New development desktop...
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Would you go with Win 7 or 8? ...my main dev target is desktop applications (C++/Java)... ...I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily.
For swapping drives, just throw something like this into your machine to get some hot swap front bays: http://www.ipcdirect.net/servlet/Categories?category=Storage+Sub+System%3A3+Bays+Desktop[^] Or this: http://www.vantecusa.com/en/product/view_detail/550[^] Etc...
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Would you go with Win 7 or 8? ...my main dev target is desktop applications (C++/Java)... ...I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily.
Albert Holguin wrote:
I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily
There are a ton of options available. One of the units that I got a while ago that I quite like for convenience is from Antec: Antec Bay YouTube review[^] The advantage of this bay is that you can put any drive in it without needing to swap the drives into different mounting trays so it makes it easy to use multiple different drives in the same bay. The other alternatives normally have some tray you have to first mount the drive to and then slide the tray in - those models are less convenient if you're trying to swap out multiple drives (unless of course you buy multiple trays), but some of those models include additional fans, a handle for the tray for convenience and portability, a nicer "finished" look (so you don't see a drive sticking out of your case; not an issue for my Antec P180 case since it has a door covering all of the front bays), a keylock mechanism, and a tray design that provides some protection to your drive if your travelling with it. I've used the more traditional removable bay/tray units before and like them, but it really depends on how you plan to use it - that's why I figured I'd pass on info on the Antec unit. Some decent StarTech bays (see model #DRW150SASBK) can be found here[^] One last tip - be careful to get a unit that supports good cooling. It doesn't need to have a fan as long as it's designed well and with the proper materials. If getting a unit with a fan be prepared to replace it - they often use cheap fans that start to make a lot of noise after a year or so.
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Apple is obviously not perfect but they win a ton of design, quality and customer satisfaction awards. More than any other computer maker or consumer electronics maker I can think of. Every Apple product I've owned has been rock solid. I wish I could say that of every other product I've owned.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Apple is obviously not perfect but they win a ton of design, quality and customer satisfaction awards. More than any other computer maker or consumer electronics maker I can think of.
Yeah, but I am different. Apple's OSX doesn't cut it, for me. Closed, opaque, nothing for a developer. IMO.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Every Apple product I've owned has been rock solid.
So is my desktop running Kubuntu 11.10, which I've built from parts. It's also a powerhouse (eight physical cores, 16 GB RAM), way more powerful than whatever Apple I could've bought for the same money, and the desktop eye candy is richer than what OSX provides.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Apple is obviously not perfect but they win a ton of design, quality and customer satisfaction awards. More than any other computer maker or consumer electronics maker I can think of.
Yeah, but I am different. Apple's OSX doesn't cut it, for me. Closed, opaque, nothing for a developer. IMO.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Every Apple product I've owned has been rock solid.
So is my desktop running Kubuntu 11.10, which I've built from parts. It's also a powerhouse (eight physical cores, 16 GB RAM), way more powerful than whatever Apple I could've bought for the same money, and the desktop eye candy is richer than what OSX provides.
Florin Jurcovici wrote:
Apple's OSX doesn't cut it, for me. Closed, opaque, nothing for a developer.
The OP is a Windows dev. At the OS level Windows is just as closed as OSX.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Would you go with Win 7 or 8? ...my main dev target is desktop applications (C++/Java)... ...I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily.
I can't speak for anyone else here but in my case 7. I tried Win8 Pro for awhile (after evaluating all the Previews) and couldn't find a single thing about it that enhanced my development environment. Nada. If anything it broke a couple of things I needed. I won't speak to its viability as a tablet O/S but for a desktop (development system) it offers nothing UNLESS you plan to write for the "Modern" interface. -CB
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I can't speak for anyone else here but in my case 7. I tried Win8 Pro for awhile (after evaluating all the Previews) and couldn't find a single thing about it that enhanced my development environment. Nada. If anything it broke a couple of things I needed. I won't speak to its viability as a tablet O/S but for a desktop (development system) it offers nothing UNLESS you plan to write for the "Modern" interface. -CB
Yeah, not really planning on writing Metro apps any time soon... thanks for you input.
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Albert Holguin wrote:
I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily
There are a ton of options available. One of the units that I got a while ago that I quite like for convenience is from Antec: Antec Bay YouTube review[^] The advantage of this bay is that you can put any drive in it without needing to swap the drives into different mounting trays so it makes it easy to use multiple different drives in the same bay. The other alternatives normally have some tray you have to first mount the drive to and then slide the tray in - those models are less convenient if you're trying to swap out multiple drives (unless of course you buy multiple trays), but some of those models include additional fans, a handle for the tray for convenience and portability, a nicer "finished" look (so you don't see a drive sticking out of your case; not an issue for my Antec P180 case since it has a door covering all of the front bays), a keylock mechanism, and a tray design that provides some protection to your drive if your travelling with it. I've used the more traditional removable bay/tray units before and like them, but it really depends on how you plan to use it - that's why I figured I'd pass on info on the Antec unit. Some decent StarTech bays (see model #DRW150SASBK) can be found here[^] One last tip - be careful to get a unit that supports good cooling. It doesn't need to have a fan as long as it's designed well and with the proper materials. If getting a unit with a fan be prepared to replace it - they often use cheap fans that start to make a lot of noise after a year or so.
Thanks for the suggestions... VERY helpful! ...thanks! :-D
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For swapping drives, just throw something like this into your machine to get some hot swap front bays: http://www.ipcdirect.net/servlet/Categories?category=Storage+Sub+System%3A3+Bays+Desktop[^] Or this: http://www.vantecusa.com/en/product/view_detail/550[^] Etc...
That's probably what I'll end up doing... thanks a lot for the links and feedback! :-D
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Would you go with Win 7 or 8? ...my main dev target is desktop applications (C++/Java)... ...I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily.
Albert Holguin wrote:
Would you go with Win 7 or 8?
I'd prefer to use whichever was my target platform as the code will be the most stable on the OS it was developed under. I don't have any time on a Win8 box, so all things being equal, I'd opt for Win7, simply because I prefer to stick to tools I already know how to use well.
Albert Holguin wrote:
easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily
Get one with USB3 and use a USB3 external drive. Its nearly as fast as SATA. If SATA performance is critical, there's a lot of removeable drive bay options that fit in a standard 5.25" optical bay, some even use enclosures that include USB2 ports on them for use as an external USB2 drive. If I recall, ineo, StarTech, and others make the USB2 kind.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Albert Holguin wrote:
Would you go with Win 7 or 8?
I'd prefer to use whichever was my target platform as the code will be the most stable on the OS it was developed under. I don't have any time on a Win8 box, so all things being equal, I'd opt for Win7, simply because I prefer to stick to tools I already know how to use well.
Albert Holguin wrote:
easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily
Get one with USB3 and use a USB3 external drive. Its nearly as fast as SATA. If SATA performance is critical, there's a lot of removeable drive bay options that fit in a standard 5.25" optical bay, some even use enclosures that include USB2 ports on them for use as an external USB2 drive. If I recall, ineo, StarTech, and others make the USB2 kind.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
My target is really all Windows desktops from XP until Windows 8. I do have various test machines though so my real concern is all my development tools working properly and having an environment I can develop in well. Right now my main dev desktop is an XP machine because... well, it just works. It's time for an upgrade though... :-D
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Would you go with Win 7 or 8? ...my main dev target is desktop applications (C++/Java)... ...I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily.
I'm actually running server 2012 on a precision t6700 [^]. Very easy to swap drives with it, they are all ejected through the front of the case. No need to open it, just remove the front cover. Room for 4 drives this way through a full blown power edge raid controller. And since I'm doing a good bit of sharepoint development on a number of different versions, I make a lot of use of hyper-v to vm all the different parts of my dev farms. Works well for me so far!
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My target is really all Windows desktops from XP until Windows 8. I do have various test machines though so my real concern is all my development tools working properly and having an environment I can develop in well. Right now my main dev desktop is an XP machine because... well, it just works. It's time for an upgrade though... :-D
I totally hear you on still using XP, I'm still using it at home too :). Do your customers have a preferred OS, or one they'll be moving to soon? If so, I'd make that my dev OS, otherwise I'd go Win8 for that set of targets. I don't think customers will be very forgiving if a new app doesn't work spectacularily under it, but they might forgive rough spots on older OSs. As for the time, I've always felt time spent getting familiar with my customers' environment to be well spent, so I never really factor it in other than schedule allowances.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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You get what you pay for.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
I think that saying should be "You don't get what you don't pay for" because you don't always get what you do pay for.
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Would you go with Win 7 or 8? ...my main dev target is desktop applications (C++/Java)... ...I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily.
I've been programming on Windows 8 Pro for a few weeks now. After some personalization, I have to say, I love it... (But not using the start screen or any of that metro crap) Windows 8 is really really good. Fast. Windows is still Windows: you make it what you want, and it just works. Did I mention it's fast?? Visual Studio 2008 starts faster than opening notepad in Windows 7.
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Apple is obviously not perfect but they win a ton of design, quality and customer satisfaction awards. More than any other computer maker or consumer electronics maker I can think of. Every Apple product I've owned has been rock solid. I wish I could say that of every other product I've owned.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
I guess you never owned any of the early Mac's. Or tried to get your Mac to interoperate reliably with a non-Apple Wi-Fi router. Or ever wanted to migrate your music library to some other device. Or relied on Apple time machine to make reliable back ups. Or... I don't hate Apple, I own two iPhone's and a Macbook pro, I also own one Windows laptop an two Windows desktops. I've actually had less trouble with my Windows systems then I have had with my Apple stuff. The myth that Apple products are "rock solid" is just that -- a myth.
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I guess you never owned any of the early Mac's. Or tried to get your Mac to interoperate reliably with a non-Apple Wi-Fi router. Or ever wanted to migrate your music library to some other device. Or relied on Apple time machine to make reliable back ups. Or... I don't hate Apple, I own two iPhone's and a Macbook pro, I also own one Windows laptop an two Windows desktops. I've actually had less trouble with my Windows systems then I have had with my Apple stuff. The myth that Apple products are "rock solid" is just that -- a myth.
TRK3 wrote:
I guess you never owned any of the early Mac's.
True, I started with Intel Macs.
TRK3 wrote:
Or tried to get your Mac to interoperate reliably with a non-Apple Wi-Fi router.
Ummmm.... it's works just fine and was as easy (or easier) to setup than Windows and Linux. In fact, I've never owned an Apple router.
TRK3 wrote:
Or ever wanted to migrate your music library to some other device.
My music library (currently in iTunes) is 95% MP3. The remainder is AAC which are easily converted. What's the problem?
TRK3 wrote:
Or relied on Apple time machine to make reliable back ups.
The one and only time I've required Time Machine (for a full restore) it worked just fine.
TRK3 wrote:
I've actually had less trouble with my Windows systems then I have had with my Apple stuff.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. My experience has been exactly the opposite.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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I've been programming on Windows 8 Pro for a few weeks now. After some personalization, I have to say, I love it... (But not using the start screen or any of that metro crap) Windows 8 is really really good. Fast. Windows is still Windows: you make it what you want, and it just works. Did I mention it's fast?? Visual Studio 2008 starts faster than opening notepad in Windows 7.
VisualStudio 2008 is still my main dev workhorse... so I'm glad to hear it works well in Win8 :thumbsup:
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I totally hear you on still using XP, I'm still using it at home too :). Do your customers have a preferred OS, or one they'll be moving to soon? If so, I'd make that my dev OS, otherwise I'd go Win8 for that set of targets. I don't think customers will be very forgiving if a new app doesn't work spectacularily under it, but they might forgive rough spots on older OSs. As for the time, I've always felt time spent getting familiar with my customers' environment to be well spent, so I never really factor it in other than schedule allowances.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
Problem with customers is they all want something different... and they all want it to work perfectly for them. X| ...Guess it keeps us well employed... :rolleyes:
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TRK3 wrote:
I guess you never owned any of the early Mac's.
True, I started with Intel Macs.
TRK3 wrote:
Or tried to get your Mac to interoperate reliably with a non-Apple Wi-Fi router.
Ummmm.... it's works just fine and was as easy (or easier) to setup than Windows and Linux. In fact, I've never owned an Apple router.
TRK3 wrote:
Or ever wanted to migrate your music library to some other device.
My music library (currently in iTunes) is 95% MP3. The remainder is AAC which are easily converted. What's the problem?
TRK3 wrote:
Or relied on Apple time machine to make reliable back ups.
The one and only time I've required Time Machine (for a full restore) it worked just fine.
TRK3 wrote:
I've actually had less trouble with my Windows systems then I have had with my Apple stuff.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. My experience has been exactly the opposite.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
My Experience: The early Mac's were horrible -- if you didn't reboot every couple of hours they would hang. Back then you could go a whole day before you needed to reboot your windows machine. [We've come a long way -- I never feel compelled to reboot either anymore.] My current Macbook Pro kept dropping it's WiFi connection with two different routers (no other device had a problem) and nothing would fix it until I bought the bullet and purchased an Apple router. No idea what the problem was, but it was cheaper just to pay the money then to keep trying to debug it. iTunes does some funny things with multiple accounts and/or locations. I've found it easier to create my music collection using non-Apple software and import the files into iTunes rather than trying to go the other way around (probably works fine now, but I haven't bothered to try). The one time I tried to restore a file from Time Machine it was unable to recover the supposedly backed up file. I couldn't tell what went wrong. I've since adopted a second backup scheme for my critical files -- and it works fine. Your experience was your experience, mine was mine -- no disagreement. In fact, since Apple has more control over the hardware and software, I'd expect the experience ought to be rock-solid. Maybe it's just the fact that I expect Apple to be rock solid, and never expect a pc to work the first time without some effort. It's always a big disappointment for me when an Apple system doesn't work flawlessly and it's always a pleasant surprise when a windows pc does... So maybe the Apple failures just stand out more in my mind. Also, when things do go wrong, I know my way around a windows system a little better, so it's easier for me to fix.
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Albert Holguin wrote:
easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Even in china the best gift is the one which is made by your kids.
Explains why Apple products are famous over there.