Is there such a thing as a "Programming Savant"?
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Have you ever met or heard of a
Savant Programmer? I mean a real Savant. (See Savant_syndrome[^]) Further more, how come there is no cognitive theory that explains savants' combination of talent and deficit?Cheees, Edo
I don't know, but thank you. My vocabulary has a new addition.
Quick Homepage - www.FaceLaptop.com
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*Cough ahem* programming savant. I thoroughly expected you to link to Sacha Barber's profile instead.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier -
I have a mild case of Asparagus. As a child I would arrange toy cars by colour and perceived speed. I would not let any food on a plate touch any other food on the plate, so my peas could not touch my carrots for example. I hated the colours yellow and brown (Growing up in the 70's proved particularly traumatic!). A dislike of strangers and new situations is another symptom. Still, it made me learn about maths and physics and computers and allowed me to become a management accountant!
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
maths
Good...
Dalek Dave wrote:
physics
Good....
Dalek Dave wrote:
computers
Good.....
Dalek Dave wrote:
management accountant
:doh:
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Apart from the exceptional skills on one area, a Savant is someone with serious mental disabilities, including autistic disorder :doh: I mean you do give great examples, but I'm not sure about the programming skills ...
Cheees, Edo
Edo Tzumer wrote:
I'm not sure about the programming skills
I've known Sacha a long time. His programming skills are insane.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier -
Lopsided, mmm, I don't know. It's shaking off the staggering phenomenon of the enhanced abilities that Savants have. Have you had the chance to review a real Savants' skills? I've seen things you can't imagine, :omg: like an almost blind man that could draw landscape he glimpsed at, that would look almost real, as if they were not really a drawing. Or mathematical skills that even 180IQ scorers would be impressed with, etc. What I was wondering is if there has ever been an appearance of a Savant in programming, would be exceptionally useful for assembly analysis perhaps...
Cheees, Edo
Lopsided because every savant I have heard of has generally had a very underdeveloped emotional side(incapable of holding a conversation outside of their speciality, very few friends etc) - of course there are degrees to everything, however that is my anecdotal experience...
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Lopsided, mmm, I don't know. It's shaking off the staggering phenomenon of the enhanced abilities that Savants have. Have you had the chance to review a real Savants' skills? I've seen things you can't imagine, :omg: like an almost blind man that could draw landscape he glimpsed at, that would look almost real, as if they were not really a drawing. Or mathematical skills that even 180IQ scorers would be impressed with, etc. What I was wondering is if there has ever been an appearance of a Savant in programming, would be exceptionally useful for assembly analysis perhaps...
Cheees, Edo
Edo Tzumer wrote:
I've seen things you can't imagine
So have I. But mostly after partaking of illicit narcotics...
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
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Edo Tzumer wrote:
I've seen things you can't imagine
So have I. But mostly after partaking of illicit narcotics...
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like... tears in rain.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like... tears in rain.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Time...to die
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
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Time...to die
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
It's a bit like Hamlet's final soliloquy.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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It's a bit like Hamlet's final soliloquy.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
I'd rather have burning attack ships than slings and arrows any day...
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
-
I have a mild case of Asparagus. As a child I would arrange toy cars by colour and perceived speed. I would not let any food on a plate touch any other food on the plate, so my peas could not touch my carrots for example. I hated the colours yellow and brown (Growing up in the 70's proved particularly traumatic!). A dislike of strangers and new situations is another symptom. Still, it made me learn about maths and physics and computers and allowed me to become a management accountant!
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
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Edo Tzumer wrote:
I'm not sure about the programming skills
I've known Sacha a long time. His programming skills are insane.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier -
Have you ever met or heard of a
Savant Programmer? I mean a real Savant. (See Savant_syndrome[^]) Further more, how come there is no cognitive theory that explains savants' combination of talent and deficit?Cheees, Edo
Well, I believe I have worked alongside some programmers whose skills were so remarkable they would certainly qualify as a "savant," but, in general, these were also people with with pretty normal social-skills, a wide range of interests, as well. Were they (and I, at the time) "geeky" ? Maybe: a little; but, I think it was more from the passion for the work, and the feeling, particularly, at Adobe, that there was no choice but to be "excellent" at what you did (it was in the "culture," and it was not "fear-driven"). For a period of time people who exhibited extraordinary mental abilities in some narrow range were all classified as having "savant syndrome" and being "autistic:" but, that changed, as research showed that half of these people were not autistic. And, there are rare cases of suddenly acquired, in later life, savant-level remarkable abilities. I have known well one very unusual man who had phenomenal programming abilities as a "hacker;" I believe he fits the diagnosis of "high-functioning" Asperger's Syndrome, one of the three main divisions of the modern concept of ASD (Autistic Syndrome Disorders). He was a doctoral student in Physics at a major University, and evidently had a nervous break-down of some type, after which he never attended graduate school again, but I suspect that, for him, what, for most of us, is the "normal social world," and "social interaction," was always a very different experience in which he never "connected" with people. And, in the early days of the Berkeley (that's Berkeley, California) Macintosh User's Group, the famous phone-phreak, "Captain Crunch," John Draper, would often come, and then go hang-out with a group of us that would go out for dinner somewhere, after the meeting: his social awkwardness was very painful to watch, and he would often accidentally knock things off the table. These days, I'm happy to say, that all the old categories of "retardation," and "autism" are being challenged by new research on genetics, and brain development, and functioning. Dr. Temple Grandin's (autistic) incredible life and work [^] are a remarkable testimony to the possibility of achievements for persons with "autistic" disorder. I like to think there is a spectrum of types of intelligence, a continuum if you will, and at the "extremes" of this spectrum you can have generalized impairment of physical, mental, and social functioning that has a definitely genetic basis
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Well, I believe I have worked alongside some programmers whose skills were so remarkable they would certainly qualify as a "savant," but, in general, these were also people with with pretty normal social-skills, a wide range of interests, as well. Were they (and I, at the time) "geeky" ? Maybe: a little; but, I think it was more from the passion for the work, and the feeling, particularly, at Adobe, that there was no choice but to be "excellent" at what you did (it was in the "culture," and it was not "fear-driven"). For a period of time people who exhibited extraordinary mental abilities in some narrow range were all classified as having "savant syndrome" and being "autistic:" but, that changed, as research showed that half of these people were not autistic. And, there are rare cases of suddenly acquired, in later life, savant-level remarkable abilities. I have known well one very unusual man who had phenomenal programming abilities as a "hacker;" I believe he fits the diagnosis of "high-functioning" Asperger's Syndrome, one of the three main divisions of the modern concept of ASD (Autistic Syndrome Disorders). He was a doctoral student in Physics at a major University, and evidently had a nervous break-down of some type, after which he never attended graduate school again, but I suspect that, for him, what, for most of us, is the "normal social world," and "social interaction," was always a very different experience in which he never "connected" with people. And, in the early days of the Berkeley (that's Berkeley, California) Macintosh User's Group, the famous phone-phreak, "Captain Crunch," John Draper, would often come, and then go hang-out with a group of us that would go out for dinner somewhere, after the meeting: his social awkwardness was very painful to watch, and he would often accidentally knock things off the table. These days, I'm happy to say, that all the old categories of "retardation," and "autism" are being challenged by new research on genetics, and brain development, and functioning. Dr. Temple Grandin's (autistic) incredible life and work [^] are a remarkable testimony to the possibility of achievements for persons with "autistic" disorder. I like to think there is a spectrum of types of intelligence, a continuum if you will, and at the "extremes" of this spectrum you can have generalized impairment of physical, mental, and social functioning that has a definitely genetic basis
Hi Bill, you've taken this into a whole different line of thought, but I like the sound of it :) I hear you on the lack of shrinks back then. It sure is crazy to be normal these days. What do you make of the youth that have lost the ability as a society to attach to values of any healthy [debatable] ring of known people, perhaps due to the fact that they spend much of their time with virtual friends who they will probably never meet and in some cases do not exist, or exist in a very different way than what is presented over the waves of the mighty internet? I happen to know quite a number of individuals who consider themselves happy with the fact that they have managed to top the tidal times and lead a nice one-wife type of life. But then, if they are lucky\successful where is the world going? [and I'm talking on the short 10-30 years run, for the long run, I have no worries as I know the creator has well planned every aspect and the eventual outcome is clear to me]
Cheees, Edo
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like... tears in rain.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
-
Have you ever met or heard of a
Savant Programmer? I mean a real Savant. (See Savant_syndrome[^]) Further more, how come there is no cognitive theory that explains savants' combination of talent and deficit?Cheees, Edo
Edo Tzumer wrote:
Further more, how come there is no cognitive theory that explains savants' combination of talent and deficit?
I was able to form one: People have such low standards and expectations for the mentally deficient, brain injured, and autistic, that when one shows above average aptitude in any individual faculty, they get labelled as a possible savant. Example: they cite that 1 in 10 autistic people are some level of savant. I suggest that 1 in 10 average people would be labelled a savant in something, too. I speak from both sides of the aisle, I've lived half my life as boring/normal, the other half brain injured. That being said, I would probable be labelled as a programmer savant if people were to study.
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Well, I believe I have worked alongside some programmers whose skills were so remarkable they would certainly qualify as a "savant," but, in general, these were also people with with pretty normal social-skills, a wide range of interests, as well. Were they (and I, at the time) "geeky" ? Maybe: a little; but, I think it was more from the passion for the work, and the feeling, particularly, at Adobe, that there was no choice but to be "excellent" at what you did (it was in the "culture," and it was not "fear-driven"). For a period of time people who exhibited extraordinary mental abilities in some narrow range were all classified as having "savant syndrome" and being "autistic:" but, that changed, as research showed that half of these people were not autistic. And, there are rare cases of suddenly acquired, in later life, savant-level remarkable abilities. I have known well one very unusual man who had phenomenal programming abilities as a "hacker;" I believe he fits the diagnosis of "high-functioning" Asperger's Syndrome, one of the three main divisions of the modern concept of ASD (Autistic Syndrome Disorders). He was a doctoral student in Physics at a major University, and evidently had a nervous break-down of some type, after which he never attended graduate school again, but I suspect that, for him, what, for most of us, is the "normal social world," and "social interaction," was always a very different experience in which he never "connected" with people. And, in the early days of the Berkeley (that's Berkeley, California) Macintosh User's Group, the famous phone-phreak, "Captain Crunch," John Draper, would often come, and then go hang-out with a group of us that would go out for dinner somewhere, after the meeting: his social awkwardness was very painful to watch, and he would often accidentally knock things off the table. These days, I'm happy to say, that all the old categories of "retardation," and "autism" are being challenged by new research on genetics, and brain development, and functioning. Dr. Temple Grandin's (autistic) incredible life and work [^] are a remarkable testimony to the possibility of achievements for persons with "autistic" disorder. I like to think there is a spectrum of types of intelligence, a continuum if you will, and at the "extremes" of this spectrum you can have generalized impairment of physical, mental, and social functioning that has a definitely genetic basis
BillWoodruff wrote:
he would often accidentally knock things off the table
Probably a third of the time I go out with friends, I spill beer on somebody, flip some silverware across the room, or dump some of my food/drink. I prefer to think of it more as entertainment than mishap. :)
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BillWoodruff wrote:
he would often accidentally knock things off the table
Probably a third of the time I go out with friends, I spill beer on somebody, flip some silverware across the room, or dump some of my food/drink. I prefer to think of it more as entertainment than mishap. :)
I call it being drunk as a skunk
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I call it being drunk as a skunk
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
I will admit that there is a correlation between the two (entertainment and skunkish drunkenness), but I will have to perform more studies before I can demonstrate a causal relationship.
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I will admit that there is a correlation between the two (entertainment and skunkish drunkenness), but I will have to perform more studies before I can demonstrate a causal relationship.
I was once sufficiently drunk that I knocked a nearly full pint of beer off a bar, and simply bent and caught it before it hit the ground, hardly spilling a drop. This is a statistical anomaly that may spoil studies like yours, requiring the definition of 'spillage' to be more accurately defined. The fact that a sober person, on seeing the drink fall, would have stepped away, to avoid beery ankles, knowing, instinctively, the impossibility of catching the glass, before it hit the ground, would be, also, grounds for another, interesting, study. * * commas supplied in honour of Bill, may his punctuation never fail!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
