Nice Letter
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:( How about a frown? Seriously though...any organization of man is bound to be corrupt to some degree by the very fact man is in it. We are corrupt/fallen beings. Do I believe that religion should be tossed aside because of a few bad eggs? No. See the whole baby with the bath water dilemma.
mark merrens wrote:
a cult predicated on a lie.
Watch it now, your faith is starting to show. ;)
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Do I believe that religion should be tossed aside because of a few bad eggs?
I do: they're not just bad, they're rotten to the core.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Watch it now, your faith is starting to show.
Impossible: I don't have any.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Andrew Rissing wrote:
the Christian faith made hospitals what we know of them today. You know humanitarian
Healing was practised in Temples dedicated to Asclepius (God of Healing). So, not much difference between them and hospitals attached to Churches. The Temples were not closed because of the treatment provided, nor for their want of humanity, but merely because they were pagan. Illness thus became a matter for the Church because it always had been a matter for the religion du jour. Sick people turn to their gods for succour, make offerings to their Temples or Churches.
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
ict558 wrote:
Illness thus became a matter for the Church
Actually, it was important to the Church, since the Christian faith is built upon compassion for others - especially those who normally wouldn't receive care.
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mark merrens wrote:
12 out of the hordes that have existed?
I did say start didn't I? :D And with that, we'll just leave that thread dead, unworthy of further banter.
mark merrens wrote:
faith has nothing to do with science.
<Tongue in cheek>It does take a bit of faith though to say that there are X number of dimensions we cannot see and cannot prove, but just trust me that they are there.</Tongue in cheek> We all have faith in something, it just depends on your world view what exactly that is - faith in the existence or lack there of of something that has yet to be proven.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
We all have faith in something, it just depends on your world view what exactly that is - faith in the existence or lack there of of something that has yet to be proven.
No we don't: you're making the error of ascribing your beliefs to everyone else because you think that everyone is like you. They're not. And it isn't faith to postulate that there may be more to the universe than we currently know. Faith is saying that it is all supernatural and can't be rationally explained.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Andrew Rissing wrote:
We all have faith in something, it just depends on your world view what exactly that is - faith in the existence or lack there of of something that has yet to be proven.
No we don't: you're making the error of ascribing your beliefs to everyone else because you think that everyone is like you. They're not. And it isn't faith to postulate that there may be more to the universe than we currently know. Faith is saying that it is all supernatural and can't be rationally explained.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
No we don't: you're making the error of ascribing your beliefs to everyone else because you think that everyone is like you.
I'll use words that won't invoke as much negative emotion then...belief. We all have a belief in something, it just depends on what your world view is.
mark merrens wrote:
Faith is saying that it is all supernatural and can't be rationally explained
Faith isn't limited to supernatural things. Faith, as defined by Google: Complete trust or confidence in someone or something[^] It isn't faith that postulated it, but it is faith that sustains it.
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Andrew Rissing wrote:
Do I believe that religion should be tossed aside because of a few bad eggs?
I do: they're not just bad, they're rotten to the core.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Watch it now, your faith is starting to show.
Impossible: I don't have any.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
I do
I'm sorry you do, then.
mark merrens wrote:
Impossible: I don't have any.
See our other thread. ;)
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mark merrens wrote:
No we don't: you're making the error of ascribing your beliefs to everyone else because you think that everyone is like you.
I'll use words that won't invoke as much negative emotion then...belief. We all have a belief in something, it just depends on what your world view is.
mark merrens wrote:
Faith is saying that it is all supernatural and can't be rationally explained
Faith isn't limited to supernatural things. Faith, as defined by Google: Complete trust or confidence in someone or something[^] It isn't faith that postulated it, but it is faith that sustains it.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
It isn't faith that postulated it, but it is faith that sustains it.
We'll have to differ here. Recall, you're the one using faith in a religious context; you can't then apply it to everything else as well to make your point work.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
It isn't faith that postulated it, but it is faith that sustains it.
That makes no sense.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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mark merrens wrote:
I do
I'm sorry you do, then.
mark merrens wrote:
Impossible: I don't have any.
See our other thread. ;)
Andrew Rissing wrote:
I'm sorry you do, then.
Please don't: I'm perfectly happy with my non-belief; it is you that I feel sorry for: shackled and enslaved to the cult of religion.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
See our other thread.
Oh boy; can't be asked: you'll just have to have faith that I mean what I say.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Andrew Rissing wrote:
It isn't faith that postulated it, but it is faith that sustains it.
We'll have to differ here. Recall, you're the one using faith in a religious context; you can't then apply it to everything else as well to make your point work.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
It isn't faith that postulated it, but it is faith that sustains it.
That makes no sense.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
My comment merely to those who believe in things that cannot be seen, such as string theory. They have faith in their theories - as someone had defined elsewhere - faith is belief in the supernatural. 8+ dimensions that are not visible or testable seems rather supernatural to me. :omg:
mark merrens wrote:
It isn't faith that postulated it, but it is faith that sustains it.
I'm merely stating that their faith in string theory is what is sustaining their continued work in it - in the face of no clear proof.
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My comment merely to those who believe in things that cannot be seen, such as string theory. They have faith in their theories - as someone had defined elsewhere - faith is belief in the supernatural. 8+ dimensions that are not visible or testable seems rather supernatural to me. :omg:
mark merrens wrote:
It isn't faith that postulated it, but it is faith that sustains it.
I'm merely stating that their faith in string theory is what is sustaining their continued work in it - in the face of no clear proof.
I am willing to bet that if you asked one of them if faith had anything to do with it they'd say no (unless, of course, they believe in a god). Their theories are usually (and I'm happy to be corrected here) supported by the math. So, whilst they may not be able to see n dimensions they can postulate that they exist and provide a mathematical framework to support that hypothesis. Read this; you might find it interesting: Calabi–Yau manifold[^]. It is wrong to assert that science is predicated on faith in the religious sense: the whole notion of science is reason and observation and experimentation; almost anti-faith.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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ict558 wrote:
Which is none. The scientific method can neither disprove nor prove the existence of gods.
Debatable, honestly. It is a matter of opinion and perspective - in either light.
ict558 wrote:
The debate as to the existence of god certainly predates the scientific method.
Agreed. But the point was just that if a concrete proof existed, it wouldn't be a debatable subject.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
Debatable, honestly. It is a matter of opinion and perspective - in either light.
So provide a proof.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I am willing to bet that if you asked one of them if faith had anything to do with it they'd say no (unless, of course, they believe in a god). Their theories are usually (and I'm happy to be corrected here) supported by the math. So, whilst they may not be able to see n dimensions they can postulate that they exist and provide a mathematical framework to support that hypothesis. Read this; you might find it interesting: Calabi–Yau manifold[^]. It is wrong to assert that science is predicated on faith in the religious sense: the whole notion of science is reason and observation and experimentation; almost anti-faith.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
What I think the problem is you cannot detach the notion of faith from religion. I'm by no means an expert in string theory, but what I do know of it, it seems to be far from fully accepted due to a lack of evidence. My statements are merely that they have faith (not to be confused with faith in God), but a faith regardless. Either way, I'll just let this discuss end here. We're not heading towards a conclusion any time soon and only spamming CP. So, agree to disagree. You can reply if you like, but I shall leave it as such.
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What I think the problem is you cannot detach the notion of faith from religion. I'm by no means an expert in string theory, but what I do know of it, it seems to be far from fully accepted due to a lack of evidence. My statements are merely that they have faith (not to be confused with faith in God), but a faith regardless. Either way, I'll just let this discuss end here. We're not heading towards a conclusion any time soon and only spamming CP. So, agree to disagree. You can reply if you like, but I shall leave it as such.
Ah, ye of little faith.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Andrew Rissing wrote:
Debatable, honestly. It is a matter of opinion and perspective - in either light.
So provide a proof.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
The original comment was in regards to God being provable/disprovable via Science. As seen by the current ongoing debates, Science has been used on both sides of the debate. As in my other thread, you may continue, but I see no point in continuing forward.
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The original comment was in regards to God being provable/disprovable via Science. As seen by the current ongoing debates, Science has been used on both sides of the debate. As in my other thread, you may continue, but I see no point in continuing forward.
So you can't answer. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Dear Religion, This week I safely dropped a human being from space; you shot a 14 year old girl in the head for wanting an education. Yours, Science.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Yours,
Science.I think its interesting that people think that "Science" is free from dogmas or ulterior motives. :) http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/10/17/scientific-research-retractions.aspx?e_cid=20121017_DNL_art_2[^]
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My statement is purely that the Pope determined this 'rule'. Based on what is found in the Bible, you cannot state that God is for or against condoms.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
My statement is purely that the Pope determined this 'rule'
And my statement is that that Catholicism is based on Papal proclimations. It isn't just an opinion of one individual but a statement about what all Catholics are required to follow to be considered acceptable in the eyes of god. That is how Catholicism works.
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ict558 wrote:
Illness thus became a matter for the Church
Actually, it was important to the Church, since the Christian faith is built upon compassion for others - especially those who normally wouldn't receive care.
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Quote:
It doesn't mean you helping your neighbor because they broke their leg.
Sure it does. Read the dictionary definition, not some post some fulano de tal put on wiki. having concern for or helping to improve the welfare and happiness of people.[^]
Quote:
larger scale effort
That is often how it is referred to, but it does not have to be large scale.
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And without science. 1. There would be no way to provide such aid.
Not true. Yes, science has helped, but people were helping people long before science was a part of it.
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Desire to do good is simply not enough.
Ironic.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Read the dictionary definition,
www.webster.com does not recognize "humanitarian aid" as a word. And since that is the phrased that was used that is the definition that is under discussion.
ryanb31 wrote:
That is often how it is referred to, but it does not have to be large scale.
And I can use 'potato' to describe what is often "referred" to as a tomato but that doesn't alter the discussion that is about a tomato.
ryanb31 wrote:
but people were helping people long before science was a part of it.
Which has nothing to do with "humanitarian aid". That was the exact phrase that was used. It wasn't 'helping people'. You attempted to expand the definition. But no one uses that phrase to mean all forms of people "helping" other people.
ryanb31 wrote:
Ironic.
Nope. It is a fact.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Read the dictionary definition,
www.webster.com does not recognize "humanitarian aid" as a word. And since that is the phrased that was used that is the definition that is under discussion.
ryanb31 wrote:
That is often how it is referred to, but it does not have to be large scale.
And I can use 'potato' to describe what is often "referred" to as a tomato but that doesn't alter the discussion that is about a tomato.
ryanb31 wrote:
but people were helping people long before science was a part of it.
Which has nothing to do with "humanitarian aid". That was the exact phrase that was used. It wasn't 'helping people'. You attempted to expand the definition. But no one uses that phrase to mean all forms of people "helping" other people.
ryanb31 wrote:
Ironic.
Nope. It is a fact.
Quote:
www.webster.com does not recognize "humanitarian aid" as a word.
And neither would anyone who is literate. It is not a word, but two. "Humanitarian aid" is aid given humanitarianly. So, go back and read your link to wiki. It does not mention it has to be large scale. But why nit pick the definition of the word(s) and totally bypass the actual point? Talk about splitting hairs. You sure do come out of the wood work with some weird ones.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Andrew Rissing wrote:
I'm sorry you do, then.
Please don't: I'm perfectly happy with my non-belief; it is you that I feel sorry for: shackled and enslaved to the cult of religion.
Andrew Rissing wrote:
See our other thread.
Oh boy; can't be asked: you'll just have to have faith that I mean what I say.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
Please don't: I'm perfectly happy with my non-belief; it is you that I feel sorry for: shackled and enslaved to the cult of religion.
Err...this part of the sub-thread referred to "faith" and not "religion". There is a difference. And you might chose to believe that God (of any sort) doesn't exist but that belief in of itself is no different than a belief that God does exist. And that says little about religion or organized religion as well. I also suspect that you would be hard pressed to prove that many people are "shackled and enslaved" to their religion. Certainly isn't true in the US where the vast majority of people ignore edicts of their organised religion willy-nilly as they see fit both for minor and even major parts of the religion. Divorce rate for Catholics is a primary example of that. Even in countries where religion is strictly enforced people often disobey edicts. If that wasn't the case then there wouldn't need to be enforcement. An example of that is that Saudia Arabia has various laws against different types of activities around alcohol.