The Tech Interview is Dead.
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Hear Hear! (or is that "Here Here"?? :confused:) http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/22/the-technical-interview-is-dead/[^] I think his breakdown of the interview process is pretty spot on. -EM
Years ago, we did a study to determine whether anyone at Google is particularly good at hiring. We looked at tens of thousands of interviews, and everyone who had done the interviews and what they scored the candidate, and how that person ultimately performed in their job. We found zero relationship. It’s a complete random mess, except for one guy who was highly predictive because he only interviewed people for a very specialized area, where he happened to be the world’s leading expert. (here[^]) Which - to quote a a Scott Adams corollary - suggests it's virtually impossible to hire someone smarter than you, except by accident.
His list of "Interview steps" can be somewhat bend to fit my experiences: - request simple "live coding" to weed out the inept - get them to discuss technology with you - discuss what they did before - do they fit the club? - You really can tell only after a "real" project However, there are some obvious problems with that. "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you" candidates might not be able to discuss their previous work (might actually be common in certain industries). Cultural fit is tricky, it requires great social skills and tolerance from the inverviewer. A company like google might get away with expecting an "audit" project, most smaller companies will lose good candidates that way. But hey, noone said interviewing would be any easy from the other side!
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Hear Hear! (or is that "Here Here"?? :confused:) http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/22/the-technical-interview-is-dead/[^] I think his breakdown of the interview process is pretty spot on. -EM
I have always interviewed based on character. That is the most important factor that I look for. And then, my approach has always been "tell me what you can do." It has always worked for me. You can tell when someone knows what they are talking about or not.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Hear Hear! (or is that "Here Here"?? :confused:) http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/22/the-technical-interview-is-dead/[^] I think his breakdown of the interview process is pretty spot on. -EM
By now I am pretty sure that the only reliable way to hire a good person is to find someone you already worked with.
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Hear Hear! (or is that "Here Here"?? :confused:) http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/22/the-technical-interview-is-dead/[^] I think his breakdown of the interview process is pretty spot on. -EM
I have never had a "proper" interview. No tests, no whiteboard code, no brain teasers. Well, I'm lying, there was this one place but I ended up refusing them. I didn't do that well with the code I had to write on paper. And I could see they weren't happy with my weird answers, or my 0 knowledge in a field I'd been working for 3 years at that point. When asked what does function "x" do, I said I don't know, I never bother remembering, I just check the API when I need to use it. When asked what API function I'd use for something I said "I don't know, I search API, I google and I select the best option in my opinion". They really weren't happy. They did offer me a job, not that well paid. I called them on the signing day and told them I don't want the job. Real reason was I'd found another job where I went in with 0 experience (web dev previously to mfc c++). That other job the interviewer (my future boss) asked me a couple of tech questions which I barely answered (what is malloc, new etc), I mostly guessed what they should do. I never saw that condescending look on his face. Then it was "What do you want in this job?". And I answered "To learn as much as I can". Hired. 2 weeks later I was working on real projects. First job was on a file sharing site and the interview scheduling happened at 3 AM. The boss saw some of my PHP learning code and told me he was impressed that I was actually organized in a learning project (separate files by functionality, display functions separate from logic - I still have no idea what MVC MVVC and that other crap means). That learning project was a discussion forum written from scratch. Current job I was recommended and the interview was a discussion on what I like and how I'd do certain things and arguments in why one way may be better than another for a certain given design and requirements. For some reason I was hired as a senior, with close to 0 C experience even though all I do is C and various flavours of ASM. I also pretty much never had issues with people in the teams I worked in. There's just nobody I actually dislike. As for the ones that are slightly slower, or know less, you help them even if that means a couple hours unpaid overtime to finish your work. In the end the team benefits, the project(s) benefits. As for when I'm slow or know less, I ask my team and if they can they help. In the end I'm pretty sure I would fail most "proper" interviews. I just can't get myself to care about preparing for an interview, it's such a complete waste of time to le
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Hear Hear! (or is that "Here Here"?? :confused:) http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/22/the-technical-interview-is-dead/[^] I think his breakdown of the interview process is pretty spot on. -EM
Since leaving college almost 30 years ago, I have essentially had 3 jobs: the first job I got was because I was familiar with the hardware environment (VAX/VMS), the second was because I knew the software toosl and didn't need manuals (VAX/VMS Fortran and FMS forms; learned these tools at the first job), the current job was landed because I had used the software suite for the last 20 years and its a niche market. The last two jobs were phone interview only; I was able to describe in technical terms the tools I had used and how I had used them to solve issues. As the arcticle said, brain teasers are not a valid method of determining potential. Tim
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Hear Hear! (or is that "Here Here"?? :confused:) http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/22/the-technical-interview-is-dead/[^] I think his breakdown of the interview process is pretty spot on. -EM
I had one interview in London for a job back in Joburg. It lasted no more than ten minutes. The bloke who interviewed me was one of Anglo American's ex Zambian Mafia contingent as they were known. He came to London to "interview" but it was a "jolly" as he used the business travel/hotel in order to watch a test match at Lords. He shook hands, we talked about rugby. I told him I'd worked for a couple of years on Prime Computer machines (anyone else remember those?)and I was familiar with Fortran. That's good enough he said, he shook hands, told me to start in six weeks, mentioned the salary and said he'd arrange flights for me and Mrs. Wife. Not all interviews need to be technical.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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I had one interview in London for a job back in Joburg. It lasted no more than ten minutes. The bloke who interviewed me was one of Anglo American's ex Zambian Mafia contingent as they were known. He came to London to "interview" but it was a "jolly" as he used the business travel/hotel in order to watch a test match at Lords. He shook hands, we talked about rugby. I told him I'd worked for a couple of years on Prime Computer machines (anyone else remember those?)and I was familiar with Fortran. That's good enough he said, he shook hands, told me to start in six weeks, mentioned the salary and said he'd arrange flights for me and Mrs. Wife. Not all interviews need to be technical.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
I had a similar one in a pub in London - we sat drinking and talking pretty basic IT stuff - after a few pints I asked when and where the interview was, he replied "this is it" can you start on Monday ? I did, on a three month contract which ran for 21 years.
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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I had a similar one in a pub in London - we sat drinking and talking pretty basic IT stuff - after a few pints I asked when and where the interview was, he replied "this is it" can you start on Monday ? I did, on a three month contract which ran for 21 years.
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro - Hunter S Thompson RIP
pkfox wrote:
a three month contract which ran for 21 years.
It took you 21 years to do a 3 month job? :omg:
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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I have never had a "proper" interview. No tests, no whiteboard code, no brain teasers. Well, I'm lying, there was this one place but I ended up refusing them. I didn't do that well with the code I had to write on paper. And I could see they weren't happy with my weird answers, or my 0 knowledge in a field I'd been working for 3 years at that point. When asked what does function "x" do, I said I don't know, I never bother remembering, I just check the API when I need to use it. When asked what API function I'd use for something I said "I don't know, I search API, I google and I select the best option in my opinion". They really weren't happy. They did offer me a job, not that well paid. I called them on the signing day and told them I don't want the job. Real reason was I'd found another job where I went in with 0 experience (web dev previously to mfc c++). That other job the interviewer (my future boss) asked me a couple of tech questions which I barely answered (what is malloc, new etc), I mostly guessed what they should do. I never saw that condescending look on his face. Then it was "What do you want in this job?". And I answered "To learn as much as I can". Hired. 2 weeks later I was working on real projects. First job was on a file sharing site and the interview scheduling happened at 3 AM. The boss saw some of my PHP learning code and told me he was impressed that I was actually organized in a learning project (separate files by functionality, display functions separate from logic - I still have no idea what MVC MVVC and that other crap means). That learning project was a discussion forum written from scratch. Current job I was recommended and the interview was a discussion on what I like and how I'd do certain things and arguments in why one way may be better than another for a certain given design and requirements. For some reason I was hired as a senior, with close to 0 C experience even though all I do is C and various flavours of ASM. I also pretty much never had issues with people in the teams I worked in. There's just nobody I actually dislike. As for the ones that are slightly slower, or know less, you help them even if that means a couple hours unpaid overtime to finish your work. In the end the team benefits, the project(s) benefits. As for when I'm slow or know less, I ask my team and if they can they help. In the end I'm pretty sure I would fail most "proper" interviews. I just can't get myself to care about preparing for an interview, it's such a complete waste of time to le
I've got years of real experience and in the last year I decided to look around for a new position. I've been at my current position for over 12 years. I ended up having some technical interviews and I have discerned a pattern of them. When you interview for a C++ position you will always get judged on how you understand elements of the language you will never use in real work. I have a special sarcastic fondness for the questions regarding dynamic casting of polymorphic nested classes with a common function. Second comes the sarcastic fondness for the design pattern questions. I've decided that in the future I will just cut to the finish line and tell them "Listen, I've got the experience to research my work and do it the best way possible. I haven't memorized the API of the STL and I suck at templates. If you have me write live code I will probably make a mistake and anyway no one works that way on the job so why do you wish it?" Having said all that I will show them my online catalog of open source work on fairly large projects and tell them they need to gauge me based on my portfolio.
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I had a similar one in a pub in London - we sat drinking and talking pretty basic IT stuff - after a few pints I asked when and where the interview was, he replied "this is it" can you start on Monday ? I did, on a three month contract which ran for 21 years.
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro - Hunter S Thompson RIP
Fuck my old boots. What an amazing result that was.:thumbsup:
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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Hear Hear! (or is that "Here Here"?? :confused:) http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/22/the-technical-interview-is-dead/[^] I think his breakdown of the interview process is pretty spot on. -EM
I look for enthusiasm and motivation. If you're not loving what you're doing... Being asked stoopid technical questions only proves that you know the same technical crap that the interviewer does; it doesn't prove that you can do the job. The documentation is there for when you don't know or can't remember something and the second I hear that someone knows the technology inside out I know they are lying - no one knows everything and nor should they.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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Hear Hear! (or is that "Here Here"?? :confused:) http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/22/the-technical-interview-is-dead/[^] I think his breakdown of the interview process is pretty spot on. -EM
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I've got years of real experience and in the last year I decided to look around for a new position. I've been at my current position for over 12 years. I ended up having some technical interviews and I have discerned a pattern of them. When you interview for a C++ position you will always get judged on how you understand elements of the language you will never use in real work. I have a special sarcastic fondness for the questions regarding dynamic casting of polymorphic nested classes with a common function. Second comes the sarcastic fondness for the design pattern questions. I've decided that in the future I will just cut to the finish line and tell them "Listen, I've got the experience to research my work and do it the best way possible. I haven't memorized the API of the STL and I suck at templates. If you have me write live code I will probably make a mistake and anyway no one works that way on the job so why do you wish it?" Having said all that I will show them my online catalog of open source work on fairly large projects and tell them they need to gauge me based on my portfolio.
Maybe once I'm a grumpy old man with no desire to learn anything new I will let them quiz me but until then my memory is no measure of what I can do. But I guess at that point I will have given in and accepted a managerial position. Right now I am happy I have a manager that takes all the crap for us.
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I had one interview in London for a job back in Joburg. It lasted no more than ten minutes. The bloke who interviewed me was one of Anglo American's ex Zambian Mafia contingent as they were known. He came to London to "interview" but it was a "jolly" as he used the business travel/hotel in order to watch a test match at Lords. He shook hands, we talked about rugby. I told him I'd worked for a couple of years on Prime Computer machines (anyone else remember those?)and I was familiar with Fortran. That's good enough he said, he shook hands, told me to start in six weeks, mentioned the salary and said he'd arrange flights for me and Mrs. Wife. Not all interviews need to be technical.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
First computer I ever got to "type into" as opposed to punch cards for was a Prime 400. Then a GEC4070 a week or so later, and IBM 360/195 the week after that and a FR80 graphics processor just after that. They wouldn't let me near the Cray II. :sigh: Industrial training on Uni courses was fun in those days!
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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First computer I ever got to "type into" as opposed to punch cards for was a Prime 400. Then a GEC4070 a week or so later, and IBM 360/195 the week after that and a FR80 graphics processor just after that. They wouldn't let me near the Cray II. :sigh: Industrial training on Uni courses was fun in those days!
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
OriginalGriff wrote:
was a Prime 400
We had Prime 750s at Anglo-Am. That was followed by some sweet little 2250s running Primos 21.0. I can still remember some of the subroutine names: PRWF$$, ATCH$$, SGDR$$ and the token-ring network where only one packet at a time could flow around the cable. The highlight game we played was Yahtzee.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
was a Prime 400
We had Prime 750s at Anglo-Am. That was followed by some sweet little 2250s running Primos 21.0. I can still remember some of the subroutine names: PRWF$$, ATCH$$, SGDR$$ and the token-ring network where only one packet at a time could flow around the cable. The highlight game we played was Yahtzee.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
It was Colossal Cavern for us!
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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pkfox wrote:
a three month contract which ran for 21 years.
It took you 21 years to do a 3 month job? :omg:
It was broke, so I fixed it.
If they are willing to keep paying you at contract rates, you stretch the work out as long as you can... :laugh:
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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If they are willing to keep paying you at contract rates, you stretch the work out as long as you can... :laugh:
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
I was kind of thinking what a sweet gig that would be. Just keep blaming Microsoft, oops another MS update I need to work around. :)
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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Years ago, we did a study to determine whether anyone at Google is particularly good at hiring. We looked at tens of thousands of interviews, and everyone who had done the interviews and what they scored the candidate, and how that person ultimately performed in their job. We found zero relationship. It’s a complete random mess, except for one guy who was highly predictive because he only interviewed people for a very specialized area, where he happened to be the world’s leading expert. (here[^]) Which - to quote a a Scott Adams corollary - suggests it's virtually impossible to hire someone smarter than you, except by accident.
His list of "Interview steps" can be somewhat bend to fit my experiences: - request simple "live coding" to weed out the inept - get them to discuss technology with you - discuss what they did before - do they fit the club? - You really can tell only after a "real" project However, there are some obvious problems with that. "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you" candidates might not be able to discuss their previous work (might actually be common in certain industries). Cultural fit is tricky, it requires great social skills and tolerance from the inverviewer. A company like google might get away with expecting an "audit" project, most smaller companies will lose good candidates that way. But hey, noone said interviewing would be any easy from the other side!
