Educational Use - Apple/Google/Microsoft?
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Who knew that a choice of tablet platform in primary school had such far reaching effects as to deny your child his only chance in life
I'd call that a radical re-interpretation of what I said.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
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Agree in principle. However, my two were brought up on technology and they are streets ahead of their peers which is putting them at an advantage now and in the future. However, they still haven't lost core fundamentals in the 3Rs. My youngest does like to pick here nose a lot. She doesn't even know she does it now. Muscle memory has set it. Don't think the 3Rs or any iPad will help there :doh:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
DaveAuld wrote:
My youngest does like to pick here nose a lot. She doesn't even know she does it now. Muscle memory has set it.
Remind me never to borrow anything with a touch screen from her.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Your use of the term "iToys" tells me your mind is closed. Just as bad as the fools who refer to Microsoft as M$. Folks like you give tech people a bad name...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Your use of the term "iToys"
... Says it like it is. They are not serious computing devices, they are leisure tools. I'm actually very happy with my iToy 3, but I know enough to not get all huffy with people who speak honestly and talk truth about them -- and, of course, I don't use it for anything serious, because it is not equipped for doing anything serious (especially since it is regularly "backed up" to apple servers). If you want to teach children about computer technology, you don't give them a TV set, you don't give them a microwave oven, and you don't give them an iToy -- all three have plenty of computing power -- you give them computer technology that behaves like a computer. Note that I'm also very happy with my TV set and my microwave oven, which, like the iToy, are good for what they do, and would also provide about the same value in teaching about computer technology.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Your use of the term "iToys"
... Says it like it is. They are not serious computing devices, they are leisure tools. I'm actually very happy with my iToy 3, but I know enough to not get all huffy with people who speak honestly and talk truth about them -- and, of course, I don't use it for anything serious, because it is not equipped for doing anything serious (especially since it is regularly "backed up" to apple servers). If you want to teach children about computer technology, you don't give them a TV set, you don't give them a microwave oven, and you don't give them an iToy -- all three have plenty of computing power -- you give them computer technology that behaves like a computer. Note that I'm also very happy with my TV set and my microwave oven, which, like the iToy, are good for what they do, and would also provide about the same value in teaching about computer technology.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Gee, you're right - because all the apps on iPads (and MS Surfaces) were created by magic elves - not human developers who learned programming skills and applied them to silicon and electronics to perform specific tasks. Give us a break! Since you seem to believe that tablets in primary schools are useful only for students to learn professional development techniques I suggest we also require parents to buy high-end dev boxes for the little nippers and send them off to developers conferences over the summer. :rolleyes:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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DaveAuld wrote:
My youngest does like to pick here nose a lot. She doesn't even know she does it now. Muscle memory has set it.
Remind me never to borrow anything with a touch screen from her.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Waaaaay back in the day I used to be a techie for social services. The worst job was to visit the day centre for the mentally/physically handicapped to deal with the god-knows-what-encrusted touch screen overlays they used to use. Normally the crust caused the failure in the first place X|
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
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**Question 1)**Picture the scene, you are a school that is looking to review the use of technology in the classroom (i.e. defining future digital strategy). Let's consider you are looking at the age group 5 to 12 (Primary1 to P7). You may require that parent purchase devices in the future. You will also be possibly issuing to teachers etc. Taking all things into consideration, i.e. devices, usability, platform, the eco systems and tooling/services of the companies, Would you go for a) Microsoft + Surface b) Google + Android (using Galaxy Tabs/Notes and/or possibly Chromebooks) c) Apple + iPad (+ keyboard) My thoughts were with Google+Android, because a) Devices generally cheaper, b) syncronised platform across web/tablet/phone c) product spectrum of underyling services and platforms d) more open platform Question 2) What are your immediate thoughts to this statement: "We have carried out a very thorough process of due diligence with regard to choosing a preferred device. We tested 9 different devices across 14 members of staff with others joining in. Drop-in sessions, informal meetings, research at other schools, a formal online response and surveys of staff and pupil use of devices all helped to inform our final preference, which is for iPads, supported as needed by keyboards. Our aim is that the whole school will be wireless enabled by this autumn. Staff will be equipped with iPads in order to research and develop their use in the classroom and their support for the curriculum over the next school year. Some class sets will be available for testing material with teaching groups." Note: this is as a result of my kids school issuing the statement in Q2 (which was part of a larger email). My kids already have android tablets and chromebooks. I'll be fkd if i'm buying iPads.:mad:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
DaveAuld wrote:
all helped to inform our final preference, which is for iPads, supported as needed by keyboards.
Come on, don't the Nexus ones have key board support... Galaxy Tab 2 too comes with USB 2.0
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**Question 1)**Picture the scene, you are a school that is looking to review the use of technology in the classroom (i.e. defining future digital strategy). Let's consider you are looking at the age group 5 to 12 (Primary1 to P7). You may require that parent purchase devices in the future. You will also be possibly issuing to teachers etc. Taking all things into consideration, i.e. devices, usability, platform, the eco systems and tooling/services of the companies, Would you go for a) Microsoft + Surface b) Google + Android (using Galaxy Tabs/Notes and/or possibly Chromebooks) c) Apple + iPad (+ keyboard) My thoughts were with Google+Android, because a) Devices generally cheaper, b) syncronised platform across web/tablet/phone c) product spectrum of underyling services and platforms d) more open platform Question 2) What are your immediate thoughts to this statement: "We have carried out a very thorough process of due diligence with regard to choosing a preferred device. We tested 9 different devices across 14 members of staff with others joining in. Drop-in sessions, informal meetings, research at other schools, a formal online response and surveys of staff and pupil use of devices all helped to inform our final preference, which is for iPads, supported as needed by keyboards. Our aim is that the whole school will be wireless enabled by this autumn. Staff will be equipped with iPads in order to research and develop their use in the classroom and their support for the curriculum over the next school year. Some class sets will be available for testing material with teaching groups." Note: this is as a result of my kids school issuing the statement in Q2 (which was part of a larger email). My kids already have android tablets and chromebooks. I'll be fkd if i'm buying iPads.:mad:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
People who studied subjects in which the grade depends on agreement with the teacher - ie, the "fuzzy subjects" - were all trained on Apple products, then grew up to become "educators." Apple has been quite generous over the years with ensuring that schools use Apple products, and this is the payoff they were gambling for. You may as well go over to the Dark Side, since I doubt that you'll have any success arguing with them. Educators aren't typically bright enough to have a decent argument with, having never learned the art of logic in school. In the meantime, though, why not write an Android-based iPad emulator? :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
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People who studied subjects in which the grade depends on agreement with the teacher - ie, the "fuzzy subjects" - were all trained on Apple products, then grew up to become "educators." Apple has been quite generous over the years with ensuring that schools use Apple products, and this is the payoff they were gambling for. You may as well go over to the Dark Side, since I doubt that you'll have any success arguing with them. Educators aren't typically bright enough to have a decent argument with, having never learned the art of logic in school. In the meantime, though, why not write an Android-based iPad emulator? :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
Android-based iPad emulator
So it prevents you from doing anything useful with your Android device?
BDF The internet makes dumb people dumber and clever people cleverer. -- PaulowniaK
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Roger Wright wrote:
Android-based iPad emulator
So it prevents you from doing anything useful with your Android device?
BDF The internet makes dumb people dumber and clever people cleverer. -- PaulowniaK
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Will Rogers never met me.
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Not provide a parent's card details at registration is a biggie. OK, not aged 8, but aged 9 I was beginning to write software for the Sinclair Spectrum, by aged 12 I was pretty proficient, certainly better at BASIC than my primary school teacher. I don't see why today's kids need be any different. Deploying to Android: download the .apk file. Deploying to iPad: This[^] which (not explicitly stated requires you to register as a developer) or you could jailbreak it, which invalidates the warranty. Deploying to surface: ?????? - not even looked into it yet.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
For the Surface, it depends. With RT (and is suppose the associated version of Windows 8) you need to be able to license the app and have a compiler for ARM (which I think is only in the paid version of Visual Studio). For Pro it is the same as any desktop, laptop, or tablet that contains an Intel processor. Cause that is what it is: a small ultrabook that happens to be the same form factor as the Surface RT. And you could remove Windows from it and install Linux, though I imagine that would void the warranty.
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Keith Barrow wrote:
Not provide a parent's card details at registration is a biggie.
??? No idea what this even means.
Keith Barrow wrote:
OK, not aged 8, but aged 9 I was beginning to write software for the Sinclair Spectrum, by aged 12 I was pretty proficient, certainly better at BASIC than my primary school teacher. I don't see why today's kids need be any different.
I said "typical" 8 year old. You guys need to stop thinking like developers, power users and all around tech gods. The average tablet user (particularly very young children and teachers) have no interest in writing code. The vast majority of the time they will use a tablet (or a PC) to consume data (eBooks, educational apps, web content, educational games, etc...). The small time they are generating data will likely be using writing / presentation / multimedia tools. Only a very, VERY small percentage would even consider writing an app on any platform.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Well said and well put - exactly my thoughts.
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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**Question 1)**Picture the scene, you are a school that is looking to review the use of technology in the classroom (i.e. defining future digital strategy). Let's consider you are looking at the age group 5 to 12 (Primary1 to P7). You may require that parent purchase devices in the future. You will also be possibly issuing to teachers etc. Taking all things into consideration, i.e. devices, usability, platform, the eco systems and tooling/services of the companies, Would you go for a) Microsoft + Surface b) Google + Android (using Galaxy Tabs/Notes and/or possibly Chromebooks) c) Apple + iPad (+ keyboard) My thoughts were with Google+Android, because a) Devices generally cheaper, b) syncronised platform across web/tablet/phone c) product spectrum of underyling services and platforms d) more open platform Question 2) What are your immediate thoughts to this statement: "We have carried out a very thorough process of due diligence with regard to choosing a preferred device. We tested 9 different devices across 14 members of staff with others joining in. Drop-in sessions, informal meetings, research at other schools, a formal online response and surveys of staff and pupil use of devices all helped to inform our final preference, which is for iPads, supported as needed by keyboards. Our aim is that the whole school will be wireless enabled by this autumn. Staff will be equipped with iPads in order to research and develop their use in the classroom and their support for the curriculum over the next school year. Some class sets will be available for testing material with teaching groups." Note: this is as a result of my kids school issuing the statement in Q2 (which was part of a larger email). My kids already have android tablets and chromebooks. I'll be fkd if i'm buying iPads.:mad:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
Before everyone jumps onto the i* vs other shit bandwagon (oops, too late!) jsut what are teh littlies going to be doing with their devices? In my experience in a number of schools, not much more than treating them as books (officially) and playing games (unofficially) The HW platform is far less important than what they are being used for. The devices can be great for school management (teachers mark kids absent, office knows immediately, chase up with parent, msg teacher back - that sort of thing) and can be useful for students where resources could otherwise be limited (e.g. everyone can open a document and read it without the teacher resorting to photocopiers. It's interesting that many Silicon Valley employers send their kids to Steiner (Waldorf) schools - where technology is rarely used before senior level, and even then sparingly. I'd be asking what advantages to my child's education is giving them a tablet in the first place. Oh, and the reason idevices tend to get chosen (IMHO) is partly teacher familiarity and partly simple standardisation - there's less choice of specific device so it is easier to ensure all children have the same thing exactly - rather than with an Android device where parents will be saying "well, we've already got a Tesco Tablet, and that's running Android, so we're not shelling out for another one just the same"
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Keith Barrow wrote:
Not provide a parent's card details at registration is a biggie.
??? No idea what this even means.
Keith Barrow wrote:
OK, not aged 8, but aged 9 I was beginning to write software for the Sinclair Spectrum, by aged 12 I was pretty proficient, certainly better at BASIC than my primary school teacher. I don't see why today's kids need be any different.
I said "typical" 8 year old. You guys need to stop thinking like developers, power users and all around tech gods. The average tablet user (particularly very young children and teachers) have no interest in writing code. The vast majority of the time they will use a tablet (or a PC) to consume data (eBooks, educational apps, web content, educational games, etc...). The small time they are generating data will likely be using writing / presentation / multimedia tools. Only a very, VERY small percentage would even consider writing an app on any platform.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
That's where the rubber meets the road. Speccy's, C=64 & BBC when powered on booted to BASIC so you had to know at least how to type a few commands. Typing LOAD "" got a bit boring for most users so they ventured to PRINT "" and on from there...these days it takes effort to get a programming language so unless a parent, older sibling sets them up its Farcebook and other websites.
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**Question 1)**Picture the scene, you are a school that is looking to review the use of technology in the classroom (i.e. defining future digital strategy). Let's consider you are looking at the age group 5 to 12 (Primary1 to P7). You may require that parent purchase devices in the future. You will also be possibly issuing to teachers etc. Taking all things into consideration, i.e. devices, usability, platform, the eco systems and tooling/services of the companies, Would you go for a) Microsoft + Surface b) Google + Android (using Galaxy Tabs/Notes and/or possibly Chromebooks) c) Apple + iPad (+ keyboard) My thoughts were with Google+Android, because a) Devices generally cheaper, b) syncronised platform across web/tablet/phone c) product spectrum of underyling services and platforms d) more open platform Question 2) What are your immediate thoughts to this statement: "We have carried out a very thorough process of due diligence with regard to choosing a preferred device. We tested 9 different devices across 14 members of staff with others joining in. Drop-in sessions, informal meetings, research at other schools, a formal online response and surveys of staff and pupil use of devices all helped to inform our final preference, which is for iPads, supported as needed by keyboards. Our aim is that the whole school will be wireless enabled by this autumn. Staff will be equipped with iPads in order to research and develop their use in the classroom and their support for the curriculum over the next school year. Some class sets will be available for testing material with teaching groups." Note: this is as a result of my kids school issuing the statement in Q2 (which was part of a larger email). My kids already have android tablets and chromebooks. I'll be fkd if i'm buying iPads.:mad:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
Although I would come down firmly on the side of Android for this - for reasons of price, ease of use, lack of credit card and above all no need for "xStore" official developer status - I do wonder if we aren't confusing two different application scenarios. If the device is to be used simply for reading, communicating and learning then all the options are equal for the student, the question then becomes "which platform is the best for the teachers to use?" If we are wanting to teach students how to programme, interface with other equipment etc., then why not use the Raspberry Pi? After all that is what it was invented for! The more adventurous students can then build their own RaspPi tablet ;)
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Gee, you're right - because all the apps on iPads (and MS Surfaces) were created by magic elves - not human developers who learned programming skills and applied them to silicon and electronics to perform specific tasks. Give us a break! Since you seem to believe that tablets in primary schools are useful only for students to learn professional development techniques I suggest we also require parents to buy high-end dev boxes for the little nippers and send them off to developers conferences over the summer. :rolleyes:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Nothing to do with "professional development techniques", and I'll thank you to cease telling me what I'm thinking. Learning how to interact with a network, learning how to work with a file system, learning how to create and deal with files of all types, etc, etc, etc, all of these are ****ed up by apple's "tied-down" system of not allowing the user to treat a computer like a computer, and having to do everything by physically connecting the devices to computers so that you can interact with the machine *only with* their bloatware, which has to be installed on the master machine. That is where some of the main problems with using iToys are. I'll now return the favour of your deciding what I'm thinking and accusing me of being closed minded by filing you under apple-indoctrinated-w@nker/poseur. Children will learn a Hell of a lot more if they are given android devices to work with. That is fact. Get over your mindless adoration of apple, and think of what's best for the children.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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ChrisElston wrote:
Learning to code is to be taught to all children from age 7 in the UK.
Good luck with that...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Actually, my son's school used some educational software to teach the basics of programming (in flowchart form) from when he was 7. He was so excited I got him a copy to use at home.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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For the Surface, it depends. With RT (and is suppose the associated version of Windows 8) you need to be able to license the app and have a compiler for ARM (which I think is only in the paid version of Visual Studio). For Pro it is the same as any desktop, laptop, or tablet that contains an Intel processor. Cause that is what it is: a small ultrabook that happens to be the same form factor as the Surface RT. And you could remove Windows from it and install Linux, though I imagine that would void the warranty.
Unless you opt for TouchDevelop[^]
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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**Question 1)**Picture the scene, you are a school that is looking to review the use of technology in the classroom (i.e. defining future digital strategy). Let's consider you are looking at the age group 5 to 12 (Primary1 to P7). You may require that parent purchase devices in the future. You will also be possibly issuing to teachers etc. Taking all things into consideration, i.e. devices, usability, platform, the eco systems and tooling/services of the companies, Would you go for a) Microsoft + Surface b) Google + Android (using Galaxy Tabs/Notes and/or possibly Chromebooks) c) Apple + iPad (+ keyboard) My thoughts were with Google+Android, because a) Devices generally cheaper, b) syncronised platform across web/tablet/phone c) product spectrum of underyling services and platforms d) more open platform Question 2) What are your immediate thoughts to this statement: "We have carried out a very thorough process of due diligence with regard to choosing a preferred device. We tested 9 different devices across 14 members of staff with others joining in. Drop-in sessions, informal meetings, research at other schools, a formal online response and surveys of staff and pupil use of devices all helped to inform our final preference, which is for iPads, supported as needed by keyboards. Our aim is that the whole school will be wireless enabled by this autumn. Staff will be equipped with iPads in order to research and develop their use in the classroom and their support for the curriculum over the next school year. Some class sets will be available for testing material with teaching groups." Note: this is as a result of my kids school issuing the statement in Q2 (which was part of a larger email). My kids already have android tablets and chromebooks. I'll be fkd if i'm buying iPads.:mad:
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
I'd encourage the tool to use Web-based solutions, then it really wouldn't matter which they (or you) chose.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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Nothing to do with "professional development techniques", and I'll thank you to cease telling me what I'm thinking. Learning how to interact with a network, learning how to work with a file system, learning how to create and deal with files of all types, etc, etc, etc, all of these are ****ed up by apple's "tied-down" system of not allowing the user to treat a computer like a computer, and having to do everything by physically connecting the devices to computers so that you can interact with the machine *only with* their bloatware, which has to be installed on the master machine. That is where some of the main problems with using iToys are. I'll now return the favour of your deciding what I'm thinking and accusing me of being closed minded by filing you under apple-indoctrinated-w@nker/poseur. Children will learn a Hell of a lot more if they are given android devices to work with. That is fact. Get over your mindless adoration of apple, and think of what's best for the children.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I give up. I wonder how in love with Android you'll be if/when Google merges it with Chrome and completely kills all your prized network and file interactions? :laugh: :laugh: You realize that is their ultimate goal? Right?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Actually, my son's school used some educational software to teach the basics of programming (in flowchart form) from when he was 7. He was so excited I got him a copy to use at home.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.