Question: Language Barrier
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One of the biggest issues I've had on this site, and others, is with people who don't natively speak English. Some of them are very nice, and cool people. However, some of them, like to argue with you, despite barely being able to understand you. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind foreigners, however, I do mind the people in question, the ones who will blindly attack me, when in reality, it's their own fault. To clarify, I wouldn't go to a Japanese forum, and argue with people in Japanese, because, I don't properly understand the language, and a debate of any kind requires understanding. (As do conversations in general.) Do, you see where I'm coming from? I just don't understand the logic of these people, are they just stupid, international trolls, I don't know. ? I would almost suggest they stick to forums that cater to their own language, at least until they get a better grip on the English language, and can have rational conversations. And okay, let's say they do come to an English speaking forum, and haven't quite mastered the language, well, perhaps they should avoid debates until they can understand what's going on a bit better. Am I wrong here? Should I be more patient? Should I ignore them when they act up? I've been arguing with them, but it seems to go nowhere, but, if you do nothing, then, they're not going to learn, or stop. (Can I report this behavior?) What do you guys think?
Another factor is that if all their friends/family only speak poor/broken English they're not going to get any better practicing with them. Related to that is that if something is very difficult to do you tend to only do it for stuff you really care about. When your side of an argument is losing certainly qualifies (if your side is winning there's no need to do much more than post
<AOL>Me To!</AOL>[sic]). I've seen this happen elsewhere; and a decade of determined posting later the individual I'm thinking of's writing has gone from broken sub-roundtripped BableFish sentences to the fluent if obviously non a native speaker level. Lastly, while I can't prove it: as X's English improved his tone became less confrontational, I suspect this was at least in part because of poor word choice and not understanding how it affected his meaning.Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
A link to the relevant discussion, please?
I think he got into an argument with S A Kryukov :-)
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com The life of a Malayalee American - by Nish
An article I recently wrote for an event souvenir
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I have to say, I'm not the one getting a brand new orifice ripped by a number of people for being a dick: you need to learn/understand what sarcasm is and accept that, on current evidence, you have had a humor bypass.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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Hey, some of us do. We're not all ignorant hicks, just like not all Aussies are drunken fools! :laugh:
Marc A. Brown wrote:
Hey, some of us do. We're not all ignorant hicks
Yes you are.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
just like not all Aussies are drunken fools! :laugh:
Yes we are.
>Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Joe_Dert wrote:
Not everything is a joke, nor should it be.
Disagree.
Joe_Dert wrote:
I'm all about fun, in the proper place, and time, but this, this is like having a clown at a funeral, it's not funny, at all.
Again, disagree: supposing Bobo the clown died: who do you expect to turn up at the funeral if not a bunch of clowns? You really have no sense of humor. At all.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
Again, disagree: supposing Bobo the clown died: who do you expect to turn up at the funeral if not a bunch of clowns?
Genuinely PMSL. :thumbsup:
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
FTFY! :)
Rubbish, it was a waste of an A and an N.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Yes, I did. He's abrasive, he fails to read\understand topics, and makes ridiculous suggestions that generally have nothing to do with any sort of actual solution. But, he had little to do with this topic, he's a minor fraction of the problem.
Why didn't you say so! I have gotten into it with SAK over language issues (see here). He is very... *searches for kind phrasing*... set in his opinions. In any event, he's a great help to the site... I'd just let him keep doing his thing.
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Joe_Dert wrote:
It's rude to argue with people in a language you don't understand.
Really? Well you must be such a superior person that you can discount the entire population of the world apart from those who speak in a way that is acceptable to you. Talking of being a jerk ...
Use the best guess
I have plenty of friends who don't speak English natively, don't act like you know me. This whole topic is about: People who try to argue\debate in languages that they don't understand well enough to be doing so. That's hardly a LARGE portion of the worlds population, most people have enough sense not to be doing this.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
FTFY! :)
Rubbish, it was a waste of an A and an N.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I don't think you understand. I'm trying to have a serious conversation about an issue caused by the language barrier. This really isn't the place or time for trolling, grow up.
I think I've worked out why you always argue with people who are not native English speakers. I've also just checked, and apparently you're not in charge of the Internet. I know, I was surprised too.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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You can do whatever you want in your own topics, have fun, I'm not the fun police. This is my topic, respect it, and me.
Joe_Dert wrote:
You can do whatever you want in your own topics, have fun, I'm not the fun police.
This is my topic, respect it, and me.Wrong. I exist to piss in the corn flakes of twat whiners who post here.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
You wasted 4 ANs to tell me that. One Ann(e) would have sufficed. :)
An, an, an, an, an, an, etc.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Hey, some of us do. We're not all ignorant hicks, just like not all Aussies are drunken fools! :laugh:
I believe you just proved your point. :)
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES! Abraham Lincoln
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Another factor is that if all their friends/family only speak poor/broken English they're not going to get any better practicing with them. Related to that is that if something is very difficult to do you tend to only do it for stuff you really care about. When your side of an argument is losing certainly qualifies (if your side is winning there's no need to do much more than post
<AOL>Me To!</AOL>[sic]). I've seen this happen elsewhere; and a decade of determined posting later the individual I'm thinking of's writing has gone from broken sub-roundtripped BableFish sentences to the fluent if obviously non a native speaker level. Lastly, while I can't prove it: as X's English improved his tone became less confrontational, I suspect this was at least in part because of poor word choice and not understanding how it affected his meaning.Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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as X's English improved his tone became less confrontational, I suspect this was at least in part because of poor word choice and not understanding how it affected his meaning.
No, X got milder as he got older... Now seriously: there is such a thing as cultural impedance. It happened a few months ago to Luis Suárez (using a word that is an insult in English, and just a word in Spanish); a few decades ago, I had to ask an American friend to explain me a joke, because that same word was in the punchline. In my opinion, the OP may: 1. When reading something that sounds abrasive due to a poor choice of words, take into account that possibility; maybe even with a comment like 'by the way, such and such expression is considered rude in English, although I understand it may be different in your language'. 2. When reading an insult that was obviously and unequivocally meant to hurt, fight back. A mix of gibberish and movie quotes, with a LMGTFY link may do the trick. 3. Consider not feeding the trolls. You may find some occasionally in the Q&A.
Pablo. "Accident: An inevitable occurrence due to the action of immutable natural laws." (Ambrose Bierce, circa 1899).
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So, in other words, dissenters need not reply? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If you want to make your own site that does, feel free. And you ought to take it as a sign of respect that your pigheaded and mean-spirited posts on this topic haven't been reported into oblivion.
Hold on, I'm confused. I thought the LOUNGE was all about, doing whatever we wanted? You can't have it both ways, can I say whatever I want here, or not? (According to you, and another poster, you can do whatever you want, because it's the lounge, so, which is it?)
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Joe_Dert wrote:
You can do whatever you want in your own topics, have fun, I'm not the fun police.
This is my topic, respect it, and me.Wrong. I exist to piss in the corn flakes of twat whiners who post here.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I have to say, I'm not the one getting a brand new orifice ripped by a number of people for being a dick: you need to learn/understand what sarcasm is and accept that, on current evidence, you have had a humor bypass.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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Quote:
as X's English improved his tone became less confrontational, I suspect this was at least in part because of poor word choice and not understanding how it affected his meaning.
No, X got milder as he got older... Now seriously: there is such a thing as cultural impedance. It happened a few months ago to Luis Suárez (using a word that is an insult in English, and just a word in Spanish); a few decades ago, I had to ask an American friend to explain me a joke, because that same word was in the punchline. In my opinion, the OP may: 1. When reading something that sounds abrasive due to a poor choice of words, take into account that possibility; maybe even with a comment like 'by the way, such and such expression is considered rude in English, although I understand it may be different in your language'. 2. When reading an insult that was obviously and unequivocally meant to hurt, fight back. A mix of gibberish and movie quotes, with a LMGTFY link may do the trick. 3. Consider not feeding the trolls. You may find some occasionally in the Q&A.
Pablo. "Accident: An inevitable occurrence due to the action of immutable natural laws." (Ambrose Bierce, circa 1899).
Pablo Aliskevicius wrote:
Quote:
as X's English improved his tone became less confrontational, I suspect this was at least in part because of poor word choice and not understanding how it affected his meaning.
No, X got milder as he got older...
... I didn't mention it originally since despite using him as an example I was trying to keep it fairly generic; but my assessment was, IIRC, shared by a few users who were bi-lingual and able to converse with Mr X in his native language.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I have to say, I'm not the one getting a brand new orifice ripped
Neither am I. Unless of course you consider these pathetic troll post to be of some substance. (I don't.)
Joe_Dert wrote:
Neither am I.
And yet the evidence is to the contrary.
Joe_Dert wrote:
Unless of course you consider these pathetic troll post to be of some substance. (I don't.)
You think I'm a troll? No, not with 200k rep points: I'd have been busted a long time ago. No, what you are singularly failing to get is that I'm taking the piss out of you. If you intend to have a full and rich life here on CP (no reason why you shouldn't if you can learn to give AND take it) you need to get used to it or stop making dumb posts (Not your original post but the ones where you don't get it).
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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Quote:
as X's English improved his tone became less confrontational, I suspect this was at least in part because of poor word choice and not understanding how it affected his meaning.
No, X got milder as he got older... Now seriously: there is such a thing as cultural impedance. It happened a few months ago to Luis Suárez (using a word that is an insult in English, and just a word in Spanish); a few decades ago, I had to ask an American friend to explain me a joke, because that same word was in the punchline. In my opinion, the OP may: 1. When reading something that sounds abrasive due to a poor choice of words, take into account that possibility; maybe even with a comment like 'by the way, such and such expression is considered rude in English, although I understand it may be different in your language'. 2. When reading an insult that was obviously and unequivocally meant to hurt, fight back. A mix of gibberish and movie quotes, with a LMGTFY link may do the trick. 3. Consider not feeding the trolls. You may find some occasionally in the Q&A.
Pablo. "Accident: An inevitable occurrence due to the action of immutable natural laws." (Ambrose Bierce, circa 1899).
Quote:
2. When reading an insult that was obviously and unequivocally meant to hurt, fight back. A mix of gibberish and movie quotes, with a LMGTFY link may do the trick.
You're my new hero. :D
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3. Consider not feeding the trolls. You may find some occasionally in the Q&A.
Yeah, I need to work on that one a bit. :(