Hey Mr. President
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It wouldn't be a problem if there were true competition. When they all raise rates in concert then there's nowhere else to go. I'm not suggestion collusion, but one wonders. Another problem is that most of the time you don't know beforehand what something is going to cost before you need the medical problem taken care of. It's like going to the grocery store with no prices on the shelves, filling up your cart, going home with the groceries and getting a $10,000 bill in the mail two months later after you've already eaten everything. It's not like you can regurgitate it all and give it back because it costs too much. So, lack of competition in two ways: you're locked-in insurance-wise to a particular insurer, oftentimes because it's supplied by your workplace, or because everyone-else is raising premiums too. Second, there's no readily available price information from doctors and other healthcare providers.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einsteinahmed zahmed wrote:
Another problem is that most of the time you don't know beforehand what something is going to cost before you need the medical problem taken care of. It's like going to the grocery store with no prices on the shelves, filling up your cart, going home with the groceries and getting a $10,000 bill in the mail two months later after you've already eaten everything. It's not like you can regurgitate it all and give it back because it costs too much.
In comparison it would be quite amusing to see a world where you walked in to a clinic and there were aisles of pictures showing the procedure and a price tag with something you grabbed. Pick a few here and there and to the cash register you go. Pay your bill take the tags to the doctor and end up with a couple fingers up your butt. Hmmm this colonoscopy seems a bit off. Can I exchange it for a visectomy?
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
Another problem is that most of the time you don't know beforehand what something is going to cost before you need the medical problem taken care of. It's like going to the grocery store with no prices on the shelves, filling up your cart, going home with the groceries and getting a $10,000 bill in the mail two months later after you've already eaten everything. It's not like you can regurgitate it all and give it back because it costs too much.
In comparison it would be quite amusing to see a world where you walked in to a clinic and there were aisles of pictures showing the procedure and a price tag with something you grabbed. Pick a few here and there and to the cash register you go. Pay your bill take the tags to the doctor and end up with a couple fingers up your butt. Hmmm this colonoscopy seems a bit off. Can I exchange it for a visectomy?
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Yes, that does seem a bit silly. Just trying to make a valid comparison. Maybe I failed. Anyway it is a problem.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
ahmed zahmed wrote:
I have no sympathies for insurance companies and view them as "legalized" protectionist rackets
They are as evil as they come IMO.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
And yes, I do believe they're taking advantage of us and giving us the shaft. Act, or no Act. It will continue. I'm just pointing out the current reality. Not how it will be after the Act takes place. Yes, we are being preemptively screwed, and I blame Obamacare.
Profit caps went into place in 2011. Not one of the first things (started in 2010) but it was right there. Any effects you are seeing now are likely fraudulent and will come back at them. Blaming the act seems silly. If standards are set by a regulation and those that are required to meet those standards push to take advantage of loopholes on the standards it is not the regulation that is at fault. The fact is those standards needed to be met and now shady execs don't get to buy their 10th home in the hamptons so the frick the public. No. That is not the regulations fault. That is the idiot execs fault. A loophole has no fault. Those that exploit it do.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
Seriously? I think you're out of touch with reality. Most business operate with at least a 15-20% profit margin. I read recently where Microsoft has a profit margin above 70%. Most electronics and computer outfits have a profit margin exceeding 50%.
You are comparing "most" businesses to the most profitable industry of the last decade. Psttt. Please. Most businesses are small mom and pops or franchise shops of which all operate at very small profit margins. I think it is you that is slightly out of touch with reality in thinking that those profits are a norm OR that those profits should be a norm. If a company is ranking in that much someone is getting screwed. I will give you "99" guesses as to who that is.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Hmm, after a bit of research, I find you are correct about the price caps already being in place. I thought the caps didn't go into place until 2014. :-O :~ Can't explain the recent increases then. Some may be legitimate. I wonder though how much of the "increase" is due to the employer passing on some of their costs to the employee. It's happened to me before (even before the ACA was a wet dream in the politician's eyes). I'm not comparing any businesses. Do a bit of research on profit margins. And I don't consider Mom and Pop or franchise shops part of the conversation because the vast majority won't be required to provide health insurance under the ACA. I don't know what profits would or should be a "norm". Just repeating what I've found. And I don't think the gov't should be telling any business how much they should be making. BTW, the 15-20% "margin" required by the ACA also included things like administrative costs. The 80-85% is what must be spent purely on medical care alone. All other costs, such as salaries, bonuses, commissions, and other "administrative" costs must come from the 15-20%. But, did you know that self-insured employers, which cover more than half the nation’s workers, are exempt from the new rule, as are Medicare and Medicaid? So, the one who may be "screwing you over" may be your own employer...
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Yes, that does seem a bit silly. Just trying to make a valid comparison. Maybe I failed. Anyway it is a problem.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert EinsteinNa you had a point. It just made me think of such a silly situation. It does suck though how the health industry works. There is nothing you can do and need there service. They can then charge you after the fact whatever and you are stuck with it. IMO this is the reason most hate clinics and hospitals. Not the needles etc., its the fear of the cost of those needles after they were used.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Hmm, after a bit of research, I find you are correct about the price caps already being in place. I thought the caps didn't go into place until 2014. :-O :~ Can't explain the recent increases then. Some may be legitimate. I wonder though how much of the "increase" is due to the employer passing on some of their costs to the employee. It's happened to me before (even before the ACA was a wet dream in the politician's eyes). I'm not comparing any businesses. Do a bit of research on profit margins. And I don't consider Mom and Pop or franchise shops part of the conversation because the vast majority won't be required to provide health insurance under the ACA. I don't know what profits would or should be a "norm". Just repeating what I've found. And I don't think the gov't should be telling any business how much they should be making. BTW, the 15-20% "margin" required by the ACA also included things like administrative costs. The 80-85% is what must be spent purely on medical care alone. All other costs, such as salaries, bonuses, commissions, and other "administrative" costs must come from the 15-20%. But, did you know that self-insured employers, which cover more than half the nation’s workers, are exempt from the new rule, as are Medicare and Medicaid? So, the one who may be "screwing you over" may be your own employer...
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einsteinahmed zahmed wrote:
And I don't consider Mom and Pop or franchise shops part of the conversation because the vast majority won't be required to provide health insurance under the ACA.
Thats true, but I was more thinking your local stores like grocery (which could have 50 employees) and restaurants. Those are the more common businesses and their operating profits is single digit if they are lucky.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
But, did you know that self-insured employers, which cover more than half the nation’s workers, are exempt from the new rule, as are Medicare and Medicaid? So, the one who may be "screwing you over" may be your own employer...
Yep. A few years back the company I worked for had such a plan. It wasn't horrible, but yeah they were the ones "screwing" you. Sort of. It is their plan but they work with an actual provider to create it usually.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Na you had a point. It just made me think of such a silly situation. It does suck though how the health industry works. There is nothing you can do and need there service. They can then charge you after the fact whatever and you are stuck with it. IMO this is the reason most hate clinics and hospitals. Not the needles etc., its the fear of the cost of those needles after they were used.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Indeed. It also smells.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
ahmed zahmed wrote:
And I don't consider Mom and Pop or franchise shops part of the conversation because the vast majority won't be required to provide health insurance under the ACA.
Thats true, but I was more thinking your local stores like grocery (which could have 50 employees) and restaurants. Those are the more common businesses and their operating profits is single digit if they are lucky.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
But, did you know that self-insured employers, which cover more than half the nation’s workers, are exempt from the new rule, as are Medicare and Medicaid? So, the one who may be "screwing you over" may be your own employer...
Yep. A few years back the company I worked for had such a plan. It wasn't horrible, but yeah they were the ones "screwing" you. Sort of. It is their plan but they work with an actual provider to create it usually.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Yea, food industries are lucky to get anywhere close to 10% profit margin. But I don't think they employ "en toto" that many people as an industry compared to others like health and auto. I've often wondered why you couldn't band such small companies together into some sort of cooperative for the purposes of health insurance. Seems then they'd have more bargaining power and would get a better deal.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Yea, food industries are lucky to get anywhere close to 10% profit margin. But I don't think they employ "en toto" that many people as an industry compared to others like health and auto. I've often wondered why you couldn't band such small companies together into some sort of cooperative for the purposes of health insurance. Seems then they'd have more bargaining power and would get a better deal.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einsteinahmed zahmed wrote:
I've often wondered why you couldn't band such small companies together into some sort of cooperative for the purposes of health insurance. Seems then they'd have more bargaining power and would get a better deal.
That makes me wonder. How do franchises work? For example Subway stores are owned and operated by someone local. They pay fees etc. to the Subway corporation. The store itself is not likely to have 50 employees but the entire corporation of Subway does. Also does Subway the corporation determine which healthcare the employees receive or is it the local owner? It is probably dependent on the franchise is my guess but I am not sure. Never worked for one.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
I've often wondered why you couldn't band such small companies together into some sort of cooperative for the purposes of health insurance. Seems then they'd have more bargaining power and would get a better deal.
That makes me wonder. How do franchises work? For example Subway stores are owned and operated by someone local. They pay fees etc. to the Subway corporation. The store itself is not likely to have 50 employees but the entire corporation of Subway does. Also does Subway the corporation determine which healthcare the employees receive or is it the local owner? It is probably dependent on the franchise is my guess but I am not sure. Never worked for one.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
From what I understand, the workers at the local franchise shop work for the franchisee. It would be interesting to know if they get "benefits" through the corporation. I suppose it depends on the particular franchise business how that is handled and whether or not they're full-time employees. I believe most franchise employees are part-time and thus do not "qualify" for benefits. A cow-orker of mine owns a "SubZero*" ice cream shop. His employees are part time and there are no available benefits from the corp even for "full-time" employees. * They make ice cream by instantly freezing the ingredients using liquid nitrogen.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
From what I understand, the workers at the local franchise shop work for the franchisee. It would be interesting to know if they get "benefits" through the corporation. I suppose it depends on the particular franchise business how that is handled and whether or not they're full-time employees. I believe most franchise employees are part-time and thus do not "qualify" for benefits. A cow-orker of mine owns a "SubZero*" ice cream shop. His employees are part time and there are no available benefits from the corp even for "full-time" employees. * They make ice cream by instantly freezing the ingredients using liquid nitrogen.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einsteinahmed zahmed wrote:
They make ice cream by instantly freezing the ingredients using liquid nitrogen.
I have ice cream on the brain. Just saw this: http://www.morebeans.com/articles/student-easy-money-ice-cream-flour-bread-honestly[^] Now I can claim I know how to bake cool things :-D
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
They make ice cream by instantly freezing the ingredients using liquid nitrogen.
I have ice cream on the brain. Just saw this: http://www.morebeans.com/articles/student-easy-money-ice-cream-flour-bread-honestly[^] Now I can claim I know how to bake cool things :-D
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Cool! Gonna try that tonight! :-D :thumbsup:
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein