"You know you're a Version Control Avoider if..."
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I am in the process of trying to introduce Version/Revision Control to a team of developers who have never used it. I will be giving a presentation that I hope will be a persuasive explanation of the importance of Version Control -- the benefits of using it and the liabilities of avoiding it. I would like to kick it off with an amusing but instructive list modelled after the "redneck" line of jokes. Can anyone help me add to this list? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know you're a Version Control Avoider if..." • You have a bunch of files or folders with names like Engine_05212012_works_old[2].cpp • You've had to explain to your boss how you accidentally overwrote production code. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't consider myself terribly witty, but I think a little humor could be helpful in this situation. Any ideas for how to extend this list? [Bonus points if you can suggest a better moniker than "Version Control Avoider"]
Their comeback will be very simply 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' and they might be right! VCS is not the ideal in every situation, it can make work harder and can be more error prone as people stop thinking! Worse they don't comment about changes in the code as 'oh we can let the version contol tell us' - wrong wrong wrong! You should also assume you can't trust your VCS and keep manual backups of all release builds or milestone releases. You will sleep easier and possibly keep your job longer! We use VCS but always use a manual backup for reverting to maintenance changes. We don't acualy fork so thats something we don't have to worry about (lucky us!)
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Not a joke, but at my last company they did have production go down, and the backup was overwritten with the broken production, so the entire 500,000 lines of SQL stored procedures were lost. Or, they would have been if a coworker hadn't made a personal backup. Instead of fixing the situation (version control, off site backups, hardware that isn't ancient, employees that aren't tards, etc.), they put her in charge of backups. :doh:
I think I worked for that same boss at one point. :wtf:
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I am in the process of trying to introduce Version/Revision Control to a team of developers who have never used it. I will be giving a presentation that I hope will be a persuasive explanation of the importance of Version Control -- the benefits of using it and the liabilities of avoiding it. I would like to kick it off with an amusing but instructive list modelled after the "redneck" line of jokes. Can anyone help me add to this list? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know you're a Version Control Avoider if..." • You have a bunch of files or folders with names like Engine_05212012_works_old[2].cpp • You've had to explain to your boss how you accidentally overwrote production code. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't consider myself terribly witty, but I think a little humor could be helpful in this situation. Any ideas for how to extend this list? [Bonus points if you can suggest a better moniker than "Version Control Avoider"]
I tried to do the same thing with a company that I worked for. When I asked one of the guys why he would manually copy directories for some revisions instead of using version control to create a revision history he replied (off topic even) that his code was proprietary because it was better than the rest, and that he didn't need to share any of it with the team, so version control was pointless. I asked him what happened if his house/computer was destroyed and he died. He said he hoped that maybe he could specify with his third party backup who could access the files. So... I guess: You might be a Version Control Avoider if.. you are arrogant and ignorant? I seriously could not believe that kind of response, it didn't even answer my question. It was like he just had that canned and somehow expected all of the people outside of his little bubble to just accept it as valid. I think he has since been forced to use a centralized repository to some degree.
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As I work alone, mostly, I don't use any particular program for version control, other than upon reaching a particular milestone I archive the code using WinRar and store on an external drive. Part of the problem, for me, is that learning and setting up a repository takes more time than I have to devote to it.
MythicalMe wrote:
As I work alone, mostly, I don't use any particular program for version control, other than upon reaching a particular milestone I archive the code using WinRar and store on an external drive.
:omg: Version Control is not about achieving milestone. Milestones are just part of it. In version control systems milestones are know as "tags". You will also save a lot of disk space with that as you don't need to create entire project copies with version control systems. They just mark the differences that you can go back to easily. Version control is really about controlling what was where and when, even for a one person project. You can't possibly remember everything you done and version control is there to help. Sometimes you may break something that you realize only a long time after it was broken. You can see what and how something got broken by comparing the revisions of a particular file.
MythicalMe wrote:
Part of the problem, for me, is that learning and setting up a repository takes more time than I have to devote to it.
Take a look at TortoiseSVN[^]. It is really easy to setup a repository with it in two mouse clicks. You don't even need a server for it. You can setup the repository in local file system, external drive, or file share.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I am in the process of trying to introduce Version/Revision Control to a team of developers who have never used it. I will be giving a presentation that I hope will be a persuasive explanation of the importance of Version Control -- the benefits of using it and the liabilities of avoiding it. I would like to kick it off with an amusing but instructive list modelled after the "redneck" line of jokes. Can anyone help me add to this list? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know you're a Version Control Avoider if..." • You have a bunch of files or folders with names like Engine_05212012_works_old[2].cpp • You've had to explain to your boss how you accidentally overwrote production code. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't consider myself terribly witty, but I think a little humor could be helpful in this situation. Any ideas for how to extend this list? [Bonus points if you can suggest a better moniker than "Version Control Avoider"]
kdmote wrote:
"You know you're a Version Control Avoider if..."
You have foldes like: \MyProject\Version 1.0 \MyProject\Version 1.1 \MyProject\Version 1.2 \MyProject\Version 1.3 \MyProject\Version 1.4 \MyProject\Version 1.5 \MyProject\Version 1.6 \MyProject\Version 1.7 \MyProject\Version 1.8 ....
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I am in the process of trying to introduce Version/Revision Control to a team of developers who have never used it. I will be giving a presentation that I hope will be a persuasive explanation of the importance of Version Control -- the benefits of using it and the liabilities of avoiding it. I would like to kick it off with an amusing but instructive list modelled after the "redneck" line of jokes. Can anyone help me add to this list? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know you're a Version Control Avoider if..." • You have a bunch of files or folders with names like Engine_05212012_works_old[2].cpp • You've had to explain to your boss how you accidentally overwrote production code. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't consider myself terribly witty, but I think a little humor could be helpful in this situation. Any ideas for how to extend this list? [Bonus points if you can suggest a better moniker than "Version Control Avoider"]
I would re-phrase via self-deprecation to defuse... "I knew I was a Version Control Avoider when I ..." I think most people are amenable to version control as long as someone else goes through all of the pain and suffering of setting it up. If you can checkout, change, checkin and merge in a relatively painless fashion, then you should have no problem selling it. Merging is where they should see big paybacks! Here is one for your punchlines: "...when I had 10 personal copies of the website in various directories and various stages of repair and the only way I was sure which one was active was to check the web server config."
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you comment out your code instead of deleting it?! ;-)
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MythicalMe wrote:
As I work alone, mostly, I don't use any particular program for version control, other than upon reaching a particular milestone I archive the code using WinRar and store on an external drive.
:omg: Version Control is not about achieving milestone. Milestones are just part of it. In version control systems milestones are know as "tags". You will also save a lot of disk space with that as you don't need to create entire project copies with version control systems. They just mark the differences that you can go back to easily. Version control is really about controlling what was where and when, even for a one person project. You can't possibly remember everything you done and version control is there to help. Sometimes you may break something that you realize only a long time after it was broken. You can see what and how something got broken by comparing the revisions of a particular file.
MythicalMe wrote:
Part of the problem, for me, is that learning and setting up a repository takes more time than I have to devote to it.
Take a look at TortoiseSVN[^]. It is really easy to setup a repository with it in two mouse clicks. You don't even need a server for it. You can setup the repository in local file system, external drive, or file share.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
I've been programming since 1974. I have 3 terabytes of internal storage and another 3 terabytes available using external docking stations, so disk space is not a problem. As for remembering what I've done... true, but trust me, I know how to read my code and I do document my work reasonably well. However, as I am always open to changes and new things I will try tortoisesvn. My original post was mainly at addressing the problem of convincing someone to use a system. When I was first aware of spreadsheet software I never made any headway into using them. I got taught how to use Lotus 1-2-3, by a representative from Lotus, and now I use spreadsheets for a lot of things. It's like TDD, I read a lot about it and why to use it, but there isn't a lot of how to do TDD. For all I know I have been doing TDD for years, only it is just a different name.
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Ha, proved my own point backwards. A bit dum, but c'est la vie. Equally makes the point about how humans prefer to behave (the reply to my own message), tough habit to break. I'd recommend buying Andy's book, The Jelly Bean Effect, worth the price, lots of this stuff in there, presented far better than I have. Mike
Really liked your comments. Thanks! I think the book's name is The Jelly Effect though.
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I've been programming since 1974. I have 3 terabytes of internal storage and another 3 terabytes available using external docking stations, so disk space is not a problem. As for remembering what I've done... true, but trust me, I know how to read my code and I do document my work reasonably well. However, as I am always open to changes and new things I will try tortoisesvn. My original post was mainly at addressing the problem of convincing someone to use a system. When I was first aware of spreadsheet software I never made any headway into using them. I got taught how to use Lotus 1-2-3, by a representative from Lotus, and now I use spreadsheets for a lot of things. It's like TDD, I read a lot about it and why to use it, but there isn't a lot of how to do TDD. For all I know I have been doing TDD for years, only it is just a different name.
MythicalMe wrote:
but trust me, I know how to read my code and I do document my work reasonably well.
I agree, but you can't document enough to track everything that was done on a file since it was first created. You can't believe how tracking the changes can be useful and better yet, how comparing file version side by side can save tons of time. IN SVN this is called diff, see sample screenshot[^] This work even for word documents and excel files. Tortoise will show where exactly something got changed and how and when working in teams, by whom.
MythicalMe wrote:
However, as I am always open to changes and new things I will try tortoisesvn.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
MythicalMe wrote:
It's like TDD, I read a lot about it and why to use it, but there isn't a lot of how to do TDD. For all I know I have been doing TDD for years, only it is just a different name.
That's how I feel as well.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I am in the process of trying to introduce Version/Revision Control to a team of developers who have never used it. I will be giving a presentation that I hope will be a persuasive explanation of the importance of Version Control -- the benefits of using it and the liabilities of avoiding it. I would like to kick it off with an amusing but instructive list modelled after the "redneck" line of jokes. Can anyone help me add to this list? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You know you're a Version Control Avoider if..." • You have a bunch of files or folders with names like Engine_05212012_works_old[2].cpp • You've had to explain to your boss how you accidentally overwrote production code. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't consider myself terribly witty, but I think a little humor could be helpful in this situation. Any ideas for how to extend this list? [Bonus points if you can suggest a better moniker than "Version Control Avoider"]
Hmmm, I haven't read all the responses, so SOMEbody has probably already said this... you know you're a version control avoider if... YOU'RE FIRED !! Not very funny, but to the point. You shouldn't have to EXPLAIN version control to developers. If they don't use version control, they shouldn't have been hired as devs in the first place...
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MadBadger (that's quite a nickname!), Thanks again. Really. I don't mind harsh. I've learned to appreciate thoughtful criticism, and yours in particular is quite thought-provoking. But.. > "If I was doing this according to my own rules, I would not be preaching > I would be asking you a question then saying: Tell me more." ...and if you had, I would have told you that I was hired recently and invited to observe -- as a consultant, more or less -- and to provide suggestions as to how they could better achieve their goals (This, after they very nearly lost a year's worth of coding efforts). So after several months of asking questions and observing their methods, I'm ready to offer some feedback. I'm not "selling" in the sense that I won't get any kickbacks of any sort if they don't "buy". (However, in an ironic sort of way, the fact that you didn't ask for my backstory pre-sermon really illustrated to me in a poignant way that it doesn't matter if *I* think I'm listening -- if THEY don't think I'm listening, then I haven't done my prep work.) Anyway, you have given me some excellent thoughts to chew on. Thank you very much for your time. (Actually, I'd like to say "Please tell me more", but you've invested enough time already!)
Just out of curiosity (forgive me if I missed a few details in the many posts here), is the introduction of Version Control supported by the stakeholder(s)? In my experience, VC is the type of mechanism that can only be introduced if the stakeholders insist. Developers who don't already use it on their own must not actually be interested in it and probably won't be convinced by selling points presented from one of their own (assuming I understand your relationship to them). I would think the sales pitch to the stakeholder should be pretty straightforward - as far as they're concerned it's the same need as buying insurance for any aspect of the business. The mandate to introduce this MUST come from above. The questions of "Which VC platform?", "What branching model?" and "What best practices should we adopt?" are more of the issues that should be discussed among the development group (although still assuming some sort of management decision would be needed to make the outcome official).
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I've been programming since 1974. I have 3 terabytes of internal storage and another 3 terabytes available using external docking stations, so disk space is not a problem. As for remembering what I've done... true, but trust me, I know how to read my code and I do document my work reasonably well. However, as I am always open to changes and new things I will try tortoisesvn. My original post was mainly at addressing the problem of convincing someone to use a system. When I was first aware of spreadsheet software I never made any headway into using them. I got taught how to use Lotus 1-2-3, by a representative from Lotus, and now I use spreadsheets for a lot of things. It's like TDD, I read a lot about it and why to use it, but there isn't a lot of how to do TDD. For all I know I have been doing TDD for years, only it is just a different name.
I was the same, only much earlier in my hobby than you clearly are, I was hugely surprised at the benefits that I got from switching to VC from project back-ups. Far more than just back-ups and major/minor revision creation. I would also recommend Tortoise though I use TortoiseHg and would in general terms recommend DVCS over SVN style VCS but if you like Tortoise then it should be easy to switch between SVN and Mercurial, I only compared DVCS's in my article on this subject. M
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Not that I need to sell my co-workers a VCS, but this post is utterly brilliant and I can see it coming in useful for me many times in future when I do need to sell an idea to those I expect to resist. Thanks Mike.
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/re-start preach /harsh mode If I was doing this according to my own rules, I would not be preaching :-) I would be asking you a question then saying: Tell me more. Anywho... Knock knock: We have great double glazing on a 50% sales offer. You: So do I, it's free, bye. Knock, knock: Tell me about why you have double glazing? You: Because it keeps my house warm, my heating bills down, it doesn't have condensation all winter. Salesman: Tell me more You: Blah, blah Salesman: What if you could have a double glazed window that saved even more on your heating bills? You: How much would it save me and how much does it cost? He's in, you're talking, he hasn't sold you anything you didn't ask for. He hasn't said 'and it refelcts heat out in the summer to keep air-con bills down', you didn't ask for it. Selling is hard prep work and easy once you've prep'ed. Very tough otherwise, unless your audience is already begging for your product. Compare... Them: Our 'system' works good enough; why change it? <-- Their view You: even though it doesn't support diffing or branching or merging or coordinated collaboration <-- Your view You: It's not that they are resistant so much as they are unaware of the benefits of VCS <-- Your view of the benefits needs to be put into their words, what are their AFTER's? Yours are irrelevant. You: help them see some of the drawbacks of their current mechanisms <-- 'help them see', your view, not theirs You: not for my sake, but because I really believe it is going to help make THEIR lives easier <-- 'I really believe', what do they believe? Nothing else is relevent to a selling job Also, they are resistant, 'Our 'system' works good enough; why change it?', that's resistance. Sorry, harsh (really, sorry), but if they are at all resistant (and few folk like change so there will be resistance even if not expressed openly) the best you can hope for is 'we'll give it a try', which will only work for you if it shows THEM benefits THEY want very quickly which is tough when they are adopting new practices and behaviours, they'll miss the benefits because they are fighting with new ideas, concepts and an unfamiliar software tool (or command line). What will make them stick at it when it gets difficult to use a totally new system if they aren't doing it because they are bought in on their terms? Them: Our 's
9/10 times when browsing the Code Project forums, it ends up being a time waster (albeit an enjoyable one). Every now and then, I find something useful. This is more than useful. I will spend a great deal of time thinking about this. Thanks for taking the time to write that out Mike.
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Hmmm, I haven't read all the responses, so SOMEbody has probably already said this... you know you're a version control avoider if... YOU'RE FIRED !! Not very funny, but to the point. You shouldn't have to EXPLAIN version control to developers. If they don't use version control, they shouldn't have been hired as devs in the first place...
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They are actually a team of brilliant scientists who simply have never been formally trained in industry-standard programming techniques. That's why they hired me. I'm just here to help fill in a few gaps.
brilliant scientist is one thing. a developer who has AT LEAST read "code complete" is another :) Good luck to ya!
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You know you are a Version Control Avoider when, ....
You try to figure out why a lot of your source filenames start with "Z_...", or "ZZZZ_..." and so on and so on.
Also
You have folders named, "Bug Fix - Defect#84 - Sometimes Crashes".
:)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
Chris Meech wrote:
You have folders named, "Bug Fix - Defect#84 - Sometimes Crashes".
I actually have such folders. They contain project data that we need to reproduce a given problem. Ok, the description is usually more distinctive than "Sometimes Crashes". ;)
