US versus Europe
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Teletext predates the web by about 15 years, and doesn't require anything but a TV and an aerial. ;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Teletext predates the web by about 15 years, and doesn't require anything but a TV and an aerial. and a remote control !! :)
... you keep forgetting that sheep shagging is not a crime in Australia ...Paul Watson, The Lounge
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Marc Richarme wrote: The web page compares many aspects of culture/lifestyle in the US with Germany (which mostly applies to the rest of Europe too). Well I am sure many non-German Europeans will object to your last statement... :) Also I wonder how much the fact that the author grew up in Germany and not America has influenced what he has written. He lived in Germany until he was 26. That is a long time and by the time he reached America he was too old to experience the youth culture, which is what he experienced in Germany. So he is comparing his experience as a youth in Germany to his experience as an adult in America. The youth have a very different view of their country to the "elderly."
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaAnna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I don't know much about Artificial Intelligence, but I've seen a lot of Natural Stupidity in the corporate world...
I've been to the US and Germany, and I found that despite the language barriers in both countries the I felt much more at home in Germany (I'm from the UK). My experiences have been limited in terms of locations in each country but one comment I have to disagree with is about discrimination against minorities such as homosexuals. There is a lot of violence against them which is simply not recorded in the US (I have been told about this by freinds there), including from the police. Certainly the police in the UK are very good on relations with the gay community and I've heard some very funny stories from gay friends about various little incidents and very few negatives. Elaine The tigress is here :-D
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http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html[^] The web page compares many aspects of culture/lifestyle in the US with Germany (which mostly applies to the rest of Europe too). Very interesting, IMO.
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
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I've been to the US and Germany, and I found that despite the language barriers in both countries the I felt much more at home in Germany (I'm from the UK). My experiences have been limited in terms of locations in each country but one comment I have to disagree with is about discrimination against minorities such as homosexuals. There is a lot of violence against them which is simply not recorded in the US (I have been told about this by freinds there), including from the police. Certainly the police in the UK are very good on relations with the gay community and I've heard some very funny stories from gay friends about various little incidents and very few negatives. Elaine The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote: I have to disagree with is about discrimination against minorities such as homosexuals. There is a lot of violence against them which is simply not recorded in the US (I have been told about this by freinds there), including from the police. Certainly the police in the UK are very good on relations with the gay community and I've heard some very funny stories from gay friends about various little incidents and very few negatives. I have never been to Germany, been to the UK though, but not lived. But from my perceptions of Germany I would say that it is much more extreme in it's view on minorities like homosexuals, non-whites, Jews etc. Those who are homophobic are very vocal about it. But they seem a minority themselves and one Germany proper is trying hard to get rid of. And I certainly do not think of America as a bastion of racial or sexual tolerance. Oh, and lets not forget the Berlin Love Parade. Quite a prominent Pink event, right in Germany. London has plenty of it too, so does Cape Town here in South Africa. So that part was probably way off.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaAnna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I don't know much about Artificial Intelligence, but I've seen a lot of Natural Stupidity in the corporate world...
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David Wulff wrote: "In the US, prices are always stated without sales tax, so you never know in advance how much you actually have to pay. " That must be confusing, my head would hurt everytime I went shopping if that were the case here. VAT is standard throughout SA. David Wulff wrote: - I love the idea of a "give a penny/ take a penny" basket! where do I sign up? Yeah, that is a good idea. Wonder though how many billions are lost each year to the idea? Pennys add up. David Wulff wrote: - On the other side, air conditioning has always puzzeled me - just what do you use it for? Surely all of the country can't suffer form heat waves? AC is not just for heat waves, it is for almost everyday use here in SA. During summer the average is 30 degrees c, not fun to work in. About the only time we use heaters are in the dead of winter up in the higher towns and cities. David Wulff wrote: - What about the washing machine statement? Here I just bung the clothing in, tell it the basic cycle and come and collect my dried clothing in about two hours ready for ironing. Nice washing machines you have. Here (and the laundromats I used in London) the dryer and washer are seperate. You can buy all-in-one machines but they are expensive and it is inneficient when you want to dry and wash at the same time. David Wulff wrote: - Americans don't have teletext? What is teletext? Actually, I know what it is but it is very rare here in SA as well. Was surprised how many people use it when I went to London.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaAnna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I don't know much about Artificial Intelligence, but I've seen a lot of Natural Stupidity in the corporate world...
Paul Watson wrote: What is teletext? Actually, I know what it is but it is very rare here in SA as well. Was surprised how many people use it when I went to London. I think it's probably to do with the way that NSTC TV in the states is broadcast vs our PAL TV over here. As far as I can remember, teletext is broadcast on Line 21 (one of the hidden lines at the top of the screen). The same line is used in the states to broadcast Closed Captions. James.
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Well, since I read it, I'll comment on a few of your things, though it didn't take me quite two hours to read it. :) * LONG POST David Wulff wrote: I was very surprised about the whole banking thing - can anyone back that up?! Yes. I have "online" banking. I can only transfer between the same accounts at my bank. I have to "own" both accounts. In addition, my transactions do not show up live in my online banking. For instance, if you go to the bank (which also has a drive-through) and make a transaction, it won't be updated on your online banking until that night around midnight. And that's assuming you get it to the bank before 2PM (in my case). There are some other banks that update their accounts faster. He is absolutely correct when he talks about the bill paying. They will actually print and mail a check for you. David Wulff wrote: Americans don't have teletext? Nope. I didn't really know what it was until he described it. In my area, there are only about 3-4 channels that you can get without paying for it (cable/digital television). You get the little TV Schedule listing only when you sign up for the paid stuff. Sport scores, stock prices. All of that we have things like ESPN and CNBC but you have to wade through the commericals. Use the Internet for those things. David Wulff wrote: What about the washing machine statement? Here I just bung the clothing in, tell it the basic cycle and come and collect my dried clothing in about two hours ready for ironing. Here we have two seperate machines for washing and drying. The wash cycle is about 25-30 minutes and the dry cycle is probably about 60 minutes (on a home dryer). Not too sure how it compares since I have no basis. David Wulff wrote: On the other side, air conditioning has always puzzeled me - just what do you use it for? Surely all of the country can't suffer form heat waves? I thought that was funny how Germans (and Europe?) don't expect A/C. I don't really know what is considered hot to you all. During the summertime, it will get about 85 degrees (F) on a typical July day. I'm in Southern Virginia which is about halfway down on the east coast. It gets a lot warmer as you go south for longer periods of time. I'm sure that it's because we've become use to it. It's a common saying around here that spending too much time in the A/C will ruin you when you decide to go outside and do some
Jonathan Austin wrote: You won't even get ANY nudity on normal "cable" channels Funny, I was just watching one of the Danish national TV channels, and there was this ad in the middle of the day featuring an entirely naked man & womon (not having sex, of course, just walking on the street completely naked). This didn't shock me at all (and I don't think it shocks anybody here), but I'm wondering how people would have reacted to that same ad a couple of years ago, or how people elswhere would react today. [Edit] P.S. With a sunny 30° celcius (85° F), a properly insulated house will keep a nice 24-25° inside -> No need for air conditioning in normal houses. This again relates to the energy consumption issues. (I do realize that in some areas, the temperature gets above 95° F, and in theese cases, I would probably praise AC in my home too, but insulation can do wonders and save plenty of energy and money)
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
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http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html[^] The web page compares many aspects of culture/lifestyle in the US with Germany (which mostly applies to the rest of Europe too). Very interesting, IMO.
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
I think it is interesting that he says Germany is moving in the direction of the U.S. I have felt for a long time that the U.S. is rapidly, and sadly, moving in the direction of Europe politically and culturally. Most people who voted for Al Gore in our last presidential election I'm sure would be very happy living a basically European, fuedalistic, lifestyle. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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Marc Richarme wrote: The web page compares many aspects of culture/lifestyle in the US with Germany (which mostly applies to the rest of Europe too). Well I am sure many non-German Europeans will object to your last statement... :) Also I wonder how much the fact that the author grew up in Germany and not America has influenced what he has written. He lived in Germany until he was 26. That is a long time and by the time he reached America he was too old to experience the youth culture, which is what he experienced in Germany. So he is comparing his experience as a youth in Germany to his experience as an adult in America. The youth have a very different view of their country to the "elderly."
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaAnna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I don't know much about Artificial Intelligence, but I've seen a lot of Natural Stupidity in the corporate world...
Paul Watson wrote: Well I am sure many non-German Europeans will object to your last statement... I'm half Danish, half French, and was born and lived the 18 first years of my life in Luxembourg, and attendend the European School there; That doesn't make me some european superman, but I still think I know a bit more than the average guy on european cultures. :-D Obviously a lot of what is written on the page (especially the jura-related info) applies to Germany only, but what I meant with the "The web page compares many aspects of culture/lifestyle in the US with Germany (which mostly applies to the rest of Europe too)." statement is that a lot of the cultural/social/lifstyle apply (with minor modifications) to a lot of countries in Europe, and describes the general European attitudes very well.
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
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Well, his first sentence was wrong. So I really question the quality of the rest of the paper. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: Well, his first sentence was wrong Which sentence? A subjective comparison of Germany and the United States or I grew up in Germany, lived there for 26 years, then moved to the United States in 1992. First I was a graduate student and now I work as a college teacher :confused:
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
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I think it is interesting that he says Germany is moving in the direction of the U.S. I have felt for a long time that the U.S. is rapidly, and sadly, moving in the direction of Europe politically and culturally. Most people who voted for Al Gore in our last presidential election I'm sure would be very happy living a basically European, fuedalistic, lifestyle. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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feudalistic ? How :confused: ?
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
All I mean by that is, from my perspective, Europeans have never really escaped an inherently fuedalistic mindset. In other words, Marxism, Socialism and even Fascism, are variations on a basically fuedalistic theme. Instead of peasants looking to their 'lord' for their most basic needs, protection and security, you have people looking to the government for those same things, rather than wanting to take the individual responsibility to secure those things for themselves. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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That took much longer to read than I had thought (by about two hours!), but was worth it in the end. Just a few things I want to comment or make observations on: - I was very surprised about the whole banking thing - can anyone back that up?! - Americans don't have teletext? - What about the washing machine statement? Here I just bung the clothing in, tell it the basic cycle and come and collect my dried clothing in about two hours ready for ironing. - On the other side, air conditioning has always puzzeled me - just what do you use it for? Surely all of the country can't suffer form heat waves? - I find the part about success being defined as economical success troubling, the idea that wealth alone brings you status; I would never have thought that myself, but then I don't live in the US. - I have noticed that the American members here are much more willing to condemn when everybody I have ever come into direct contact without would offer sympathy and empathy. That is really quite puzelling to me. - I love the idea of a "give a penny/ take a penny" basket! where do I sign up? - Regarding the statement: "Americans believe that they have "saved" money if they buy something for $50 which has a crossed-out label of $100 attached to it." I didn't realise all Americans were female. ;P - "People actually send loads of money to Christian faith healers who stage the most ridiculous TV shows." and make for brilliant "Tarrant on TV" episodes. ;) - I know we all joke along the lines of the following, but I never considered it to actually be true: "no swearing on radio or TV is allowed (it is rather ironic to hear a beep whenever someone tried to say "fuck", especially in a country which prides itself in strong opposition to censorship), no nudity whatsoever on TV either, and no substantial sex education in the schools (resulting in the highest teen pregnancy rate of the developed world)." Is *any* of that true? :wtf: - "In Germany, TV shows start at varying, strange times. In the US, all shows on all channels always start on the full hour." (my emhpasis) So if you have a thirty minute programm, does that mean you get thirty minutes of ads? :~ - "In the US, prices are always stated without sales tax, so you never know in advance how much you actually have to pay. " - A very interesting comparison. :)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff wrote: - I was very surprised about the whole banking thing - can anyone back that up?! That all depends on where you bank. I have a regular bank account and an account at a credit union - which is like a bank but you have to know somebody to get in, and I own one share. I'm considered a member as opposed to a customer like you'd have at a regular bank. And, they do a lot of the mundane crap for you for free that normal banks simply won't. David Wulff wrote: - I love the idea of a "give a penny/ take a penny" basket! where do I sign up? Just about every gas station in the country. :) Hey, it helps to get exact change sometimes, and leaving a few cents every now and then is better than loosing it in the car. David Wulff wrote: - "In Germany, TV shows start at varying, strange times. In the US, all shows on all channels always start on the full hour." (my emhpasis) So if you have a thirty minute programm, does that mean you get thirty minutes of ads? Shows will last on average ~23 mins to allow for commercials; therefore, filling its 30 min time slot. David Wulff wrote: - "In the US, prices are always stated without sales tax, so you never know in advance how much you actually have to pay. " Yup, it's a marketing thing. I didn't know y'all did do that. Interesting learn. Jeremy Falcon Imputek
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Tim Smith wrote: Well, his first sentence was wrong Which sentence? A subjective comparison of Germany and the United States or I grew up in Germany, lived there for 26 years, then moved to the United States in 1992. First I was a graduate student and now I work as a college teacher :confused:
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
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http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html[^] The web page compares many aspects of culture/lifestyle in the US with Germany (which mostly applies to the rest of Europe too). Very interesting, IMO.
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
Almost all Americans carry several credit cards; I never understood why anyone would bother to carry more than one until a fellow graduate student told me that she treats credit cards as a kind of unemployment insurance. :eek: Follow live World Cup Cricket scores here[^]
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That took much longer to read than I had thought (by about two hours!), but was worth it in the end. Just a few things I want to comment or make observations on: - I was very surprised about the whole banking thing - can anyone back that up?! - Americans don't have teletext? - What about the washing machine statement? Here I just bung the clothing in, tell it the basic cycle and come and collect my dried clothing in about two hours ready for ironing. - On the other side, air conditioning has always puzzeled me - just what do you use it for? Surely all of the country can't suffer form heat waves? - I find the part about success being defined as economical success troubling, the idea that wealth alone brings you status; I would never have thought that myself, but then I don't live in the US. - I have noticed that the American members here are much more willing to condemn when everybody I have ever come into direct contact without would offer sympathy and empathy. That is really quite puzelling to me. - I love the idea of a "give a penny/ take a penny" basket! where do I sign up? - Regarding the statement: "Americans believe that they have "saved" money if they buy something for $50 which has a crossed-out label of $100 attached to it." I didn't realise all Americans were female. ;P - "People actually send loads of money to Christian faith healers who stage the most ridiculous TV shows." and make for brilliant "Tarrant on TV" episodes. ;) - I know we all joke along the lines of the following, but I never considered it to actually be true: "no swearing on radio or TV is allowed (it is rather ironic to hear a beep whenever someone tried to say "fuck", especially in a country which prides itself in strong opposition to censorship), no nudity whatsoever on TV either, and no substantial sex education in the schools (resulting in the highest teen pregnancy rate of the developed world)." Is *any* of that true? :wtf: - "In Germany, TV shows start at varying, strange times. In the US, all shows on all channels always start on the full hour." (my emhpasis) So if you have a thirty minute programm, does that mean you get thirty minutes of ads? :~ - "In the US, prices are always stated without sales tax, so you never know in advance how much you actually have to pay. " - A very interesting comparison. :)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff wrote: "no swearing on radio or TV is allowed absolutely not true. South Park did an episode where they said "shit" 162 times. it's not uncommon at all to hear all of the 2nd level swear words (ass, piss, etc). only the F-bomb is rare, and i think South Park managed to sneak it in during the Shit episode. -c
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. --Thomas Cardinal Wolsey
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Almost all Americans carry several credit cards; I never understood why anyone would bother to carry more than one until a fellow graduate student told me that she treats credit cards as a kind of unemployment insurance. :eek: Follow live World Cup Cricket scores here[^]
Sad, but from my experience... true. I personally have two credit cards (Discover & Visa). I use the Discover card for many (but not all) daily purchases. It's easier than carying cash and they pay a small (.1%??) bonus each month on every purchase. The Visa is only used when the store doesn't accept Discover and I don't have the cash. I pay off both cards fully every month so I pay no interest, but many people don't. I know quite a few people who owe $5,000... $10,000... even $15,000 on credit cards. Their interest payment alone is phenominal! :omg: Credit is VERY easy (too easy IMHO) here and people without will-power can easily be overwhelmed by it. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash. - Emo Phillips
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David Wulff wrote: "no swearing on radio or TV is allowed absolutely not true. South Park did an episode where they said "shit" 162 times. it's not uncommon at all to hear all of the 2nd level swear words (ass, piss, etc). only the F-bomb is rare, and i think South Park managed to sneak it in during the Shit episode. -c
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. --Thomas Cardinal Wolsey
True, in fact most of the popular evening dramas like ER, NYPD Blue, Law & Order, etc... generally have quite a bit of language that would have been banned even 5-6 years ago. What I find interesting is: Why do Europeans think swearing on TV/radio is such a wonderful thing? I'm not prudish on the subject and I can swear like a sailor when I want to but these are publicly broadcast and some of the public doesn't like the language. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash. - Emo Phillips
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http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html[^] The web page compares many aspects of culture/lifestyle in the US with Germany (which mostly applies to the rest of Europe too). Very interesting, IMO.
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
The reason teltext, ISDN, etc isn't widely available in the US because the phone and cable companies felt they couldn't make a profit off these services. If the phone and cable company is state owned profit isn't as much of an issue.
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That took much longer to read than I had thought (by about two hours!), but was worth it in the end. Just a few things I want to comment or make observations on: - I was very surprised about the whole banking thing - can anyone back that up?! - Americans don't have teletext? - What about the washing machine statement? Here I just bung the clothing in, tell it the basic cycle and come and collect my dried clothing in about two hours ready for ironing. - On the other side, air conditioning has always puzzeled me - just what do you use it for? Surely all of the country can't suffer form heat waves? - I find the part about success being defined as economical success troubling, the idea that wealth alone brings you status; I would never have thought that myself, but then I don't live in the US. - I have noticed that the American members here are much more willing to condemn when everybody I have ever come into direct contact without would offer sympathy and empathy. That is really quite puzelling to me. - I love the idea of a "give a penny/ take a penny" basket! where do I sign up? - Regarding the statement: "Americans believe that they have "saved" money if they buy something for $50 which has a crossed-out label of $100 attached to it." I didn't realise all Americans were female. ;P - "People actually send loads of money to Christian faith healers who stage the most ridiculous TV shows." and make for brilliant "Tarrant on TV" episodes. ;) - I know we all joke along the lines of the following, but I never considered it to actually be true: "no swearing on radio or TV is allowed (it is rather ironic to hear a beep whenever someone tried to say "fuck", especially in a country which prides itself in strong opposition to censorship), no nudity whatsoever on TV either, and no substantial sex education in the schools (resulting in the highest teen pregnancy rate of the developed world)." Is *any* of that true? :wtf: - "In Germany, TV shows start at varying, strange times. In the US, all shows on all channels always start on the full hour." (my emhpasis) So if you have a thirty minute programm, does that mean you get thirty minutes of ads? :~ - "In the US, prices are always stated without sales tax, so you never know in advance how much you actually have to pay. " - A very interesting comparison. :)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff wrote: - On the other side, air conditioning has always puzzeled me - just what do you use it for? Surely all of the country can't suffer form heat waves? In Texas, from about May till October, the AVERAGE temp will be well over 80. The highs will be anywhere from 85-110 and the lows from 65-70. In July August, and September we will generally have temps over 95 degrees everyday and some days well over 100. We have had as many as 40 consecutive days over 100. Without AC in both home and auto normal life would be impossible. Think about all that concrete and temps of about 100. The difference in my electric bill in Jan ( about 45.00 ) and Aug ( about 195.00 ) shows the price we pay. OF course since it very seldom even gets below freezing we make some of it up during the winter ( so called ) months. I have been swimming at Christmas here. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
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That took much longer to read than I had thought (by about two hours!), but was worth it in the end. Just a few things I want to comment or make observations on: - I was very surprised about the whole banking thing - can anyone back that up?! - Americans don't have teletext? - What about the washing machine statement? Here I just bung the clothing in, tell it the basic cycle and come and collect my dried clothing in about two hours ready for ironing. - On the other side, air conditioning has always puzzeled me - just what do you use it for? Surely all of the country can't suffer form heat waves? - I find the part about success being defined as economical success troubling, the idea that wealth alone brings you status; I would never have thought that myself, but then I don't live in the US. - I have noticed that the American members here are much more willing to condemn when everybody I have ever come into direct contact without would offer sympathy and empathy. That is really quite puzelling to me. - I love the idea of a "give a penny/ take a penny" basket! where do I sign up? - Regarding the statement: "Americans believe that they have "saved" money if they buy something for $50 which has a crossed-out label of $100 attached to it." I didn't realise all Americans were female. ;P - "People actually send loads of money to Christian faith healers who stage the most ridiculous TV shows." and make for brilliant "Tarrant on TV" episodes. ;) - I know we all joke along the lines of the following, but I never considered it to actually be true: "no swearing on radio or TV is allowed (it is rather ironic to hear a beep whenever someone tried to say "fuck", especially in a country which prides itself in strong opposition to censorship), no nudity whatsoever on TV either, and no substantial sex education in the schools (resulting in the highest teen pregnancy rate of the developed world)." Is *any* of that true? :wtf: - "In Germany, TV shows start at varying, strange times. In the US, all shows on all channels always start on the full hour." (my emhpasis) So if you have a thirty minute programm, does that mean you get thirty minutes of ads? :~ - "In the US, prices are always stated without sales tax, so you never know in advance how much you actually have to pay. " - A very interesting comparison. :)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff wrote: - On the other side, air conditioning has always puzzeled me - just what do you use it for? Surely all of the country can't suffer form heat waves? In Texas, from about May till October, the AVERAGE temp will be well over 80. The highs will be anywhere from 85-110 and the lows from 65-70. In July August, and September we will generally have temps over 95 degrees everyday and some days well over 100. We have had as many as 40 consecutive days over 100. Without AC in both home and auto normal life would be impossible. Think about all that concrete and temps of about 100. The difference in my electric bill in Jan ( about 45.00 ) and Aug ( about 195.00 ) shows the price we pay. OF course since it very seldom even gets below freezing we make some of it up during the winter ( so called ) months. I have been swimming at Christmas here. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein