Is 50 too old to be learning Linux
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Save it for the judge, sonny. It's been a while since I got my hands so dirty that I got involved with Linux but I've found very few problems with Ubuntu. I'm not sure what release they're up to but I have an 11.04 box that runs and runs. The flash player likes to crash a lot but then again the flash player in windows is a massive drama queen as well, so I think we can automatically blame Adobe for that one. I've heard positive things about Fedora too, but have never used it.
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Wouldn't we all? [The above post is made in humour and should Mrs Wife read the aforementioned post it was a joke]
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
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I'm 50 and have been a reluctant (for work reasons) user of Ubuntu the last 8 months or so. I have come to a greater appreciation of all things Windows as a result. Even the fonts look like crap in Ubuntu. Now, on a sort of positive note, it's an OS, and like any OS, I want it to get out of the way of doing work. I think Windows does that better as well, but I've appreciated learning more about the Linux world. People think differently using Linux. I had an ah-ha moment yesterday, when I realized that most people in the Linux world use basic text editors that don't have intellisense, code completion, etc., and as a result, their code is very, very, different -- I believe the emphasis on strings and parsing rather than well designed OO classes is a direct result of the kinds of tools that Linux devs use. Bear in mind my experiences are limited to Ruby on Rails at the moment, but from all the code I see out there, there is very little good OO architecture and lots of one-off parsing and bizarre formats. Anyways, 50 is not too late, it is an interesting experience, but at the end of the day, I'm left yearning for the pleasure of Windows, Windows applications, and doing development in C# and .NET--Ubuntu, the apps under Ubuntu, etc., are simply klunky, in my opinion. Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Bear in mind my experiences are limited to Ruby on Rails at the moment, but from all the code I see out there, there is very little good OO architecture and lots of one-off parsing and bizarre formats.
I suppose that could be because there appears to be much more open-source software available for Linux; even the kernel is open-source and I suppose with no authoritative guidance, people 'do there own thing' with regard to programming.
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I’ve seen people at 50 do more daft things than learning a new programming language or OS. When I look at doing or learning new things I never think “Am I too old?” But I do think of two things.. “Can I physically do this without injuring myself too badly?” and more importantly, “Do I want to do this?”
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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S Houghtelin wrote:
“Can I physically do this without injuring myself too badly?”
What about mentally!
I'm too old to care anymore. :D
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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Interesting.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Bear in mind my experiences are limited to Ruby on Rails at the moment, but from all the code I see out there, there is very little good OO architecture and lots of one-off parsing and bizarre formats.
I suppose that could be because there appears to be much more open-source software available for Linux; even the kernel is open-source and I suppose with no authoritative guidance, people 'do there own thing' with regard to programming.
I'm curious, what is your interest with exploring Linux distros?
Paul S Wilcox wrote:
and I suppose with no authoritative guidance,
Well, as far as I can tell, most people come from a C background, or from FP languages like Python, but the weird thing is, how software is architected is just plain different, and not to my personal tastes. Here's a great example:
f 'labor_baby_mult',
:label => 'Multiple birth',
:type => 'integer',
:followups =>
{
'Y' =>
f('labor_baby_num',
:label => 'How many babies? ',
:constraints =>
{
'range' => '2:8',
'err_range' => 'Use a number between 2 and 8'
}
)
}Now, first off, I prettied that up for you. The original is all on one line:
f 'labor_baby_mult', :type => 'string', :label => 'Multiple birth', :followups => {'Y' => f('labor_baby_num', :label => 'How many babies? ', :constraints => {'range' => '2:8', 'err_range' => 'Use a number between 2 and 8'})}
Now to pick at things: A string for type? What about an enumeration? What about a derived field (that's what "f" is, a field definition) that describes the type? Why all these hashes - why not define a class with a property "label"? A range constraint defined as a string? Seriously? Custom parsing (the "2:8") for that range? OK, maybe that's regex (I have no knowledge of regex) and I know that the range constraint can use regex, so maybe that's OK. But a string 'err_range' for what could be a property? And not to mention, the question, why are some hash keys symbols (the ":label") and some strings (the 'range' => syntax) ? The inconsistencies, overuse of hashes, lack of OO (especially where, for things like this, OO actually really is good), are all things that make it burdensome and slow to work with this particular open source component (not related to Ruby or Rails, though you can find similar reliance (but not as abusive) on hashes in Rails.) Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My Blog -
Having used all the flavours of Windows since Windows 3.1 right up to Windows 8 and having used Amiga OS 1.3 to 3.9 before then I'm wondering if it's time to try a Linux distro. What I'm wondering is, have I left it too late at the age of 50 to start to get into the intricacies of Linux and which distro would be a good one to start with? I don't mind getting my hands 'dirty' with writing scripts and using a CLI as I've done this before on the Amiga (which was Unix based) and on Wind :-O ows. Any thoughts?
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I'm curious, what is your interest with exploring Linux distros?
Paul S Wilcox wrote:
and I suppose with no authoritative guidance,
Well, as far as I can tell, most people come from a C background, or from FP languages like Python, but the weird thing is, how software is architected is just plain different, and not to my personal tastes. Here's a great example:
f 'labor_baby_mult',
:label => 'Multiple birth',
:type => 'integer',
:followups =>
{
'Y' =>
f('labor_baby_num',
:label => 'How many babies? ',
:constraints =>
{
'range' => '2:8',
'err_range' => 'Use a number between 2 and 8'
}
)
}Now, first off, I prettied that up for you. The original is all on one line:
f 'labor_baby_mult', :type => 'string', :label => 'Multiple birth', :followups => {'Y' => f('labor_baby_num', :label => 'How many babies? ', :constraints => {'range' => '2:8', 'err_range' => 'Use a number between 2 and 8'})}
Now to pick at things: A string for type? What about an enumeration? What about a derived field (that's what "f" is, a field definition) that describes the type? Why all these hashes - why not define a class with a property "label"? A range constraint defined as a string? Seriously? Custom parsing (the "2:8") for that range? OK, maybe that's regex (I have no knowledge of regex) and I know that the range constraint can use regex, so maybe that's OK. But a string 'err_range' for what could be a property? And not to mention, the question, why are some hash keys symbols (the ":label") and some strings (the 'range' => syntax) ? The inconsistencies, overuse of hashes, lack of OO (especially where, for things like this, OO actually really is good), are all things that make it burdensome and slow to work with this particular open source component (not related to Ruby or Rails, though you can find similar reliance (but not as abusive) on hashes in Rails.) Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My BlogMarc Clifton wrote:
I'm curious, what is your interest with exploring Linux distros?
That is a very good question and I'm struggling to come up with a cohesive answer. I think it's because I'm getting to the stage in life where I don't want to 'go with the flow', I want to be different. For example, and this might help to explain things: when I got a smart phone I opted for an Android based phone rather that an iPhone for the simple reason that I like to 'mess' with it and try different ROMs; the one thing that you can't do with the iPhone. The first thing I did with the phone was to delete the Carriers version of Android and load a different one. I currently use CyanogenMod [^] but have also tried others. The idea of having much more control over the OS, its footprint on disk and its resource usage really appeals to me and from what I've read and seen, this is much more achievable in Linux than the latest flavours of Windows which just seem to get bigger and more bloated. If I could, I'd still be using Windows NT 4 if it supported USB. I like the idea of having an unbloated OS and Windows NT was certainly that. I have Win NT 4 running in a Virtual Box and it is blindingly fast; and when you compare its disk footprint and the resource requirements to say WindowsXP, there's no contest. I suppose the other reason is, I just like to tinker with different things! As to your programming example, my level of expertise in programming doesn't really give me enough authority to realisticly comment. I'm a hobbyist programmer (in VB.Net; currently teaching myself C#. Although I do have a good grasp of OOP having studied it at college) and mechanical engineer by trade.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
I'm curious, what is your interest with exploring Linux distros?
That is a very good question and I'm struggling to come up with a cohesive answer. I think it's because I'm getting to the stage in life where I don't want to 'go with the flow', I want to be different. For example, and this might help to explain things: when I got a smart phone I opted for an Android based phone rather that an iPhone for the simple reason that I like to 'mess' with it and try different ROMs; the one thing that you can't do with the iPhone. The first thing I did with the phone was to delete the Carriers version of Android and load a different one. I currently use CyanogenMod [^] but have also tried others. The idea of having much more control over the OS, its footprint on disk and its resource usage really appeals to me and from what I've read and seen, this is much more achievable in Linux than the latest flavours of Windows which just seem to get bigger and more bloated. If I could, I'd still be using Windows NT 4 if it supported USB. I like the idea of having an unbloated OS and Windows NT was certainly that. I have Win NT 4 running in a Virtual Box and it is blindingly fast; and when you compare its disk footprint and the resource requirements to say WindowsXP, there's no contest. I suppose the other reason is, I just like to tinker with different things! As to your programming example, my level of expertise in programming doesn't really give me enough authority to realisticly comment. I'm a hobbyist programmer (in VB.Net; currently teaching myself C#. Although I do have a good grasp of OOP having studied it at college) and mechanical engineer by trade.
Paul S Wilcox wrote:
he idea of having much more control over the OS, its footprint on disk and its resource usage really appeals to me and from what I've read and seen, this is much more achievable in Linux than the latest flavours of Windows which just seem to get bigger and more bloated.
I've always felt that the Windows kernel and the GUI layer were too entangled - one thing I do appreciate about Linux is that the kernel is truly separate from the GUI layer - you can choose what GUI you want. Now, internally, Windows may have that differentiation, but it certainly isn't exposed to the developer or the end-user.
Paul S Wilcox wrote:
I suppose the other reason is, I just like to tinker with different things!
I can totally understand that! I've written lots of articles just on my interest to tinker with different ideas and approaches to problems we always seem to have to deal with in programming. Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My Blog -
Having used all the flavours of Windows since Windows 3.1 right up to Windows 8 and having used Amiga OS 1.3 to 3.9 before then I'm wondering if it's time to try a Linux distro. What I'm wondering is, have I left it too late at the age of 50 to start to get into the intricacies of Linux and which distro would be a good one to start with? I don't mind getting my hands 'dirty' with writing scripts and using a CLI as I've done this before on the Amiga (which was Unix based) and on Wind :-O ows. Any thoughts?
I plan on learning by installing Ubuntu as my internet gateway (dhcp) server. Then I plan on blocking certain things based on MAC Address so my kids stay off of certain things on the internet. (Or at least make them work for it.) Never done any of it, so it should be a fun experiment.
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Having used all the flavours of Windows since Windows 3.1 right up to Windows 8 and having used Amiga OS 1.3 to 3.9 before then I'm wondering if it's time to try a Linux distro. What I'm wondering is, have I left it too late at the age of 50 to start to get into the intricacies of Linux and which distro would be a good one to start with? I don't mind getting my hands 'dirty' with writing scripts and using a CLI as I've done this before on the Amiga (which was Unix based) and on Wind :-O ows. Any thoughts?
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I'm 50 and have been a reluctant (for work reasons) user of Ubuntu the last 8 months or so. I have come to a greater appreciation of all things Windows as a result. Even the fonts look like crap in Ubuntu. Now, on a sort of positive note, it's an OS, and like any OS, I want it to get out of the way of doing work. I think Windows does that better as well, but I've appreciated learning more about the Linux world. People think differently using Linux. I had an ah-ha moment yesterday, when I realized that most people in the Linux world use basic text editors that don't have intellisense, code completion, etc., and as a result, their code is very, very, different -- I believe the emphasis on strings and parsing rather than well designed OO classes is a direct result of the kinds of tools that Linux devs use. Bear in mind my experiences are limited to Ruby on Rails at the moment, but from all the code I see out there, there is very little good OO architecture and lots of one-off parsing and bizarre formats. Anyways, 50 is not too late, it is an interesting experience, but at the end of the day, I'm left yearning for the pleasure of Windows, Windows applications, and doing development in C# and .NET--Ubuntu, the apps under Ubuntu, etc., are simply klunky, in my opinion. Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My BlogMarc Clifton wrote:
...People think differently using Linux...
What a great answer. I like your analysis. I've used Ubuntu since 8.04 and initially liked it. They jumped the shark with the Unity interface though. I suspect that is what you are using now. Oh yeah I'm over 50 now too.
-- Harvey
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Having used all the flavours of Windows since Windows 3.1 right up to Windows 8 and having used Amiga OS 1.3 to 3.9 before then I'm wondering if it's time to try a Linux distro. What I'm wondering is, have I left it too late at the age of 50 to start to get into the intricacies of Linux and which distro would be a good one to start with? I don't mind getting my hands 'dirty' with writing scripts and using a CLI as I've done this before on the Amiga (which was Unix based) and on Wind :-O ows. Any thoughts?
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Wouldn't he better served finding a young mistress?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
Why are they exclusive? I am 51, my wife is 26, my home OS is Trisquel 6.0. {Clone of Ubuntu 12.04) And that is a lovely OS to use, by the way... :cool:
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Having used all the flavours of Windows since Windows 3.1 right up to Windows 8 and having used Amiga OS 1.3 to 3.9 before then I'm wondering if it's time to try a Linux distro. What I'm wondering is, have I left it too late at the age of 50 to start to get into the intricacies of Linux and which distro would be a good one to start with? I don't mind getting my hands 'dirty' with writing scripts and using a CLI as I've done this before on the Amiga (which was Unix based) and on Wind :-O ows. Any thoughts?
I do not see how learning Linux is harder when you are 50 than when you are 30 or 70. Unfortunately, the Linux desktop is dead (almost) and does not show (currently) any signs of revival. So, if you want something different and still (for how long, is another question) better than Window for personal use, I recommend a Mac, especially MacMini (just do not forget to buy their Magic Trackpad, it is absolutely necessary to get fun). If you want some practical Linux, I would recommend Arch or Slackware for a server and some USB distro like Slax for a Windows rescue kit, just verify that it does not insist on taking all of the USB for itself. If you want to see what was offered to the World and rejected, go Ubuntu. If you want to know what problems contributed to the rejection, go Gentoo.
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Having used all the flavours of Windows since Windows 3.1 right up to Windows 8 and having used Amiga OS 1.3 to 3.9 before then I'm wondering if it's time to try a Linux distro. What I'm wondering is, have I left it too late at the age of 50 to start to get into the intricacies of Linux and which distro would be a good one to start with? I don't mind getting my hands 'dirty' with writing scripts and using a CLI as I've done this before on the Amiga (which was Unix based) and on Wind :-O ows. Any thoughts?
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The fact that the AmigaDOS was based on Unix will not help you a single bit under Linux.
Except for knowing what cd and rm stands for. As in don't try this at home:
alias rm=rm
cd /
rm *First *nix machine I did that on was some SCO installation I tried out and was tired of. :^)
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That's because AmigaDOS wasn't based on Unix. Influenced by, maybe, but definitely a distinct beast.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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I'm curious, what is your interest with exploring Linux distros?
Paul S Wilcox wrote:
and I suppose with no authoritative guidance,
Well, as far as I can tell, most people come from a C background, or from FP languages like Python, but the weird thing is, how software is architected is just plain different, and not to my personal tastes. Here's a great example:
f 'labor_baby_mult',
:label => 'Multiple birth',
:type => 'integer',
:followups =>
{
'Y' =>
f('labor_baby_num',
:label => 'How many babies? ',
:constraints =>
{
'range' => '2:8',
'err_range' => 'Use a number between 2 and 8'
}
)
}Now, first off, I prettied that up for you. The original is all on one line:
f 'labor_baby_mult', :type => 'string', :label => 'Multiple birth', :followups => {'Y' => f('labor_baby_num', :label => 'How many babies? ', :constraints => {'range' => '2:8', 'err_range' => 'Use a number between 2 and 8'})}
Now to pick at things: A string for type? What about an enumeration? What about a derived field (that's what "f" is, a field definition) that describes the type? Why all these hashes - why not define a class with a property "label"? A range constraint defined as a string? Seriously? Custom parsing (the "2:8") for that range? OK, maybe that's regex (I have no knowledge of regex) and I know that the range constraint can use regex, so maybe that's OK. But a string 'err_range' for what could be a property? And not to mention, the question, why are some hash keys symbols (the ":label") and some strings (the 'range' => syntax) ? The inconsistencies, overuse of hashes, lack of OO (especially where, for things like this, OO actually really is good), are all things that make it burdensome and slow to work with this particular open source component (not related to Ruby or Rails, though you can find similar reliance (but not as abusive) on hashes in Rails.) Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My BlogMarc Clifton wrote:
FP languages like Python
Python is not an FP language (assumming you mean Functional Programming) - it is a dynamic, mixed-paradigm language with some functional features, but really is more of a classic procedural object-oriented language for the most part.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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Having used all the flavours of Windows since Windows 3.1 right up to Windows 8 and having used Amiga OS 1.3 to 3.9 before then I'm wondering if it's time to try a Linux distro. What I'm wondering is, have I left it too late at the age of 50 to start to get into the intricacies of Linux and which distro would be a good one to start with? I don't mind getting my hands 'dirty' with writing scripts and using a CLI as I've done this before on the Amiga (which was Unix based) and on Wind :-O ows. Any thoughts?
Many of the older generation of CPers started with proprietary OSs or machines with no OSs at all. As such, we are more used to switching thinking between environments than the youngsters who grew up with new OSs like Windows 3 or Windows 95/98 will be used to. Those who started with Windows XP will find Linux strange but only because it is different. If your history includes RSX, RSTS, or CP/M then Linux without a GUI will seem familiar; with a GUI, it becomes trivial. I learnt Unix in 1990 (after 18 years of programming) and then went back to real OSs (ICL G3, MVS/XA, VAX/VMS etc) but am just picking up Linux (Raspian) again and am finding that my 'history' plus Google [actually DuckDuckGo] plus the man pages means that it is not a steep learning curve; in fact, it is like rediscovering an old friend. The modern distros do so much of the hard work for you (thus far, I've only had to unpack one
tarball, everything else has beenapt-gets) that it is actually easier (and cheaper) to do interesting things in Linux than it is in Windows.