Educational Use - Apple/Google/Microsoft?
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**Question 1)**Picture the scene, you are a school that is looking to review the use of technology in the classroom (i.e. defining future digital strategy). Let's consider you are looking at the age group 5 to 12 (Primary1 to P7). You may require that parent purchase devices in the future. You will also be possibly issuing to teachers etc. Taking all things into consideration, i.e. devices, usability, platform, the eco systems and tooling/services of the companies, Would you go for a) Microsoft + Surface b) Google + Android (using Galaxy Tabs/Notes and/or possibly Chromebooks) c) Apple + iPad (+ keyboard) My thoughts were with Google+Android, because a) Devices generally cheaper, b) syncronised platform across web/tablet/phone c) product spectrum of underyling services and platforms d) more open platform Question 2) What are your immediate thoughts to this statement: "We have carried out a very thorough process of due diligence with regard to choosing a preferred device. We tested 9 different devices across 14 members of staff with others joining in. Drop-in sessions, informal meetings, research at other schools, a formal online response and surveys of staff and pupil use of devices all helped to inform our final preference, which is for iPads, supported as needed by keyboards. Our aim is that the whole school will be wireless enabled by this autumn. Staff will be equipped with iPads in order to research and develop their use in the classroom and their support for the curriculum over the next school year. Some class sets will be available for testing material with teaching groups." Note: this is as a result of my kids school issuing the statement in Q2 (which was part of a larger email). My kids already have android tablets and chromebooks. I'll be fkd if i'm buying iPads.:mad:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
5-12 year olds don't need £300 pieces of electronics, whichever manufacturer it's from. This is a massive waste of educational resources, and a disgrace when budgets and services are being cut. Additionally, parents should never be expected to buy expensive kit for their children to take part in education. School is for developing fundamental skills in language, maths and logic, and the ability to think critically and analytically, to set you up for life. All of that is device agnostic, to the extent of it being fine on paper.
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Keith Barrow wrote:
Not provide a parent's card details at registration is a biggie.
??? No idea what this even means.
Keith Barrow wrote:
OK, not aged 8, but aged 9 I was beginning to write software for the Sinclair Spectrum, by aged 12 I was pretty proficient, certainly better at BASIC than my primary school teacher. I don't see why today's kids need be any different.
I said "typical" 8 year old. You guys need to stop thinking like developers, power users and all around tech gods. The average tablet user (particularly very young children and teachers) have no interest in writing code. The vast majority of the time they will use a tablet (or a PC) to consume data (eBooks, educational apps, web content, educational games, etc...). The small time they are generating data will likely be using writing / presentation / multimedia tools. Only a very, VERY small percentage would even consider writing an app on any platform.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Only a very, VERY small percentage would even consider writing an app on any platform.
Learning to code is to be taught to all children from age 7 in the UK. Or at least that was the plan in a report drawn up at the end of last year, may have changed by now.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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5-12 year olds don't need £300 pieces of electronics, whichever manufacturer it's from. This is a massive waste of educational resources, and a disgrace when budgets and services are being cut. Additionally, parents should never be expected to buy expensive kit for their children to take part in education. School is for developing fundamental skills in language, maths and logic, and the ability to think critically and analytically, to set you up for life. All of that is device agnostic, to the extent of it being fine on paper.
BobJanova wrote:
parents should never be expected to buy expensive kit for their children to take part in education
You're not up to date with private education are you. £££££ :sigh:
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
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5-12 year olds don't need £300 pieces of electronics, whichever manufacturer it's from. This is a massive waste of educational resources, and a disgrace when budgets and services are being cut. Additionally, parents should never be expected to buy expensive kit for their children to take part in education. School is for developing fundamental skills in language, maths and logic, and the ability to think critically and analytically, to set you up for life. All of that is device agnostic, to the extent of it being fine on paper.
Agree in principle. However, my two were brought up on technology and they are streets ahead of their peers which is putting them at an advantage now and in the future. However, they still haven't lost core fundamentals in the 3Rs. My youngest does like to pick here nose a lot. She doesn't even know she does it now. Muscle memory has set it. Don't think the 3Rs or any iPad will help there :doh:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
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5-12 year olds don't need £300 pieces of electronics, whichever manufacturer it's from. This is a massive waste of educational resources, and a disgrace when budgets and services are being cut. Additionally, parents should never be expected to buy expensive kit for their children to take part in education. School is for developing fundamental skills in language, maths and logic, and the ability to think critically and analytically, to set you up for life. All of that is device agnostic, to the extent of it being fine on paper.
BobJanova wrote:
School is for developing fundamental skills in language, maths and logic, and the ability to think critically and analytically, to set you up for life. All of that is device agnostic,
Agree 100%
BobJanova wrote:
to the extent of it being fine on paper.
Maybe... maybe not. I don't put a lot of faith in schools / teachers using technology effectively. I've personally seen technology (and the money thrown at it) wasted more often than not in primary schools. But... when done right... it can certainly be more efficient and effective than paper (look at most modern offices compared to 30 years ago) and the students that benefit from it will have an advantage.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Only a very, VERY small percentage would even consider writing an app on any platform.
Learning to code is to be taught to all children from age 7 in the UK. Or at least that was the plan in a report drawn up at the end of last year, may have changed by now.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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ChrisElston wrote:
Learning to code is to be taught to all children from age 7 in the UK.
Good luck with that...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
That's OK, I'm not going to be teaching them. I'm 38, we were all taught to code in some form of Basic and other simply stuff from around age 12 in what was called CDT - Computer Design Technology.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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Keith Barrow wrote:
Not provide a parent's card details at registration is a biggie.
??? No idea what this even means.
Keith Barrow wrote:
OK, not aged 8, but aged 9 I was beginning to write software for the Sinclair Spectrum, by aged 12 I was pretty proficient, certainly better at BASIC than my primary school teacher. I don't see why today's kids need be any different.
I said "typical" 8 year old. You guys need to stop thinking like developers, power users and all around tech gods. The average tablet user (particularly very young children and teachers) have no interest in writing code. The vast majority of the time they will use a tablet (or a PC) to consume data (eBooks, educational apps, web content, educational games, etc...). The small time they are generating data will likely be using writing / presentation / multimedia tools. Only a very, VERY small percentage would even consider writing an app on any platform.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
No idea what this even means.
You must provide credit/debit card details when registering for iTunes, and you must register for iTunes to use your device. c.f. Android: you need a Google account. Again, I don't know about MS. All I hear in your reply is this: "Let's academically race to the middle, let's preclude anyone who might be interested in encouraging their kids in the more technical aspects of IT from doing so, and lets be happy that if they achieve the equivalent IT proficiency of data-entry clerk." Sorry, but I'd be unhappy if my son weren't allowed the chance (by hardware choice) to look at geekier pastimes simply because some committee decided they wanted iPads. He might not enjoy it, but that is up to him & I wouldn't want that to stop other kids having better opportunities in this direction.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
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That's OK, I'm not going to be teaching them. I'm 38, we were all taught to code in some form of Basic and other simply stuff from around age 12 in what was called CDT - Computer Design Technology.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
we were all taught to code in some form of Basic
Which can certainly be done within a specially created app on any platform. I'm all for exposing students to many different technologies, ideas, points of view, arts, trades, etc... and it starts with parents putting their own biases (technology, politics, religion, etc...) on the back burner and opening their eyes.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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ChrisElston wrote:
Learning to code is to be taught to all children from age 7 in the UK.
Good luck with that...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
We were using a Turtle & LOGO[^] at that age. I went to a bog-standard state school in a poor area, most of the kids enjoyed it, and learned the basics of looping, functions etc, as well as some maths.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
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Please explain to this poor ignorant sod what wonderful things the typical 8 year old will do with an Android tablet that they cannot do with a Surface or iPad?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
How about connect to a local network, access the file system, and open a file either in its default application, or in another one that you choose to open it in. There are (third-party) iToy apps that let you connect and see files, but those apps either have to include handlers for the file types you want to open, or you have to download a copy of each file you want to open for each application you want to open it in. That's one thing. There are dozens more, mostly revolved around the locked-in behaviour of iToys. If they teach the children how to jailbreak iToys, they will be able to do more, but never as much.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
No idea what this even means.
You must provide credit/debit card details when registering for iTunes, and you must register for iTunes to use your device. c.f. Android: you need a Google account. Again, I don't know about MS. All I hear in your reply is this: "Let's academically race to the middle, let's preclude anyone who might be interested in encouraging their kids in the more technical aspects of IT from doing so, and lets be happy that if they achieve the equivalent IT proficiency of data-entry clerk." Sorry, but I'd be unhappy if my son weren't allowed the chance (by hardware choice) to look at geekier pastimes simply because some committee decided they wanted iPads. He might not enjoy it, but that is up to him & I wouldn't want that to stop other kids having better opportunities in this direction.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
Keith Barrow wrote:
All I hear in your reply is this: ...
Apparently you're "hearing" things I didn't write. :~ Who knew that a choice of tablet platform in primary school had such far reaching effects as to deny your child his only chance in life. :confused:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
No idea what this even means.
You must provide credit/debit card details when registering for iTunes, and you must register for iTunes to use your device. c.f. Android: you need a Google account. Again, I don't know about MS. All I hear in your reply is this: "Let's academically race to the middle, let's preclude anyone who might be interested in encouraging their kids in the more technical aspects of IT from doing so, and lets be happy that if they achieve the equivalent IT proficiency of data-entry clerk." Sorry, but I'd be unhappy if my son weren't allowed the chance (by hardware choice) to look at geekier pastimes simply because some committee decided they wanted iPads. He might not enjoy it, but that is up to him & I wouldn't want that to stop other kids having better opportunities in this direction.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
Keith Barrow wrote:
I'd be unhappy if my son weren't allowed the chance (by hardware choice) to look at geekier pastimes simply because some committee decided they wanted iPads. He might not enjoy it, but that is up to him & I wouldn't want that to stop other kids having better opportunities in this direction
On the other hand being that you don't have to be a geek to use an android device. You can use it exactly like an iToy, if you choose to do so.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Keith Barrow wrote:
All I hear in your reply is this: ...
Apparently you're "hearing" things I didn't write. :~ Who knew that a choice of tablet platform in primary school had such far reaching effects as to deny your child his only chance in life. :confused:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Who knew that a choice of tablet platform in primary school had such far reaching effects as to deny your child his only chance in life
I'd call that a radical re-interpretation of what I said.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
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Keith Barrow wrote:
I'd be unhappy if my son weren't allowed the chance (by hardware choice) to look at geekier pastimes simply because some committee decided they wanted iPads. He might not enjoy it, but that is up to him & I wouldn't want that to stop other kids having better opportunities in this direction
On the other hand being that you don't have to be a geek to use an android device. You can use it exactly like an iToy, if you choose to do so.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Exactly - flexible, and at less cost.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
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How about connect to a local network, access the file system, and open a file either in its default application, or in another one that you choose to open it in. There are (third-party) iToy apps that let you connect and see files, but those apps either have to include handlers for the file types you want to open, or you have to download a copy of each file you want to open for each application you want to open it in. That's one thing. There are dozens more, mostly revolved around the locked-in behaviour of iToys. If they teach the children how to jailbreak iToys, they will be able to do more, but never as much.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Your use of the term "iToys" tells me your mind is closed. Just as bad as the fools who refer to Microsoft as M$. Folks like you give tech people a bad name...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Who knew that a choice of tablet platform in primary school had such far reaching effects as to deny your child his only chance in life
I'd call that a radical re-interpretation of what I said.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
-
Agree in principle. However, my two were brought up on technology and they are streets ahead of their peers which is putting them at an advantage now and in the future. However, they still haven't lost core fundamentals in the 3Rs. My youngest does like to pick here nose a lot. She doesn't even know she does it now. Muscle memory has set it. Don't think the 3Rs or any iPad will help there :doh:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
DaveAuld wrote:
My youngest does like to pick here nose a lot. She doesn't even know she does it now. Muscle memory has set it.
Remind me never to borrow anything with a touch screen from her.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Your use of the term "iToys" tells me your mind is closed. Just as bad as the fools who refer to Microsoft as M$. Folks like you give tech people a bad name...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Your use of the term "iToys"
... Says it like it is. They are not serious computing devices, they are leisure tools. I'm actually very happy with my iToy 3, but I know enough to not get all huffy with people who speak honestly and talk truth about them -- and, of course, I don't use it for anything serious, because it is not equipped for doing anything serious (especially since it is regularly "backed up" to apple servers). If you want to teach children about computer technology, you don't give them a TV set, you don't give them a microwave oven, and you don't give them an iToy -- all three have plenty of computing power -- you give them computer technology that behaves like a computer. Note that I'm also very happy with my TV set and my microwave oven, which, like the iToy, are good for what they do, and would also provide about the same value in teaching about computer technology.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Your use of the term "iToys"
... Says it like it is. They are not serious computing devices, they are leisure tools. I'm actually very happy with my iToy 3, but I know enough to not get all huffy with people who speak honestly and talk truth about them -- and, of course, I don't use it for anything serious, because it is not equipped for doing anything serious (especially since it is regularly "backed up" to apple servers). If you want to teach children about computer technology, you don't give them a TV set, you don't give them a microwave oven, and you don't give them an iToy -- all three have plenty of computing power -- you give them computer technology that behaves like a computer. Note that I'm also very happy with my TV set and my microwave oven, which, like the iToy, are good for what they do, and would also provide about the same value in teaching about computer technology.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Gee, you're right - because all the apps on iPads (and MS Surfaces) were created by magic elves - not human developers who learned programming skills and applied them to silicon and electronics to perform specific tasks. Give us a break! Since you seem to believe that tablets in primary schools are useful only for students to learn professional development techniques I suggest we also require parents to buy high-end dev boxes for the little nippers and send them off to developers conferences over the summer. :rolleyes:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington