Horse Meat In The United Kingdom
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Yep, one of the main reasons I'm a veggie is that I have no respect for the meat industry.
Can't say as I have an awful lot of respect for cabbages and turnips.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Naerling wrote:
I'm a vegetarian
Then you deny your evolutionary imperitive. You are denying what you are and that is hypocrisy. You have canine teeth and enzymes designed to breakdown animal tissue. You have forward pointing eyes and intelligence. You are a flesh eater, a hunter, a predator. Look at all the predatory fauna, they are higher intelligence and similar morphology. Then look at the vegegabilst animals. They are slower, fatter, and less intelligent. Meat has a price, but it's rewards outweigh the cost. I am a happy carnivore and will hunt, kill, prepare, dress, cook and eat that which I kill.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
B*ll*cks on almost all counts. Tackling them more or less in order. 1. You have canine teeth. We also regularly get back problems due to the fact that evolution is NOT intelligent design. 2. No we are omnivores, adapted to eat either pretty well any food source. It is largely up to us which we choose, we can equal nutrition from any source if we choose well. 3. When was the last time you, or the majority of our species hunted? 4. Er.. right, so a vast number of anthropoids have less intelligence than lions. Hmm. 5. Same answer as (4). Comparing us to animals massively removed in terms of genetic material (or at least as far as most mammals are) and ignoring those closest to us is a massive example of selection bias. Yet more unintelligent design. 6. Right, I think you'll find that a balanced vegetarian diet has all the nutritional benefits and avoids most of the hazards. On top of that, its environmentally more friendly than a meat-based diet as it produces massively less CO^2, its more ethical (purely on the basis of the way industrial meat production actually treats animals), and, unless you're stupid and ignore basic dietary advice, better for you. Sorry, but sometimes bull has to be called. PS. I normally avoid ranting on this subject I think you beat me to that.
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Naerling wrote:
I'm a vegetarian
Then you deny your evolutionary imperitive. You are denying what you are and that is hypocrisy. You have canine teeth and enzymes designed to breakdown animal tissue. You have forward pointing eyes and intelligence. You are a flesh eater, a hunter, a predator. Look at all the predatory fauna, they are higher intelligence and similar morphology. Then look at the vegegabilst animals. They are slower, fatter, and less intelligent. Meat has a price, but it's rewards outweigh the cost. I am a happy carnivore and will hunt, kill, prepare, dress, cook and eat that which I kill.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
Actually, that part about being intelligent enables me to question my ways, which is exactly what I did, after which I decided never to eat meat again. Now if I were, for lack of a better word, a 'lower' animal I would have just eaten my meat because that just so happens to be what I do. I am also quite positive we are not designed to hunt. We have no strength, speed or endurance like many animals have. The only reason we can kill those animals is because we just so happen to walk on our hind legs in a straight position, which enables us to hold weapons with which we can kill those animals. And seriously, the only hunting people do nowadays is hunting McDonalds... That's not hunting! Calling it a hunt, or yourself a predator for that matter, is just nonsense. I think by far most people in the world have never hunted anything in their life! Now about veggie's being slower, fatter and less intelligent I don't know. What I do know is that it's mainly the meat eaters among humans that are the fat bastards that stuff themselves at fast food restaurants, unable to walk for more than a mile because their louzy condition and poor health won't allow it... Maybe I shouldn't mention I write software for slaughterhouses... Nope, this wouldn't be the best time to share that part about my life...
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
Can't say as I have an awful lot of respect for cabbages and turnips.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
By the sound of it not much imagination in terms of cooking either, if that's your idea of a veggie diet.
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Honestly as long as I can't tell the difference and it doesn't make me sick, I don't really care what it is. Meat that tastes like beef is beef as far as I'm concerned.
lewax00 wrote:
Meat that tastes like beef is beef as far as I'm concerned.
I wonder what human flesh tastes like? If it tastes like beef then I shall have an old friend for dinner tonight and a glass of Chianti.
"I do not have to forgive my enemies, I have had them all shot." — Ramón Maria Narváez (1800-68). "I don't need to shoot my enemies, I don't have any." - Me (2012).
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Naerling wrote:
I'm a vegetarian
Then you deny your evolutionary imperitive. You are denying what you are and that is hypocrisy. You have canine teeth and enzymes designed to breakdown animal tissue. You have forward pointing eyes and intelligence. You are a flesh eater, a hunter, a predator. Look at all the predatory fauna, they are higher intelligence and similar morphology. Then look at the vegegabilst animals. They are slower, fatter, and less intelligent. Meat has a price, but it's rewards outweigh the cost. I am a happy carnivore and will hunt, kill, prepare, dress, cook and eat that which I kill.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
Man is also built to overpower and take breeding partners with physical force. Am I denying my evolutionary imperative by not raping women? I also have the ability to procreate multiple times a day, (we were all teenagers once). Am I denying my evolutionary imperative by not having children?
Dalek Dave wrote:
Look at all the predatory fauna, they are higher intelligence and similar morphology.
Dalek Dave wrote:
imperitive.
...but can't use spell check apparently.
Dalek Dave wrote:
I am a happy carnivore and will hunt, kill, prepare, dress, cook and eat that which I kill.
With your evolved, predatory bare hands? No tools? My point is not that I have a problem with anyone eating meat, but an evolutionary argument can be used for almost any point of view, on any topic, and will always be fallible.
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lewax00 wrote:
Meat that tastes like beef is beef as far as I'm concerned.
I wonder what human flesh tastes like? If it tastes like beef then I shall have an old friend for dinner tonight and a glass of Chianti.
"I do not have to forgive my enemies, I have had them all shot." — Ramón Maria Narváez (1800-68). "I don't need to shoot my enemies, I don't have any." - Me (2012).
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B*ll*cks on almost all counts. Tackling them more or less in order. 1. You have canine teeth. We also regularly get back problems due to the fact that evolution is NOT intelligent design. 2. No we are omnivores, adapted to eat either pretty well any food source. It is largely up to us which we choose, we can equal nutrition from any source if we choose well. 3. When was the last time you, or the majority of our species hunted? 4. Er.. right, so a vast number of anthropoids have less intelligence than lions. Hmm. 5. Same answer as (4). Comparing us to animals massively removed in terms of genetic material (or at least as far as most mammals are) and ignoring those closest to us is a massive example of selection bias. Yet more unintelligent design. 6. Right, I think you'll find that a balanced vegetarian diet has all the nutritional benefits and avoids most of the hazards. On top of that, its environmentally more friendly than a meat-based diet as it produces massively less CO^2, its more ethical (purely on the basis of the way industrial meat production actually treats animals), and, unless you're stupid and ignore basic dietary advice, better for you. Sorry, but sometimes bull has to be called. PS. I normally avoid ranting on this subject I think you beat me to that.
Rob Grainger wrote:
We also regularly get back problems due to the fact that evolution is NOT intelligent design.
Well of course there is no intelligent design, so any religious bollox about not eating anything in particular is crapola.
Rob Grainger wrote:
It is largely up to us which we choose, we can equal nutrition from any source if we choose well.
Apart from our direct need of animal protein as we are young, that is why we developed those enzymes, not through choice but by requirement.
Rob Grainger wrote:
When was the last time you, or the majority of our species hunted?
26th of December. I was hunting then and ate what I caught.
Rob Grainger wrote:
Er.. right, so a vast number of anthropoids have less intelligence than lions. Hmm.
Wrong argument. They are merely the apex of intelligence, but a lion is much more intelligent than a gazelle. Your argument is spurious as ALL homonids were capable of eating meat, and do not believe the vegetabilist propaganda of all the great apes being entirely vegetarian. Pan, Pongo and Gorilla are all omniverous and eat animal protein. Chimps in particular are vicious carnivours, whilst Orangutans and Gorillas are both insectivorous and larvaephageous.
Rob Grainger wrote:
Same answer as (4). Comparing us to animals massively removed in terms of genetic material (or at least as far as most mammals are) and ignoring those closest to us is a massive example of selection bias. Yet more unintelligent design.
There we go, you lose. The 'Comparing us to animals' is a lost cause. We are animals, of the kingdo, Animalia. No selection bias. Birds are not mammals, and yet the meat eaters show problem solving intelligence. And of course there is no intelligent design, it can all be shown in evolutionary steps. 'Intelligent Design' is a self defeating argument, for those that believe in it are, by definition, not intelligent.
Rob Grainger wrote:
Right, I think you'll find that a balanced vegetarian diet has all the nutritional benefits and avoids most of the hazards.
Right, ok, lets look at that. Firstly you cannot get all the amino acids that are required for full embryonic development
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Actually, that part about being intelligent enables me to question my ways, which is exactly what I did, after which I decided never to eat meat again. Now if I were, for lack of a better word, a 'lower' animal I would have just eaten my meat because that just so happens to be what I do. I am also quite positive we are not designed to hunt. We have no strength, speed or endurance like many animals have. The only reason we can kill those animals is because we just so happen to walk on our hind legs in a straight position, which enables us to hold weapons with which we can kill those animals. And seriously, the only hunting people do nowadays is hunting McDonalds... That's not hunting! Calling it a hunt, or yourself a predator for that matter, is just nonsense. I think by far most people in the world have never hunted anything in their life! Now about veggie's being slower, fatter and less intelligent I don't know. What I do know is that it's mainly the meat eaters among humans that are the fat bastards that stuff themselves at fast food restaurants, unable to walk for more than a mile because their louzy condition and poor health won't allow it... Maybe I shouldn't mention I write software for slaughterhouses... Nope, this wouldn't be the best time to share that part about my life...
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}We are faster and stronger than 99.99999999999999% of all the other animals. We evolved from carnivores and became omnivores. We gave up specialism and became intelligent generalists. Our hunting exists, it has just become more cerebral. Crows have been shown to not only use a tool, but to use a tool to make a tool. Only Chimps and us have that ability. As for hunting burgers, I disagree. I have stalked and hunted animals, and eaten them. You are generalising for a race of fat lazy fucks, but when the bomb goes up and we need to eat rats and squirrels to stay alive, then I am your man! Regardless of the society, one merely has to look at the genes. If we develop genes to code for meat dissolving enzymes then we are, by definition, exogenous heterophagic organisms, and that is merely a step from carnivora.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
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We are faster and stronger than 99.99999999999999% of all the other animals. We evolved from carnivores and became omnivores. We gave up specialism and became intelligent generalists. Our hunting exists, it has just become more cerebral. Crows have been shown to not only use a tool, but to use a tool to make a tool. Only Chimps and us have that ability. As for hunting burgers, I disagree. I have stalked and hunted animals, and eaten them. You are generalising for a race of fat lazy fucks, but when the bomb goes up and we need to eat rats and squirrels to stay alive, then I am your man! Regardless of the society, one merely has to look at the genes. If we develop genes to code for meat dissolving enzymes then we are, by definition, exogenous heterophagic organisms, and that is merely a step from carnivora.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
We are faster and stronger than 99.99999999999999% of all the other animals.
And about 99.99999999999999% of those cannot be seen, let alone eaten, by us...
Dalek Dave wrote:
We gave up specialism and became intelligent generalists.
Our intelligence is degrading by the ages...
Dalek Dave wrote:
Crows have been shown to not only use a tool, but to use a tool to make a tool.
Only Chimps and us have that ability.Appearently us and chimps aren't the only ones...
Dalek Dave wrote:
You are generalising for a race of fat lazy f***s, but when the bomb goes up and we need to eat rats and squirrels to stay alive, then I am your man!
When that day comes I probably don't even want to live anymore... And not because I must eat squirrels and rats. Now whatever it is evolution has in store for us or what you believe we should all be doing or what you believe evolution wants us to do... I really don't care. I don't eat meat and no evolution, Dalek, or tool weilding crow can change a thing about it. Only I can if I ever decide I want to eat meat after all. So far I've been doing fine without it for the last 15 years and I don't miss it one bit.
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
Dalek Dave wrote:
We are faster and stronger than 99.99999999999999% of all the other animals.
And about 99.99999999999999% of those cannot be seen, let alone eaten, by us...
Dalek Dave wrote:
We gave up specialism and became intelligent generalists.
Our intelligence is degrading by the ages...
Dalek Dave wrote:
Crows have been shown to not only use a tool, but to use a tool to make a tool.
Only Chimps and us have that ability.Appearently us and chimps aren't the only ones...
Dalek Dave wrote:
You are generalising for a race of fat lazy f***s, but when the bomb goes up and we need to eat rats and squirrels to stay alive, then I am your man!
When that day comes I probably don't even want to live anymore... And not because I must eat squirrels and rats. Now whatever it is evolution has in store for us or what you believe we should all be doing or what you believe evolution wants us to do... I really don't care. I don't eat meat and no evolution, Dalek, or tool weilding crow can change a thing about it. Only I can if I ever decide I want to eat meat after all. So far I've been doing fine without it for the last 15 years and I don't miss it one bit.
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}Naerling wrote:
what you believe evolution wants us to do...
And there is the problem. Evolution doesn't WANT us to do anything. There is no desire of evolution, merely a requirement to breed, a biological imperitive. Ye Gods isit too hard to understand OK, as it happens I got my second, later life degree, in evolutionary biology, but even the fundamentals ought to be simple. Survival is all. Breed and die is all you are programmed to do.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
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Naerling wrote:
I'm a vegetarian
Then you deny your evolutionary imperitive. You are denying what you are and that is hypocrisy. You have canine teeth and enzymes designed to breakdown animal tissue. You have forward pointing eyes and intelligence. You are a flesh eater, a hunter, a predator. Look at all the predatory fauna, they are higher intelligence and similar morphology. Then look at the vegegabilst animals. They are slower, fatter, and less intelligent. Meat has a price, but it's rewards outweigh the cost. I am a happy carnivore and will hunt, kill, prepare, dress, cook and eat that which I kill.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
They are slower, fatter, and less intelligent.
I think you just lost your own argument right there, given the obesity rates, political views, and education here in the US! Marc
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Yep, one of the main reasons I'm a veggie is that I have no respect for the meat industry.
Rob Grainger wrote:
...one of the main reasons I'm a veggie is that I have no respect for the meat industry.
So, if you like animals so much, why do you eat all their food? Actually I sympathize a little. I eat meat that I can identify but have no respect for the sausage, hot dog, or balogna industries and avoid those latter three.
-- Harvey
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Naerling wrote:
I'm a vegetarian
Then you deny your evolutionary imperitive. You are denying what you are and that is hypocrisy. You have canine teeth and enzymes designed to breakdown animal tissue. You have forward pointing eyes and intelligence. You are a flesh eater, a hunter, a predator. Look at all the predatory fauna, they are higher intelligence and similar morphology. Then look at the vegegabilst animals. They are slower, fatter, and less intelligent. Meat has a price, but it's rewards outweigh the cost. I am a happy carnivore and will hunt, kill, prepare, dress, cook and eat that which I kill.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
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What if it tastes like chicken?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Naerling wrote:
what you believe evolution wants us to do...
And there is the problem. Evolution doesn't WANT us to do anything. There is no desire of evolution, merely a requirement to breed, a biological imperitive. Ye Gods isit too hard to understand OK, as it happens I got my second, later life degree, in evolutionary biology, but even the fundamentals ought to be simple. Survival is all. Breed and die is all you are programmed to do.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Survival is all.
And I've been surviving pretty well without meat for the last 15 years...
Dalek Dave wrote:
Breed and die is all you are programmed to do.
I wasn't planning of breeding in this lifetime. If there's anything I can't stand it's kids. I only have to newphews which have my last name, but they both live in Canada. All my nieces decided to take the last name of their husbands. It seems the Dutch branch of my family will end with me. So much for survival and breeding. I should've paid more attention in biology class.
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
Rob Grainger wrote:
We also regularly get back problems due to the fact that evolution is NOT intelligent design.
Well of course there is no intelligent design, so any religious bollox about not eating anything in particular is crapola.
Rob Grainger wrote:
It is largely up to us which we choose, we can equal nutrition from any source if we choose well.
Apart from our direct need of animal protein as we are young, that is why we developed those enzymes, not through choice but by requirement.
Rob Grainger wrote:
When was the last time you, or the majority of our species hunted?
26th of December. I was hunting then and ate what I caught.
Rob Grainger wrote:
Er.. right, so a vast number of anthropoids have less intelligence than lions. Hmm.
Wrong argument. They are merely the apex of intelligence, but a lion is much more intelligent than a gazelle. Your argument is spurious as ALL homonids were capable of eating meat, and do not believe the vegetabilist propaganda of all the great apes being entirely vegetarian. Pan, Pongo and Gorilla are all omniverous and eat animal protein. Chimps in particular are vicious carnivours, whilst Orangutans and Gorillas are both insectivorous and larvaephageous.
Rob Grainger wrote:
Same answer as (4). Comparing us to animals massively removed in terms of genetic material (or at least as far as most mammals are) and ignoring those closest to us is a massive example of selection bias. Yet more unintelligent design.
There we go, you lose. The 'Comparing us to animals' is a lost cause. We are animals, of the kingdo, Animalia. No selection bias. Birds are not mammals, and yet the meat eaters show problem solving intelligence. And of course there is no intelligent design, it can all be shown in evolutionary steps. 'Intelligent Design' is a self defeating argument, for those that believe in it are, by definition, not intelligent.
Rob Grainger wrote:
Right, I think you'll find that a balanced vegetarian diet has all the nutritional benefits and avoids most of the hazards.
Right, ok, lets look at that. Firstly you cannot get all the amino acids that are required for full embryonic development
Dalek Dave wrote:
Well of course there is no intelligent design, so any religious bollox about not eating anything in particular is crapola.
We agree on one thing at least, and yet you still regularly commit the ID error of stating that various features have evolved for a partioular reason, as you did for cannines, hence my point, and indeed, as above "that is why we developed those enzymes" - again implying a design.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Apart from our direct need of animal protein as we are young, that is why we developed those enzymes, not through choice but by requirement.
I'm sorry, but that is a myth. Nutritionists and the World Health Organisation have both refuted these arguments. Even a vegan diet can contain all the nutrients necessary for healthy development, although admittedly it takes more attention to your diet. There are absolutely no proteins obtainable only from meat. The trickiest part of a veggie diet is Omega-3 oils, but those can be obtained from various sources, including Tofu, Walnuts. Trust me, as a vegetarian for 30 years I may be better informed, as I've researched this both for my health and my child's.
Dalek Dave wrote:
26th of December. I was hunting then and ate what I caught.
I respect that - I have no issues with eating meat if it is sourced from animals that are treated well and/or hunted well. Actually, industrial meat production is not only unethical, but produces an inferior product.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Wrong argument.
They are merely the apex of intelligence, but a lion is much more intelligent than a gazelle. Your argument is spurious as ALL homonids were capable of eating meat, and do not believe the vegetabilist propaganda of all the great apes being entirely vegetarian.I wouldn't dispute that a lion is more intelligent than a gazelle, in fact I woouldn't know. I do know that most apes are more intelligent. I never said that all apes have a vegetarian diet, I know full well they don't, but a vast number do, including some of those we are closely related to. And why the hell are you bringing poisons up? And you accuse me of desparation in my arguments! PS. As an Atheist, I can be vegetarian for ethical reasons without needing religious reasons. Indeed, ethics is a branch of philosophy, and many scientists have related ethic
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Indeed. Animal protien is animal protein regardless of its source. Those tossers that insist that their children become vegetarians are guilty of both child cruelty and facism. The cruelty being that the children are denied the benefits of the animal nutrients and the facism is in not allowing them to make their own informed choice.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
the facism is in not allowing them to make their own informed choice
By that logic every parent is a facist.
