The 'bug' list
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Happens... unfortunately you just have to learn to deal with it or offer to help them understand how everything works a bit better. People won't always agree with the way you chose to code things, so prepare to be criticized (directly or indirectly).
Good points. I mainly think the different interpretations of bug is what is funny. Its also funny how they are trying to skip around what is contractually obligated ;-)
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
One of the first projects I worked on professionally had a customer like that - everything was a bug so that they didn't have to pay for it. In one particularly egregious case, they reported that the code wasn't calculating a value properly. When I investigated, I found that they had changed the rules used to calculate the value, and hadn't bothered to tell anyone. Of course, they expected the software to magically know about this change and adjust the calculation accordingly. :doh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
Tell them insects are not your problem, but you'll be happy to look into any defects they discover. :)
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
If there is a bug I'll fix it. If it is a feature request I tell the customer so and get them to flesh it out first. If it is none of the above I just shoot a WAD at them. In case you're wondering: "Works As Designed" Cheers!
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
Sasha Laurel wrote:
I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
That of course is a management (your managers) problem. Businesses often route all customer requests through some sort of filter process often a business analysis, and that person classifies the communications. If your company doesn't have such a layer then it is your job.
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Good points. I mainly think the different interpretations of bug is what is funny. Its also funny how they are trying to skip around what is contractually obligated ;-)
Everyone wants exactly what they need at that very moment... not what they bought... I think it's more a psychological thing than anything else.
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Oh yes. Remember that the user is not generally as computer literate as they think. Anything the program does that they don't expect (or want) it to is a bug as far as they are concerned. :sigh:
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
Specially when the buttons are not "our blue" :doh: :sigh:
Regards. -------- M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpfull answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Specially when the buttons are not "our blue" :doh: :sigh:
Regards. -------- M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpfull answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
:laugh: Yep. That is important to some people. (Many, many years ago when monitors were text based, and generally green-on-black, I had to work on a a colour VDU for the blind. It had to have colour, and the colours of everything had to be user selectable, for their comfort. And it had to have a Braille output from each text line because they couldn't see the screen at all... :doh:)
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
I fully agree with jschell. Clients can be uneducated and unable (or too lazy) to specify what they want. You have to help them formalize things. This is part of the game. More serious is the situation where your management are uneducated ;)
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
Oh my God, yes. Yes, Yes, Yes.
We all have our faults, but the fault that practically defines the software customer is his conviction that "the specification" is "whatever I happen to want at the moment."
Quite a few software customers regard any suggestion that they have a responsibility to the process -- a binding commitment to whatever specification they've agreed to and presented to Engineering -- as a deadly insult. "What do you mean?" they say. "I'm paying you." It occurs to few of them that even the best of us aren't telepaths and can't read the requirements right out of their heads. It occurs to effectively none of them that a change to agreed-upon requirements, once they've been written down and signed off, constitutes a new purchase order, deserving of its own price tag and time-to-delivery.
In part, the problem arises from our ever-increasing speed of production and refinement. We're getting too _BLEEP!_ing good at this stuff, colleagues. So they importune us with indirect praise of our skills: "It's such a small change for you, and you turn this stuff out so fast! Couldn't you just fold it into the next revision?"
And every time our pride impels us to accede to such a request, we encourage them to do it again. We dig our own graves just...a little...deeper...
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
I find it useful, in dealing with clients, to distinguish between bugs, deficiencies, and missing features: A bug is present when the software doesn't behave as the programmer intended, and usually reflects a programming error. Bugs get fixed asap, and on my dime. A deficiency is present when the a feature doesn't work as the customer intended, but the programming is correct. These usually result from a failure to communicate what was wanted, usually because I didn't ask the right questions about edge cases or unusual circumstances. These also get fixed promptly, and (usually) on my dime, and they prompt a review of the specifications for possible similar problem areas elsewhere. Missing features, on the other hand, are generally things that the client wants to add that weren't in the original specification. These (unless trivial) have to be costed out and billed to the client. If you are straightforward about identifying and handling the first two properly, you are in a good position to make the client take responsibility for the third.
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Oh my God, yes. Yes, Yes, Yes.
We all have our faults, but the fault that practically defines the software customer is his conviction that "the specification" is "whatever I happen to want at the moment."
Quite a few software customers regard any suggestion that they have a responsibility to the process -- a binding commitment to whatever specification they've agreed to and presented to Engineering -- as a deadly insult. "What do you mean?" they say. "I'm paying you." It occurs to few of them that even the best of us aren't telepaths and can't read the requirements right out of their heads. It occurs to effectively none of them that a change to agreed-upon requirements, once they've been written down and signed off, constitutes a new purchase order, deserving of its own price tag and time-to-delivery.
In part, the problem arises from our ever-increasing speed of production and refinement. We're getting too _BLEEP!_ing good at this stuff, colleagues. So they importune us with indirect praise of our skills: "It's such a small change for you, and you turn this stuff out so fast! Couldn't you just fold it into the next revision?"
And every time our pride impels us to accede to such a request, we encourage them to do it again. We dig our own graves just...a little...deeper...
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
Quote:
"the specification" is "whatever I happen to want at the moment."
You hit the nail on the head I think. I once suggested to this particular client that it would be helpful if they would provide more detailed information. I also suggested that when I asked questions that responses were NOT optional. Geez, you would have thought that I was a mortal enemy for a few moments there ;-).
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I fully agree with jschell. Clients can be uneducated and unable (or too lazy) to specify what they want. You have to help them formalize things. This is part of the game. More serious is the situation where your management are uneducated ;)
You mean to say that some management actually understand the software suites that they are managing? :laugh:
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You mean to say that some management actually understand the software suites that they are managing? :laugh:
Yes. The day you'll move to management ;)
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
Yes. Every time I roll out a new version of any my software packs, apperently when things look a little different, or has new functionallity, it pops on the bug list X|
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I find it useful, in dealing with clients, to distinguish between bugs, deficiencies, and missing features: A bug is present when the software doesn't behave as the programmer intended, and usually reflects a programming error. Bugs get fixed asap, and on my dime. A deficiency is present when the a feature doesn't work as the customer intended, but the programming is correct. These usually result from a failure to communicate what was wanted, usually because I didn't ask the right questions about edge cases or unusual circumstances. These also get fixed promptly, and (usually) on my dime, and they prompt a review of the specifications for possible similar problem areas elsewhere. Missing features, on the other hand, are generally things that the client wants to add that weren't in the original specification. These (unless trivial) have to be costed out and billed to the client. If you are straightforward about identifying and handling the first two properly, you are in a good position to make the client take responsibility for the third.
Nice
Gus Gustafson
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
I learned that we can't tell the clients what they want, despite knowing they are wrong sometimes. In the end they are the ones we have to please even though we can get aggravated on doing something we don't agree. If they are wrong, and the "bugs" are there to better help them with their jobs we gotta give them what they want by "fixing the bugs" and let them bang the head against the wall as long as they are paying for it.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Oh my God, yes. Yes, Yes, Yes.
We all have our faults, but the fault that practically defines the software customer is his conviction that "the specification" is "whatever I happen to want at the moment."
Quite a few software customers regard any suggestion that they have a responsibility to the process -- a binding commitment to whatever specification they've agreed to and presented to Engineering -- as a deadly insult. "What do you mean?" they say. "I'm paying you." It occurs to few of them that even the best of us aren't telepaths and can't read the requirements right out of their heads. It occurs to effectively none of them that a change to agreed-upon requirements, once they've been written down and signed off, constitutes a new purchase order, deserving of its own price tag and time-to-delivery.
In part, the problem arises from our ever-increasing speed of production and refinement. We're getting too _BLEEP!_ing good at this stuff, colleagues. So they importune us with indirect praise of our skills: "It's such a small change for you, and you turn this stuff out so fast! Couldn't you just fold it into the next revision?"
And every time our pride impels us to accede to such a request, we encourage them to do it again. We dig our own graves just...a little...deeper...
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
Fran Porretto wrote:
And every time our pride impels us to accede to such a request, we encourage them to do it again. We dig our own graves just...a little...deeper...
Spot on. It's like getting caught by quicksand, the more we fight, the deeper we get. I learned not to fight and just give in. It creates a better chance of survival ;)
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
The customer's perception is that bugfixes are free, whereas new features require a lot more overhead and sometimes actual money. So, filing a bug is perceived as a lightweight (and free) process to get a small change into the code. There are some who abuse it though, and I've even run into some I suspect were abusing it intentionally. Aside from those who are intentionally abusing it, keep in mind that the customer only looks at the user interface. They'd never ask for a complete redesign of the UI as a "bugfix", but they wouldn't hesitate to ask for what appears to them to be a small UI change, completely unaware that it might result in a significant amount of work. Changes that have no UI manifestation are perceived as even smaller.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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So this client continually puts together a bug list and pushes it at the management. Management sends it to me and find that it is a list of things that 'bug' them (the client) about the software :wtf:. Is this common for anyone else? I mean, there is usually 1 or 2 items on the list that can be construed as actual 'bugs' as in unintended behaviors or consequences. :laugh: I usually say "These are requests, not bugs. Spec them out and we'll add them to the backlog."
At the place I used to work at, this one disgruntled "designer" would write up bugs that would later turn out to be features he wanted to install but had been outvoted by the other designers.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
