Idiots to the left of me, idiots to the right
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
Sorry, I don't understand the question. :confused:
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
Chris wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
Hmm... In order to help, you need to provide your default aggressive impulse. * Remember stupidity is in most cases not curable. Even when it is, they are pretty sure not to listen to the advice, in some cases however manipulation such as reverse-psychology may prove useful.
Never underestimate the difference U can make in the lives of others.
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
I don't think you can avoid it. If there was an olympic discipline of violently throwing chairs at people who don't fucking listen, I'd be a medal contender. I've been in that situation a number of times, where my professional opinion has been overruled by someone with no technical knowledge. It's interesting that they always can't remember isn't it? "Remember when you tasked me with this? you said you wanted it doing this way despite my very clear advice to the contrary. Now here we are.." "I can't remember saying that. Look, there's no point in getting hung up with what might have been, we've got a problem and YOU need to fix it. How soon will it be done?" It's up there with the inept project manager's favourites: "It just needs to work" "you know it needs doing, right?" Oh really, our customers require working software? Requirements have to be fulfilled? Shit man, I never thought of that when I signed the contract.
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid.
OMG! When did you start working here? We should meet up for lunch and compare strategies.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
I don't. I used to hurt them physically. Now I work for myself, so I hurt them financially instead. The later is a load more fun :-D
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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I don't. I used to hurt them physically. Now I work for myself, so I hurt them financially instead. The later is a load more fun :-D
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
-1) When the stupid decision is made I make sure I send an e-mail outlining why I think the decision is stupid. 0) I keep the e-Mail 1) I get paid 2) They notice the balls-up 3) I show them the e-Mail. 4) They can complain all they like. 5) I get paid. I used to work in local government, the first thing you learn is to cover your back against the general levels of incompetence. They'll still try and blame you, but you'll have proof you were against the decision.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
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Don't start punching the developer...
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Don't start punching the developer...
...punch the accountant instead. ;)
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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ChrisElston wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
I don't think you can avoid it. If there was an olympic discipline of violently throwing chairs at people who don't fucking listen, I'd be a medal contender. I've been in that situation a number of times, where my professional opinion has been overruled by someone with no technical knowledge. It's interesting that they always can't remember isn't it? "Remember when you tasked me with this? you said you wanted it doing this way despite my very clear advice to the contrary. Now here we are.." "I can't remember saying that. Look, there's no point in getting hung up with what might have been, we've got a problem and YOU need to fix it. How soon will it be done?" It's up there with the inept project manager's favourites: "It just needs to work" "you know it needs doing, right?" Oh really, our customers require working software? Requirements have to be fulfilled? Shit man, I never thought of that when I signed the contract.
I had managers say to me, when a project was finished that it was not what they wanted. I brought out a signed physical copy of the requirements specs and said that it was exactly what he asked for. He then said that it was not what he wanted. I asked why did he sign it then. In the end we had to "fix" a few things to meet his original ideas.
Steve Maier
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ChrisElston wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
-1) When the stupid decision is made I make sure I send an e-mail outlining why I think the decision is stupid. 0) I keep the e-Mail 1) I get paid 2) They notice the balls-up 3) I show them the e-Mail. 4) They can complain all they like. 5) I get paid. I used to work in local government, the first thing you learn is to cover your back against the general levels of incompetence. They'll still try and blame you, but you'll have proof you were against the decision.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
:laugh: I did a 4 year stint at U.S. Customs. Yeah, saving EVERY SINGLE EMAIIL you ever send or receive is standard operating procedure. You learn to not talk to anyone about anything. You insist everything gets discussed through email. They (meaning everyone above you straight up to the President) just love to blame anyone but themselves for every stupid decision they ever made. It helps to cover your ass with a shield made out of emails! I spent more time playing CYA than I did actual work!
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Don't start punching the developer...
...punch the accountant instead. ;)
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
Me thinks you should have written The Accountant. Form an orderly queue for when he gets back from Jam'n'Cake.
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
Quote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
I never hurt anyone. I'm just a fuzzy old teddy bear. All my life I progressed up the company ladder until I reached middle management where you start interacting with the company directors and chairman of the board. I really tried to make a positive contribution to the welfare of the company, by politely pointing out the stupidity of many of their decisions. One would think they would heap gratitude on my head for being such a valuable employee, but NO! They were so utterly stupid that they actually resented my contributions! Especially the various Board Chairmen did not appreciate it, when I pointed out their stupid decisions in board meetings and that they really shouldn't be such pompous asses! At my last job, just before I retired, the company vice president told me to please stop scaring people. I told him that I am just trying to fix stupidity. Then he told me the great truth that eluded me all my life: "You just cannot fix stupid." - Gil Combs Why did it take me 40 years of being stuck in middle management positions to learn this? I wish I had met Gil many years ago! Ah well, at least I never got fired - not once. Wonder why?
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ChrisElston wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
-1) When the stupid decision is made I make sure I send an e-mail outlining why I think the decision is stupid. 0) I keep the e-Mail 1) I get paid 2) They notice the balls-up 3) I show them the e-Mail. 4) They can complain all they like. 5) I get paid. I used to work in local government, the first thing you learn is to cover your back against the general levels of incompetence. They'll still try and blame you, but you'll have proof you were against the decision.
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
Oh I have everything in emails, it is just frustrating having to do something that was entirely avoidable, and being salaried I get no more money from fixing their cock ups.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
I make sure I get that initial insistence, including an agreement to the "you must do this", in an email, which I save. Then when they come back and complain because of their own stupidity in not doing item X that I told them they must do, I send them a copy of that email and say, well, you agreed to do this and the consequences of not doing so means you have to find budget to fix this.
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
You don't. You hurt them. You hurt them very badly. They will still screw up next time, so then you get to hurt them even more. This is a philosophy I would love to live by, but regrettably, I just charge more, but because the screwer-upper usually doesn't have to pay personally, they will never learn. :sigh:
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ChrisElston wrote:
How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
You don't. You hurt them. You hurt them very badly. They will still screw up next time, so then you get to hurt them even more. This is a philosophy I would love to live by, but regrettably, I just charge more, but because the screwer-upper usually doesn't have to pay personally, they will never learn. :sigh:
On the other hand, you get paid to perpetuate the c@ck-up, then you get paid again to undo the damage. And generally, because you can predict the damage that the c@ck-up is going to cause, you can plan for the repair when you do the perpetration, and still gouge charge the customer as a punishment appropriately and get the fix done in far less time than they are expecting. And get a reputation as a Team Playing Miracle Worker into the bargain... :laugh:
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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On the other hand, you get paid to perpetuate the c@ck-up, then you get paid again to undo the damage. And generally, because you can predict the damage that the c@ck-up is going to cause, you can plan for the repair when you do the perpetration, and still gouge charge the customer as a punishment appropriately and get the fix done in far less time than they are expecting. And get a reputation as a Team Playing Miracle Worker into the bargain... :laugh:
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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You know when the business comes to you and says we want to do something and you say that is really stupid. They insist on having it done so you so OK, but you must make sure you do this otherwise you are going to get in all sorts of trouble and they say yes. So you do something stupid and try to forget your concerns then months down the line they come to you with a small problem, you have a look and notice an unholy mess and say to them remember when I told you you must do this? You didn't do it did you? And they say no. How do you avoid hurting people at that point?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
