Question: Language Barrier
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I got really, really pissed off once with a non English speaker who accused me of using the wrong word in something irreverent. Even after others said the word I had used was correct, if a little obscure in the way I had used it, he still insisted I had used the wrong word just because he had never used it like that.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
I got really, really pissed off once with a non English speaker who accused me of using the wrong word in something irreverent.
Even after others said the word I had used was correct, if a little obscure in the way I had used it, he still insisted I had used the wrong word just because he had never used it like that.Was he American?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Joe_Dert wrote:
I don't think you understand.
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out. You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works. As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant. Now Elephant off Sunshine.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out.
You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works.
As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant.
Now Elephant off Sunshine.This needcs to replace the current Lounge rules at the top of the page. Explains the Lounge more accurately than the KSS rule/. no flame wars blurb. In fact I'm heading over to Sugs and Bugs now.
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I don't think you understood the post, nor who made it.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
nor who made it.
I'm so taking that as a compliment, but know on the face of it it probably isn't.
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I am French, and work in Germany. What you express here is, in my experience, the very same mindset as in France : "first, know your language, then only you are welcome to argument". In Germany, people would listen to you even if you were speaking in URGGGzz ( this is a placeholder, in case it was not clear). And that is one of the many reasons why I enjoy to work here : the language does not matter, only the ideas. This open-minded way to interact with foreigners speeds up the integration. When your arguments are wrong because you did not catch something due to the lack of language knowledge, they will reexplain until they understand. This does not avoid some assholes to behave as you describe, e.g. go into arguments and try to explain you why they are right even if they do not understand you, but it does not happen very often. Precisely because of the patience the Germans show first place. Agreed, differences are that the situations I have described take place face to face, and in business environment ( where you just cannot tell people or colleagues to fuck off like you would on the internet). But, to come to a conclusion, I would recommend to show more patience - give them a chance to express their ideas, and to ignore the obvious trolls.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
I gave them the same respect I give to everyone else. In fact, I'm giving them special treatment, because of the language barrier, and that's the crux of this matter, and part of the point of this discussion. In other words, I have no trouble, calling out anyone who speaks English, if I feel they need to be called out, on the other hand, I felt, extra consideration was needed in this special case, due to the fact that they don't really understand the language. I know plenty of people from around the world, who don't speak English that well, however, they've always treated me with respect, and I do the same. (One of my best friends on the NET is from Germany, and I have trouble understanding him all the time.) This is about people disrespecting me, with the extra consideration that they don't fully understand the language. Hope this clarifies my position.
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Michael Martin wrote:
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out.
You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works.
As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant.
Now Elephant off Sunshine.This needcs to replace the current Lounge rules at the top of the page. Explains the Lounge more accurately than the KSS rule/. no flame wars blurb. In fact I'm heading over to Sugs and Bugs now.
PB 432, 698 wrote:
This needcs to replace the current Lounge rules at the top of the page. Explains the Lounge more accurately than the KSS rule/. no flame wars blurb. In fact I'm heading over to Sugs and Bugs now.
I need a new keyboard or to stop drinking. Far too many spelling mistakes in that post. I'll take I as given that you know I'll have a new keyboard tomorrow.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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ChrisElston wrote:
I got really, really pissed off once with a non English speaker who accused me of using the wrong word in something irreverent.
Even after others said the word I had used was correct, if a little obscure in the way I had used it, he still insisted I had used the wrong word just because he had never used it like that.Was he American?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Joe_Dert wrote:
I don't think you understand.
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out. You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works. As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant. Now Elephant off Sunshine.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Are you sure that English is your native language? You sure missed the joke there.
Use the best guess
Are you sure that you guys understand the difference between grammar complaints, and my complaints which are completely different? I don't care if you speak broken English, or perfect English, I do care, when you start attacking me, and harassing me, and making new accounts just to troll me, and down vote my account(questions\topics\etc), etc,. Do try to keep up with the conversation.
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One of the biggest issues I've had on this site, and others, is with people who don't natively speak English. Some of them are very nice, and cool people. However, some of them, like to argue with you, despite barely being able to understand you. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind foreigners, however, I do mind the people in question, the ones who will blindly attack me, when in reality, it's their own fault. To clarify, I wouldn't go to a Japanese forum, and argue with people in Japanese, because, I don't properly understand the language, and a debate of any kind requires understanding. (As do conversations in general.) Do, you see where I'm coming from? I just don't understand the logic of these people, are they just stupid, international trolls, I don't know. ? I would almost suggest they stick to forums that cater to their own language, at least until they get a better grip on the English language, and can have rational conversations. And okay, let's say they do come to an English speaking forum, and haven't quite mastered the language, well, perhaps they should avoid debates until they can understand what's going on a bit better. Am I wrong here? Should I be more patient? Should I ignore them when they act up? I've been arguing with them, but it seems to go nowhere, but, if you do nothing, then, they're not going to learn, or stop. (Can I report this behavior?) What do you guys think?
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One of the biggest issues I've had on this site, and others, is with people who don't natively speak English. Some of them are very nice, and cool people. However, some of them, like to argue with you, despite barely being able to understand you. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind foreigners, however, I do mind the people in question, the ones who will blindly attack me, when in reality, it's their own fault. To clarify, I wouldn't go to a Japanese forum, and argue with people in Japanese, because, I don't properly understand the language, and a debate of any kind requires understanding. (As do conversations in general.) Do, you see where I'm coming from? I just don't understand the logic of these people, are they just stupid, international trolls, I don't know. ? I would almost suggest they stick to forums that cater to their own language, at least until they get a better grip on the English language, and can have rational conversations. And okay, let's say they do come to an English speaking forum, and haven't quite mastered the language, well, perhaps they should avoid debates until they can understand what's going on a bit better. Am I wrong here? Should I be more patient? Should I ignore them when they act up? I've been arguing with them, but it seems to go nowhere, but, if you do nothing, then, they're not going to learn, or stop. (Can I report this behavior?) What do you guys think?
I don't have a problem with the language barrier. I've got a problem with 2 kinds of people. 1) The people that bash on you when you don't give them the answer they want, usually it's they want their code written for them. 2) The cultural differences where they come here, ask a question, and then bash you for giving an answer because, in their culture apparently, it's an insult to tell them they're wrong about something. I see this coming more from the Middle East than anywhere else.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
You can do whatever you want in your own topics, have fun, I'm not the fun police. This is my topic, respect it, and me.
So, in other words, dissenters need not reply? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If you want to make your own site that does, feel free. And you ought to take it as a sign of respect that your pigheaded and mean-spirited posts on this topic haven't been reported into oblivion.
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Joe_Dert wrote:
Not everything is a joke, nor should it be.
Disagree.
Joe_Dert wrote:
I'm all about fun, in the proper place, and time, but this, this is like having a clown at a funeral, it's not funny, at all.
Again, disagree: supposing Bobo the clown died: who do you expect to turn up at the funeral if not a bunch of clowns? You really have no sense of humor. At all.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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Nish Sivakumar wrote:
And also perhaps that he is completely blind to sarcasm! :)
Come on Nish! Stop poking the Yanks. You know the don't get sarcasm, even when in a sarcasm block.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
Hey, some of us do. We're not all ignorant hicks, just like not all Aussies are drunken fools! :laugh:
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One of the biggest issues I've had on this site, and others, is with people who don't natively speak English. Some of them are very nice, and cool people. However, some of them, like to argue with you, despite barely being able to understand you. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind foreigners, however, I do mind the people in question, the ones who will blindly attack me, when in reality, it's their own fault. To clarify, I wouldn't go to a Japanese forum, and argue with people in Japanese, because, I don't properly understand the language, and a debate of any kind requires understanding. (As do conversations in general.) Do, you see where I'm coming from? I just don't understand the logic of these people, are they just stupid, international trolls, I don't know. ? I would almost suggest they stick to forums that cater to their own language, at least until they get a better grip on the English language, and can have rational conversations. And okay, let's say they do come to an English speaking forum, and haven't quite mastered the language, well, perhaps they should avoid debates until they can understand what's going on a bit better. Am I wrong here? Should I be more patient? Should I ignore them when they act up? I've been arguing with them, but it seems to go nowhere, but, if you do nothing, then, they're not going to learn, or stop. (Can I report this behavior?) What do you guys think?
Another factor is that if all their friends/family only speak poor/broken English they're not going to get any better practicing with them. Related to that is that if something is very difficult to do you tend to only do it for stuff you really care about. When your side of an argument is losing certainly qualifies (if your side is winning there's no need to do much more than post
<AOL>Me To!</AOL>[sic]). I've seen this happen elsewhere; and a decade of determined posting later the individual I'm thinking of's writing has gone from broken sub-roundtripped BableFish sentences to the fluent if obviously non a native speaker level. Lastly, while I can't prove it: as X's English improved his tone became less confrontational, I suspect this was at least in part because of poor word choice and not understanding how it affected his meaning.Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
A link to the relevant discussion, please?
I think he got into an argument with S A Kryukov :-)
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com The life of a Malayalee American - by Nish
An article I recently wrote for an event souvenir
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I have to say, I'm not the one getting a brand new orifice ripped by a number of people for being a dick: you need to learn/understand what sarcasm is and accept that, on current evidence, you have had a humor bypass.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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Hey, some of us do. We're not all ignorant hicks, just like not all Aussies are drunken fools! :laugh:
Marc A. Brown wrote:
Hey, some of us do. We're not all ignorant hicks
Yes you are.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
just like not all Aussies are drunken fools! :laugh:
Yes we are.
>Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Joe_Dert wrote:
Not everything is a joke, nor should it be.
Disagree.
Joe_Dert wrote:
I'm all about fun, in the proper place, and time, but this, this is like having a clown at a funeral, it's not funny, at all.
Again, disagree: supposing Bobo the clown died: who do you expect to turn up at the funeral if not a bunch of clowns? You really have no sense of humor. At all.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
Again, disagree: supposing Bobo the clown died: who do you expect to turn up at the funeral if not a bunch of clowns?
Genuinely PMSL. :thumbsup:
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
FTFY! :)
Rubbish, it was a waste of an A and an N.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Yes, I did. He's abrasive, he fails to read\understand topics, and makes ridiculous suggestions that generally have nothing to do with any sort of actual solution. But, he had little to do with this topic, he's a minor fraction of the problem.
Why didn't you say so! I have gotten into it with SAK over language issues (see here). He is very... *searches for kind phrasing*... set in his opinions. In any event, he's a great help to the site... I'd just let him keep doing his thing.