Oregon Shooting
-
Mendor81 wrote:
.2nd amendment makes perfectly sense if you're able to own semiautomatics...
Yes, it does. Europeans don't need to own firearms because their liberties and rights have already been infringed, and they're used to living that way. Americans don't want to live that way.
Mendor81 wrote:
Or maybe he just was pissed at all the Christmas shoppers
Unfortunately, he appears to have killed himself, so we can only guess at why he did it. Given the fact that he only used 1/3 of the capacity of his magazine in a crowded mall, I suspect the victims were people he knows. Of course, assuming that the mainstream media is doing its usual bang-up job, he may not have used a semi-auto rifle at all. This is what journalists use to identify weapons: Journalist Weapon Identification Guide[^]
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Yes, it does. Europeans don't need to own firearms because their liberties and rights have already been infringed, and they're used to living that way. Americans don't want to live that way.
Nope as you can see it's more like we know the dangers of civilians owning arsenals and found a way of resolving our differences in a more peaceful way. 10k Deaths a year is a good sign that something is wrong in your country. IMO
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
-
Yes, it does. Europeans don't need to own firearms because their liberties and rights have already been infringed, and they're used to living that way. Americans don't want to live that way.
Nope as you can see it's more like we know the dangers of civilians owning arsenals and found a way of resolving our differences in a more peaceful way. 10k Deaths a year is a good sign that something is wrong in your country. IMO
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Versus 30k vehicle deaths / year and a comparable number of deaths by unintentional poisoning. Assuming "the prevention of accidental deaths" is your goal, restricting prescribed painkillers (causing over 90% of deaths by unintentional poisoning) could have a bigger effect. That could leave a bunch of people living in constant pain, but at least they're not dead. Or ban cars. But they're kind of useful. Intentionally wiping out all of mankind would prevent even more accidental deaths. Maybe I'll have to restate the goal.. New goal: balancing accidental deaths with the cost of reducing them. And then you have a problem of priorities, which is why the "gun control debate" will never be settled.
-
Mendor81 wrote:
.2nd amendment makes perfectly sense if you're able to own semiautomatics...
Yes, it does. Europeans don't need to own firearms because their liberties and rights have already been infringed, and they're used to living that way. Americans don't want to live that way.
Mendor81 wrote:
Or maybe he just was pissed at all the Christmas shoppers
Unfortunately, he appears to have killed himself, so we can only guess at why he did it. Given the fact that he only used 1/3 of the capacity of his magazine in a crowded mall, I suspect the victims were people he knows. Of course, assuming that the mainstream media is doing its usual bang-up job, he may not have used a semi-auto rifle at all. This is what journalists use to identify weapons: Journalist Weapon Identification Guide[^]
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997How are them FEMA camps coming along?
-
Yes, it does. Europeans don't need to own firearms because their liberties and rights have already been infringed, and they're used to living that way. Americans don't want to live that way.
Nope as you can see it's more like we know the dangers of civilians owning arsenals and found a way of resolving our differences in a more peaceful way. 10k Deaths a year is a good sign that something is wrong in your country. IMO
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
If the ground is churning where you're at it's because you just caused millions of innocent, unarmed victims of Europe's multiple 'purges' to all roll over in their mass graves. Because only the most ignorant amoung us would apply the phrase "resolving our differences in a more peaceful way" to earthlings I'll assume you are talking about the Europeans from a different planet because the Europeans on earth have a very long history of bringing death and destruction to millions of it's own citizenry - particularly when that citizenry has absolutely no way of fighting back. You have everything from the medieval style inquisitions up to the the systemic exterminations of the holocaust on through the recent genocide in Serbia. So after 1,000 years of slaughter and persecution of unarmed citizens don't try to sell me the bullshit that you resolve your differences "in a more peaceful way". Unless of course, you were making a joke and by a "more peaceful way" you actually meant "rest in peace".
-
Versus 30k vehicle deaths / year and a comparable number of deaths by unintentional poisoning. Assuming "the prevention of accidental deaths" is your goal, restricting prescribed painkillers (causing over 90% of deaths by unintentional poisoning) could have a bigger effect. That could leave a bunch of people living in constant pain, but at least they're not dead. Or ban cars. But they're kind of useful. Intentionally wiping out all of mankind would prevent even more accidental deaths. Maybe I'll have to restate the goal.. New goal: balancing accidental deaths with the cost of reducing them. And then you have a problem of priorities, which is why the "gun control debate" will never be settled.
Intentionally wiping out all of mankind would prevent even more accidental deaths.
Now that would be a definitive solution ;P Besides i don't think you can compare unintentional death's by accident (may that be by car accidents or poisoning or even household accidents) with premeditate murder. Gun's don't fire themselves, you have to pull the trigger and switch off safety. A car or any other "accident" is more likely to happen. And i don't think that as a normal person you have the same kind of NEED to posses a gun that you have to own a car, or painkiller for that matter
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
-
Versus 30k vehicle deaths / year and a comparable number of deaths by unintentional poisoning. Assuming "the prevention of accidental deaths" is your goal, restricting prescribed painkillers (causing over 90% of deaths by unintentional poisoning) could have a bigger effect. That could leave a bunch of people living in constant pain, but at least they're not dead. Or ban cars. But they're kind of useful. Intentionally wiping out all of mankind would prevent even more accidental deaths. Maybe I'll have to restate the goal.. New goal: balancing accidental deaths with the cost of reducing them. And then you have a problem of priorities, which is why the "gun control debate" will never be settled.
I don't think he was talking about accidental death. The difference is that in one case (cars, poisonning) it is mostly accidental death. In the other case (fire arms), it is mostly intentional death. One of the problem with the US is that there are so many fire arms around anyway, that removing them won't especially solve the problem of some people going to kill each other. Not for years at best. So I am not sure it makes sense anyway. But mostly, not having fire arms works as well, as is the case in most Europe. You might like them, but civilians don't need to have them. And we don't feel less free (or more) because of that. :) Freedom must have limits anyway, you know, things like don't kill or steal or forget to pay your taxes...
-
Mendor81 wrote:
.2nd amendment makes perfectly sense if you're able to own semiautomatics...
Yes, it does. Europeans don't need to own firearms because their liberties and rights have already been infringed, and they're used to living that way. Americans don't want to live that way.
Mendor81 wrote:
Or maybe he just was pissed at all the Christmas shoppers
Unfortunately, he appears to have killed himself, so we can only guess at why he did it. Given the fact that he only used 1/3 of the capacity of his magazine in a crowded mall, I suspect the victims were people he knows. Of course, assuming that the mainstream media is doing its usual bang-up job, he may not have used a semi-auto rifle at all. This is what journalists use to identify weapons: Journalist Weapon Identification Guide[^]
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I love that the actual Glock is on the left side. :laugh: Also: This made me think of this[^]...
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
-
If the ground is churning where you're at it's because you just caused millions of innocent, unarmed victims of Europe's multiple 'purges' to all roll over in their mass graves. Because only the most ignorant amoung us would apply the phrase "resolving our differences in a more peaceful way" to earthlings I'll assume you are talking about the Europeans from a different planet because the Europeans on earth have a very long history of bringing death and destruction to millions of it's own citizenry - particularly when that citizenry has absolutely no way of fighting back. You have everything from the medieval style inquisitions up to the the systemic exterminations of the holocaust on through the recent genocide in Serbia. So after 1,000 years of slaughter and persecution of unarmed citizens don't try to sell me the bullshit that you resolve your differences "in a more peaceful way". Unless of course, you were making a joke and by a "more peaceful way" you actually meant "rest in peace".
Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder. By the way how are the native Americans thinking about the genocide your settlers provoke? what about your civil war? Every nation on earth has a violent history, people are violent be nature. but that doesn't mean that modern day society should encourage that kind of behavior by keeping a right to something that has no other purpose then killing. If you say you need a gun for hunting, sport or what ever. Ok i can understand but what other purpose then bringing misery to relatives does a m16 have in civilian hands? Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer. it's more the other way around, more guns and the overwhelming culture of fear just makes a population more and more paranoid.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
-
If the ground is churning where you're at it's because you just caused millions of innocent, unarmed victims of Europe's multiple 'purges' to all roll over in their mass graves. Because only the most ignorant amoung us would apply the phrase "resolving our differences in a more peaceful way" to earthlings I'll assume you are talking about the Europeans from a different planet because the Europeans on earth have a very long history of bringing death and destruction to millions of it's own citizenry - particularly when that citizenry has absolutely no way of fighting back. You have everything from the medieval style inquisitions up to the the systemic exterminations of the holocaust on through the recent genocide in Serbia. So after 1,000 years of slaughter and persecution of unarmed citizens don't try to sell me the bullshit that you resolve your differences "in a more peaceful way". Unless of course, you were making a joke and by a "more peaceful way" you actually meant "rest in peace".
And in ancient Egypt, they used to have slaves. Medieval ages, or the holocaust were a different era, and to a certain extent, even Serbia is, at least a different context. Most were country that lived under some type of dictatorship (religious or other). And in this case, yes, civilians may have the use for guns. Though a lot of the massacres would not have happened, or not to the same extent if some of the civilians did not have guns to massacre the others. Certainly the massacres in Serbia are a recent thing, but they are not, and were even less a few yaers ago anything like a democracy as we have them in Europe and the US. At least by not having guns in Europe (I talk a about western Europe, the EU mostly) we have to sort our problem in other way than by using guns, most of the time. :) Not everything is perfect in our society, but we still don't need gun in the possession of most civilians; and we are not less free for it.
-
Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder. By the way how are the native Americans thinking about the genocide your settlers provoke? what about your civil war? Every nation on earth has a violent history, people are violent be nature. but that doesn't mean that modern day society should encourage that kind of behavior by keeping a right to something that has no other purpose then killing. If you say you need a gun for hunting, sport or what ever. Ok i can understand but what other purpose then bringing misery to relatives does a m16 have in civilian hands? Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer. it's more the other way around, more guns and the overwhelming culture of fear just makes a population more and more paranoid.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder.
I would never claim that we are less violent as I'm aware of American history. You made that claim for Europeans - it is a claim easily refuted by the facts.
Mendor81 wrote:
Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer.
I wasn't making any claim whatsoever for guns. I was only responding to the wildly ridiculous notions that Europeans have learned the ways of peace. After WWI in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'. It was a silver dollar coin that was to celebrate a new age of understanding among men. The war in Europe was so bad we were sure that it wouldn't happen again. They stopped making them in 1933 - in only 20 years Europe was in it's second world war. Don't fall for the illusion that a short time of peace means mankind has learned something. History is puncuated by these short times of peace - bookended by long seasons of absolute war and chaos. You're statement that "we've resolve our differences peacefully" means you've mistaken intermission for a new permanent condition. I lol at that.
-
I don't think he was talking about accidental death. The difference is that in one case (cars, poisonning) it is mostly accidental death. In the other case (fire arms), it is mostly intentional death. One of the problem with the US is that there are so many fire arms around anyway, that removing them won't especially solve the problem of some people going to kill each other. Not for years at best. So I am not sure it makes sense anyway. But mostly, not having fire arms works as well, as is the case in most Europe. You might like them, but civilians don't need to have them. And we don't feel less free (or more) because of that. :) Freedom must have limits anyway, you know, things like don't kill or steal or forget to pay your taxes...
He used the stats for "murder by firearm", but then the whole prevention thing is kind of pointless. As you say, that wouldn't solve the problem of some people going to kill each other. So I helpfully stepped in and changed his argument that something that at least makes sense, sort of like a "helpful straw man".
-
And in ancient Egypt, they used to have slaves. Medieval ages, or the holocaust were a different era, and to a certain extent, even Serbia is, at least a different context. Most were country that lived under some type of dictatorship (religious or other). And in this case, yes, civilians may have the use for guns. Though a lot of the massacres would not have happened, or not to the same extent if some of the civilians did not have guns to massacre the others. Certainly the massacres in Serbia are a recent thing, but they are not, and were even less a few yaers ago anything like a democracy as we have them in Europe and the US. At least by not having guns in Europe (I talk a about western Europe, the EU mostly) we have to sort our problem in other way than by using guns, most of the time. :) Not everything is perfect in our society, but we still don't need gun in the possession of most civilians; and we are not less free for it.
-
Mendor81 wrote:
Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder.
I would never claim that we are less violent as I'm aware of American history. You made that claim for Europeans - it is a claim easily refuted by the facts.
Mendor81 wrote:
Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer.
I wasn't making any claim whatsoever for guns. I was only responding to the wildly ridiculous notions that Europeans have learned the ways of peace. After WWI in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'. It was a silver dollar coin that was to celebrate a new age of understanding among men. The war in Europe was so bad we were sure that it wouldn't happen again. They stopped making them in 1933 - in only 20 years Europe was in it's second world war. Don't fall for the illusion that a short time of peace means mankind has learned something. History is puncuated by these short times of peace - bookended by long seasons of absolute war and chaos. You're statement that "we've resolve our differences peacefully" means you've mistaken intermission for a new permanent condition. I lol at that.
You're statement that "we've resolve our differences peacefully" means you've mistaken intermission for a new permanent condition.
You do realize that my statement was regarding civilian disputes inside a country not between nations which fight with military?
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
-
Link[^] Yeah..2nd amendment makes perfectly sense if you're able to own semiautomatics... Or maybe he just was pissed at all the Christmas shoppers
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
I have never went on a killing spree and murdered a bunch of people, JSOP, how about you?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
-
I have never went on a killing spree and murdered a bunch of people, JSOP, how about you?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
me neither. But i don't need a gun to feel safe. Do you own one? if so why? does it really make you feel safe? and what would you use it for if you use it?
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
-
Intentionally wiping out all of mankind would prevent even more accidental deaths.
Now that would be a definitive solution ;P Besides i don't think you can compare unintentional death's by accident (may that be by car accidents or poisoning or even household accidents) with premeditate murder. Gun's don't fire themselves, you have to pull the trigger and switch off safety. A car or any other "accident" is more likely to happen. And i don't think that as a normal person you have the same kind of NEED to posses a gun that you have to own a car, or painkiller for that matter
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
Besides i don't think you can compare unintentional death's by accident (may that be by car accidents or poisoning or even household accidents) with premeditate murder.
Sure you can. They have an element in common: someone dies. And there are difference, as is usually the case with things being compared. One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved. Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building. Reason 2: criminals ignore the rules anyway, an old an tired argument I know, but it's true. Case in point: Brazil. So what's the point? And what is your goal, exactly?
-
me neither. But i don't need a gun to feel safe. Do you own one? if so why? does it really make you feel safe? and what would you use it for if you use it?
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
I don't think a gun or not having a gun adds to any feeling of security I may have, I still leave me front door unlocked sometimes because I forget. That said, in the middle of the night, robberies do occur and in the decision between leaving a potential witness against an unlawful, armed entry (which is a big time, multi-year felony) and leaving a corpse, there is a liklihood of the latter. And while my prowess with a weapon matches my prowess as an NFL Quarterback, I would at least like to have the option to have a parlais with the offender before my fate is sealed. Plus I need to be prepared for other scenarios, Zombie Apocalypse wear society is run by the emotional beautiful people that kill the strong to feed the weak (they are scarier than the zombies), Red Dawn Scenario, Independence Day Scenario, Revolution Scenario, etc. The real cool thing about being free and having rights, is that I don't have to justify my desire
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
-
Mendor81 wrote:
Besides i don't think you can compare unintentional death's by accident (may that be by car accidents or poisoning or even household accidents) with premeditate murder.
Sure you can. They have an element in common: someone dies. And there are difference, as is usually the case with things being compared. One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved. Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building. Reason 2: criminals ignore the rules anyway, an old an tired argument I know, but it's true. Case in point: Brazil. So what's the point? And what is your goal, exactly?
One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved.
Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building.That is true, but i give you a situation: in which case it's more likely to get killed/shoot someone (depending on which side you are) A man in the US with guns comes home finds his wife cheating with another man, he goes for the gun and shoots. because he's angry and temporary blinded by jealousy and hate. Can happen to everybody. In europe he has no gun at home, so how to channel this temporary hate and rage? He would probably beat the shit out of the guy, definitly swear and yell the hell out of but not necessarly end in death. my point is that given the legal right to own a weapon increases the possibility of crime happening in your own environment. The easier the access to something the more likely it is to happen.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
-
I don't think he was talking about accidental death. The difference is that in one case (cars, poisonning) it is mostly accidental death. In the other case (fire arms), it is mostly intentional death. One of the problem with the US is that there are so many fire arms around anyway, that removing them won't especially solve the problem of some people going to kill each other. Not for years at best. So I am not sure it makes sense anyway. But mostly, not having fire arms works as well, as is the case in most Europe. You might like them, but civilians don't need to have them. And we don't feel less free (or more) because of that. :) Freedom must have limits anyway, you know, things like don't kill or steal or forget to pay your taxes...
Elrond wrote:
The difference is that in one case (cars, poisoning) it is mostly accidental death. In the other case (fire arms), it is mostly intentional death.
But with baseball bats, it's ALWAYS intentional.
Elrond wrote:
But mostly, not having fire arms works as well, as is the case in most Europe. You might like them, but civilians don't need to have them. :)
You may think you don't need firearms, but you're not us, so don't get all holier-than-thou where American's attitudes where firearms are concerned. You simply don't have the same history we do.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I don't think a gun or not having a gun adds to any feeling of security I may have, I still leave me front door unlocked sometimes because I forget. That said, in the middle of the night, robberies do occur and in the decision between leaving a potential witness against an unlawful, armed entry (which is a big time, multi-year felony) and leaving a corpse, there is a liklihood of the latter. And while my prowess with a weapon matches my prowess as an NFL Quarterback, I would at least like to have the option to have a parlais with the offender before my fate is sealed. Plus I need to be prepared for other scenarios, Zombie Apocalypse wear society is run by the emotional beautiful people that kill the strong to feed the weak (they are scarier than the zombies), Red Dawn Scenario, Independence Day Scenario, Revolution Scenario, etc. The real cool thing about being free and having rights, is that I don't have to justify my desire
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
What do you have alarms and police for? We have robberies over here as well and in plain daylight. happened to a neighbor of mine. nobody got killed in the process. Neither he or i feel the need to go out and buy a gun. We did install alarms that same week though.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
