Office layouts
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No one has mentioned bookcases, which don't fit well in an open plan. I know, books are passe these days, but I still keep a few for reference. So, at least some sort of cubicle wall is needed. Regarding being in the zone, I am able to ignore almost anything (just ask my wife) to concentrate on work. Noise doesn't bother me as long as it isn't intelligent noise (which means most people talking are no distraction). My kids need headphones, which seem to work. I am distracted though by anyone staring at me while I try to work. And last but not least, no one has mentioned passing gas, for which a private office is needed, preferably in a corner with a separate air flow system and a window.
Passing gas is the only benefit of open plan offices. Why should I suffer alone?
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This guy is hilarious. Probably comes from a six sigma, "measure everything" background. If you've been in software for more than 15 minutes, you'd know that the major dilemma of the last 20 years is how the hell to "measure the output of the developers".
Rodney Smith wrote:
If you've been in software for more than 15 minutes, you'd know that the major dilemma of the last 20 years is how the hell to "measure the output of the developers".
I agree 100%, I used to work at a place that wanted us to record how long it took to develop every subroutine so they could estimate how long it would take to write the next system. In reality, they probably wanted metrics so they could beat on you if they thought another person had taken less time to write a similar (but not the same) subroutine. One office layout they would have loved would have been the Star Trek bridge layout. The manager sitting in the center seat and being able to rotate and observe the contents of anyone's screens at any time. We used to be told that the manager should be able to immediately recognize the contents of your screen and its relevance to the project at hand, or you better be able to do some fast talking to explain it.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
Offices are not expensive if the company values productivity of its workers. Any company that implements open-plan offices either (1) believes open-plan improves productivity, or (2) doesn't expect top-rate work from its employees, preferring instead the thousand-monkeys-at-a-typewriter approach to coding. Companies will blather all kinds of platitudes in support of spending as little as possible on office space; they're startups and "can't afford it", "everybody knows" that open plan is productive, they have to "co-locate their teams" (a half-read harvard business review meme). Bell Telephone Labs in the Chicago area had an office plan that was a circle of closed-off offices around a common meeting area or lab space. Their office building replicated this basic plan on an epic scale. This is my personal favorite office layout. It provides quiet and privacy but also facilitates team interaction. I've seen this plan replicated, for instance at the new CS building at the University of Washington. When I was starting my career, I loved cubicles because you could hear what everybody was doing. As I became more senior and had to solve harder problems, I came to hate cubicles, because you could hear what everybody was doing. Completely open office spaces terrify me. I don't want to know if my colleague picks their nose or ate beans for lunch. I hate having to reserve a conference room for a brief conversation to avoid distracting the whole team. And I hate sitting elbow-to-elbow with a dozen smart people and working silently like a freaking robot rather than interacting. Completely open offices foster isolation, not communication. In my humble opinion, enough wall that you aren't staring right into someone's face is the minimum acceptable privacy. Open offices where I have worked did some stuff to facilitate more communication. We had a local IRC server, and had a channel for general conversations. You could check it out when you wanted a brief disctraction. The IRC client would notify you if your name was mentioned. This worked for not-too-hard conversations, but it was not a good way to solve difficult problems, because only the senior people ever contributed. On the plus side, status meetings only took 60 seconds; team members would prepare their status info and dump it onto the IRC channel. Then only if there was something to talk about did we hold a conversation. It disposed of a tedious meeting. When I'm interviewing, I look at the office layout as a proxy for how much the company values its employ
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This guy is hilarious. Probably comes from a six sigma, "measure everything" background. If you've been in software for more than 15 minutes, you'd know that the major dilemma of the last 20 years is how the hell to "measure the output of the developers".
Rodney Smith wrote:
This guy is hilarious.
Thank you, I've been known to tell a joke or two :laugh: This was in relation to private office vs open office layout. While I find it quite interesting to discuss my work, other peoples work, designs and architecture etc. I know for a fact that I'm most productive when I can work uninterrupted for several hours at a time - something that is just not possible in an open office environment.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
Generally I have found people are more productive if they are not in a crowd. Too much socialization where I am. When you isolate programmers seem to get more work done.
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No one has mentioned bookcases, which don't fit well in an open plan. I know, books are passe these days, but I still keep a few for reference. So, at least some sort of cubicle wall is needed. Regarding being in the zone, I am able to ignore almost anything (just ask my wife) to concentrate on work. Noise doesn't bother me as long as it isn't intelligent noise (which means most people talking are no distraction). My kids need headphones, which seem to work. I am distracted though by anyone staring at me while I try to work. And last but not least, no one has mentioned passing gas, for which a private office is needed, preferably in a corner with a separate air flow system and a window.
We have an air lock in which occasionally someone has passed gas. :~ Being an air lock, the doors can't be left open for any length of time so the smell stays for quite a long time.
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Rodney Smith wrote:
This guy is hilarious.
Thank you, I've been known to tell a joke or two :laugh: This was in relation to private office vs open office layout. While I find it quite interesting to discuss my work, other peoples work, designs and architecture etc. I know for a fact that I'm most productive when I can work uninterrupted for several hours at a time - something that is just not possible in an open office environment.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
I appreciate your gracious attitude, I didn't mean to be demeaning with my "this guy is hilarious" comment. We all know that having concrete metrics for how to measure developers is the holy grail for managers. Most developers will tell you that the current way for managers to gauge any given individual is to ask his peers about his performance. Yep, here we are in 2013 and that's the state of the art measurement tactic. The magical dashboard (aka your backlog/scrum board/ etc) where I can go and see who the rockstars are and who the dogs are is misleading, at best. Of course, in the "real" world, revenue is the ultimate measuring stick. Doesn't quite explain why bad software makes so much money and world class software is free.
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I appreciate your gracious attitude, I didn't mean to be demeaning with my "this guy is hilarious" comment. We all know that having concrete metrics for how to measure developers is the holy grail for managers. Most developers will tell you that the current way for managers to gauge any given individual is to ask his peers about his performance. Yep, here we are in 2013 and that's the state of the art measurement tactic. The magical dashboard (aka your backlog/scrum board/ etc) where I can go and see who the rockstars are and who the dogs are is misleading, at best. Of course, in the "real" world, revenue is the ultimate measuring stick. Doesn't quite explain why bad software makes so much money and world class software is free.
hotrod5000 wrote:
Doesn't quite explain why bad software makes so much money and world class software is free.
If you're an expert at something, the only people who will understand you are other experts, so to satisfy your urge to do something worth doing you head for the open source community ... which in the end ensures that somebody else makes money based on your work ...
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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I appreciate your gracious attitude, I didn't mean to be demeaning with my "this guy is hilarious" comment. We all know that having concrete metrics for how to measure developers is the holy grail for managers. Most developers will tell you that the current way for managers to gauge any given individual is to ask his peers about his performance. Yep, here we are in 2013 and that's the state of the art measurement tactic. The magical dashboard (aka your backlog/scrum board/ etc) where I can go and see who the rockstars are and who the dogs are is misleading, at best. Of course, in the "real" world, revenue is the ultimate measuring stick. Doesn't quite explain why bad software makes so much money and world class software is free.
Idunno ... IMO any manager who needs to ask his ppl to find out the packing order in the team he manages isn't worth his salt. But then again, I'm frequently and constantly surprised about how little most managers understand from the work they are supposed to manage.
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
We prefer to have our monkeys in their cages, that way, they can concentrate on their typewritters... ;P Seriously, i prefer big offices by department/group, with cubicles within these offices for individuals, i think is the right mix of privacy and socialization.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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No one has mentioned bookcases, which don't fit well in an open plan. I know, books are passe these days, but I still keep a few for reference. So, at least some sort of cubicle wall is needed. Regarding being in the zone, I am able to ignore almost anything (just ask my wife) to concentrate on work. Noise doesn't bother me as long as it isn't intelligent noise (which means most people talking are no distraction). My kids need headphones, which seem to work. I am distracted though by anyone staring at me while I try to work. And last but not least, no one has mentioned passing gas, for which a private office is needed, preferably in a corner with a separate air flow system and a window.
Passing gas, B.O., perfume & cologne (some people seem to think those are substitutes for bathwater), garlic breath, anchovies, bells on feet (literally), slurping coffee, flip-flops (smack, smack, smack - from one end of the office and back again), popping chewing gum, headphones cranked up so much you don't need to be the one wearing them to hear the noise clearly, etc. are all reasons against open office plans. I've worked in large bullpens and don't miss them at all. Management really showed their stuff when they told us we could declare our cubicles non-smoking areas (yes - it's been awhile)! Blessed are those who are blissfully unaware of what goes on around them. Me - I've been damned!
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile: