Terrible story unfolding...
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I am in the UK - if I was going to go postal I wouldn't have a clue where to get hold of a gun. If I was in the USA I daresay I could get hold of a gun very easily. Gun control is the only solution
But in order to do so, you would have to buy one illegally. You then become a criminal, and fall into the "nature of that ilk" category. Why should *legal* gun owners be punished for something you did with an *illegally* purchased gun?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Slacker007 wrote:
security guard stations and full bag checks.
Have fun implementing that at every single school in the entire country... :doh:
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Colin Mullikin wrote:
Slacker007 wrote:
security guard stations and full bag checks.
Have fun implementing that at every single school in the entire country... :doh:
It's depressingly common at urban schools already; strangely enough they still have major problems with contraband inside; and in the case of a lunatic like this the guard at the door would just be the first one killed.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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If you make access to guns extremely difficult it will be very difficult for somebody who just flips to get hold of one and use one. You won't entirely prevent pre-meditated, planned, murder spress but it will minimise the number of nutters flipping and going bullet happy in public places.
RugbyLeague wrote:
If you make access to guns extremely difficult it will be very difficult for somebody who just flips to get hold of one and use one.
You won't entirely prevent pre-meditated, planned, murder spress but it will minimise the number of nutters flipping and going bullet happy in public places.The number of "nutters" is significantly lower than premeditating murderers. Of course, premeditating killers don't generally go off on everyone around them either. They have a specific person in mind, and they kill that person. It stops there. In very rare cases, the murderer then turns the weapon on spectators (like in this case - the guy came to the school to kill his mother, and most of the kids killed were in her classroom). Your arguments are extremely weak.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Slacker007 wrote:
security guard stations and full bag checks.
Have fun implementing that at every single school in the entire country... :doh:
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Apparently you haven't read the posts or looked at the links that people have provided that talk about this exact thing happening in China...
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
I have read them - I don't see how it validates easy access to guns in the USA.
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RugbyLeague wrote:
If you make access to guns extremely difficult it will be very difficult for somebody who just flips to get hold of one and use one.
You won't entirely prevent pre-meditated, planned, murder spress but it will minimise the number of nutters flipping and going bullet happy in public places.The number of "nutters" is significantly lower than premeditating murderers. Of course, premeditating killers don't generally go off on everyone around them either. They have a specific person in mind, and they kill that person. It stops there. In very rare cases, the murderer then turns the weapon on spectators (like in this case - the guy came to the school to kill his mother, and most of the kids killed were in her classroom). Your arguments are extremely weak.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997So you are advocating proper target training?
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Nope, won't work. They outlawed drugs, and you can get them easily. They outlawed driving under the influence, yet people can buy both cars and booze. You can make all the laws you want, but the bad guys are going to keep breaking them. In this particular instance, a school is considered a "gun-free zone" (federal law). BY LAW, you cannot bring a gun into a school. He also could not legally carry a gun in Connecticut because he wasn't 21. When people are intent on mayhem, "the law" is not the thing they worry about the most. "The law" is merely an instrument the government uses to put people in jail. The problem with a mass shooting is that the perp is likely to take his own life AFTER he commits the crime. You can't arrest them at point, can you? So, the solution isn't gun control. The solution isn't arming the teachers. The solution isn't trying to prevent guns from entering school premises. The best solution is remote decentralized teaching/learning. The kids are safer, but they don't learn other essential skills. Beyond that, this only addresses the schools. What about the malls, or community swimming pools, or the county fair? The knee-jerk reaction to put more control on guns is simply not plausible.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The best solution is remote decentralized teaching/learning. The kids are safer, but they don't learn other essential skills.
But maybe that can be solved - simply make those skills non-essential. I mean fuck interaction with other humans. Why hasn't that been recognized as a problem and treated accordingly (ie solved) yet? It's a massive drain of time and energy, and therefore money.
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So you are advocating proper target training?
I'm advocating remote decentralized teaching/learning.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Apparently you haven't read the posts or looked at the links that people have provided that talk about this exact thing happening in China...
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Facts aren't important to the anti-gun crowd.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
It was breaking news just as I was going out earlier. Reports of possibly one man killed. Just got back to find out an entire class of children shot dead. Unbelievable.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
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I am in the UK - if I was going to go postal I wouldn't have a clue where to get hold of a gun. If I was in the USA I daresay I could get hold of a gun very easily. Gun control is the only solution
RugbyLeague wrote:
Gun control is the only solution
Yeah sure: Winnenden school shooting[^]. [edit] And how could I forget Mr Breivik[^]
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Nope, won't work. They outlawed drugs, and you can get them easily. They outlawed driving under the influence, yet people can buy both cars and booze. You can make all the laws you want, but the bad guys are going to keep breaking them. In this particular instance, a school is considered a "gun-free zone" (federal law). BY LAW, you cannot bring a gun into a school. He also could not legally carry a gun in Connecticut because he wasn't 21. When people are intent on mayhem, "the law" is not the thing they worry about the most. "The law" is merely an instrument the government uses to put people in jail. The problem with a mass shooting is that the perp is likely to take his own life AFTER he commits the crime. You can't arrest them at point, can you? So, the solution isn't gun control. The solution isn't arming the teachers. The solution isn't trying to prevent guns from entering school premises. The best solution is remote decentralized teaching/learning. The kids are safer, but they don't learn other essential skills. Beyond that, this only addresses the schools. What about the malls, or community swimming pools, or the county fair? The knee-jerk reaction to put more control on guns is simply not plausible.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The solution isn't arming the teachers.
Maybye not, but statistics show that states with CCW's have lower crime rates. One armed person could have stopped this guy before he got to that classroom.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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I was just on a gun forum, and one of the guys there knows someone that has kids in that school who doesn't know yet if their kids are okay. The sad part is that there is no foolproof method for keeping kids safe in schools, short of having every student and teacher remote-in from home, essentially turning the school into a massive data center. At that point, kids won't be able to learn social interaction skills *at all*, which is part of what makes schools so valuable.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997You could try a society that isn't awash with guns. Works everywhere else in the world ( not ALL the time, but often enough to make these sort of events extremely rare, I bet the US has more acts of random violence in schools than the rest of the world combined )
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I am in the UK - if I was going to go postal I wouldn't have a clue where to get hold of a gun. If I was in the USA I daresay I could get hold of a gun very easily. Gun control is the only solution
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Nope, won't work. They outlawed drugs, and you can get them easily. They outlawed driving under the influence, yet people can buy both cars and booze. You can make all the laws you want, but the bad guys are going to keep breaking them. In this particular instance, a school is considered a "gun-free zone" (federal law). BY LAW, you cannot bring a gun into a school. He also could not legally carry a gun in Connecticut because he wasn't 21. When people are intent on mayhem, "the law" is not the thing they worry about the most. "The law" is merely an instrument the government uses to put people in jail. The problem with a mass shooting is that the perp is likely to take his own life AFTER he commits the crime. You can't arrest them at point, can you? So, the solution isn't gun control. The solution isn't arming the teachers. The solution isn't trying to prevent guns from entering school premises. The best solution is remote decentralized teaching/learning. The kids are safer, but they don't learn other essential skills. Beyond that, this only addresses the schools. What about the malls, or community swimming pools, or the county fair? The knee-jerk reaction to put more control on guns is simply not plausible.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997While I agree on your analysis, I believe your solution is a bit narrow and symptomatic for the US of today. I believe the fundamental problem is cultural. My wife sent me a link[^] that while otherwise unrelated describes the cultural change very well. Do I have a solution? Not really. Your legal system is fucked up and your journalists should probably be done away with. But a feasible solution I don't have.
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
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Facts aren't important to the anti-gun crowd.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Neither to the pro-gun crowd... except for their "freedom" to have one. I think that, right now, it's pretty easy to have someone to attack you with a gun or a knife (well, not THAT easy, but we are in context right here)... why don't regulate at least the most dangerous of them? But, hey, I'm from México... so I only care about this because I'm a father and the story is freakin painful... so, have the laws that you want/deserve.
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That's true for the UK. But Mexico also has very restrictive gun laws and getting a gun there is said to be not difficult at all. It's easy to sit in a country where most people abide by the law and talk about banning guns for those who have to live among a high number of criminals.
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RugbyLeague wrote:
Gun control is the only solution
Yeah sure: Winnenden school shooting[^]. [edit] And how could I forget Mr Breivik[^]
You seem to be under the impression that guns should be available because other people go beserk with guns