in a Scientific way. Science and faith can co-exist.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Granted, I missed the comment about Albert Einstein, but I feel the 12 notable Scientists is not something to outright dismiss.
Doesn't exactly make your point though, does it? 12 out of the hordes that have existed? That would be fine if there had only ever been 17 scientists that ever lived.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Science and faith can co-exist.
No: a scientist can have faith but faith has nothing to do with science.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Sadly, no, I'm not happy with HMOs and how a roll of gauze costs $50. Unfortunately, this is how things are. ;)
Not very christian, I would say. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Not very christian, I would say. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Like a lot of things, they've been corrupted. ;)
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Like a lot of things, they've been corrupted. ;)
All religion is corrupt: that is its nature: a cult predicated on a lie. BTW: adding a smiley does not let you off the hook! :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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All religion is corrupt: that is its nature: a cult predicated on a lie. BTW: adding a smiley does not let you off the hook! :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
:( How about a frown? Seriously though...any organization of man is bound to be corrupt to some degree by the very fact man is in it. We are corrupt/fallen beings. Do I believe that religion should be tossed aside because of a few bad eggs? No. See the whole baby with the bath water dilemma.
mark merrens wrote:
a cult predicated on a lie.
Watch it now, your faith is starting to show. ;)
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Andrew Rissing wrote:
Granted, I missed the comment about Albert Einstein, but I feel the 12 notable Scientists is not something to outright dismiss.
Doesn't exactly make your point though, does it? 12 out of the hordes that have existed? That would be fine if there had only ever been 17 scientists that ever lived.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Science and faith can co-exist.
No: a scientist can have faith but faith has nothing to do with science.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
12 out of the hordes that have existed?
I did say start didn't I? :D And with that, we'll just leave that thread dead, unworthy of further banter.
mark merrens wrote:
faith has nothing to do with science.
<Tongue in cheek>It does take a bit of faith though to say that there are X number of dimensions we cannot see and cannot prove, but just trust me that they are there.</Tongue in cheek> We all have faith in something, it just depends on your world view what exactly that is - faith in the existence or lack there of of something that has yet to be proven.
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LabVIEWstuff wrote:
now stop using condoms
You're confusing Catholic dogma (which isn't Christianity), but current church 'rules' if you will.
LabVIEWstuff wrote:
tolerating homosexuals
Actually, Christianity (if you're not talking to a extremist) is about hating sin, loving the person.
LabVIEWstuff wrote:
educating girls
I can't even begin to think where this statement comes from. As the only religion I know of that doesn't support educating women, is definitely not Christianity.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
You're confusing Catholic dogma (which isn't Christianity), but current church 'rules' if you will.
Really? Certainly Catholicism falls under the umbrella of Christianity. And as far as I know Catholicism is based on the idea that the Pope and only the Pope is allowed to determine what the faith represents. And Pope does not allow the use of condems. Thus it is in fact part of the faith of Catholicism that condoms are not allowed. And since Catholics are close to if not over 50% of all Christians in the world and since there are other Christians that do not allow them then one can certainly generalize that Christianity doesn't favor condoms. On the other hand your definition of a 'rule' would seem to fit more closely with the Catholicism view of priests having sex with children.
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Oh, I whole heartedly believe that Science and religion can co-exist - my wife is a perfect example of such. But in my original statement, it was that Science is being used to try to disprove God, when frankly it has just the same ability to prove His existence as well. Hence, why the debate even exists. As for the origins of Science, originally it was to discern 'what' the world is or 'how' the world is, rather than what it is now, which is 'why' the world is. I'm referring to Science circa Newton.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Science is being used to try to disprove God, when frankly it has just the same ability to prove His existence as well.
Which is none. The scientific method can neither disprove nor prove the existence of gods.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Hence, why the debate even exists.
The debate as to the existence of god certainly predates the scientific method. "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God!'" Psalm 14 - Attributed to David circa 1010-970 BCE (2 B PC) Early evidence of Atheists. :)
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp