First language
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Thanks, I didn't try voting on it myself, I wouldn't want to risk the wrath of Bob. :)
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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Without starting a flame war or bashing session... What is the first language you learned: verbal and coding Do you still use either on a regular basis? Why or why not? Canadian English and Commodore BASIC Living in the Southern U.S., I still speak English, but, admittedly, it has been... adjusted to use local terms (Y'all, All y'all, you'n's). I still use BASIC variants (VBA mostly in Excel or third party applications), but haven't used any Commodore products since about the late '90s.
English English, mathematics (a language surely?) and Commodore BASIC. Closely followed by Latin (OK, I'm not very fluent!), assembly / machine code, BBC BASIC and C. Then I switched to the C-family and Java. I recently began programming BASIC and machine code on a C64 emulator again and I found it most illuminating - it put many concepts into an historical perspective and also brushed up my binary and taught me more about how computers work on a fundamental level.
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By the way, where can I find the code that deals with the "jump target out of range" issue?
If you mean when short jumps become long jumps that's handled in
CEJmp::emit"ArchQOR/x86/HLAssembler/EJmp.cpp:154" in the HLA and you'd have to look after that yourself if you use the low level assembler. If we're talking jumps larger than 32bits of address space I don't know of any code dealing with that. Petr might be able to enlighten you or it may simply be missing. I have a couple of 64bit machines and 64bit OSs but I haven't as yet cooked a 64bit build with VS2012 to try out the x64 support. Given that there will be, as noted in the article, serious issues with it. It's on the TODO list but to be honest I've had my fill of assembly language for the moment and am rampaging through the AOP features for the next article. Much more my sort of thing. :)"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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If you mean when short jumps become long jumps that's handled in
CEJmp::emit"ArchQOR/x86/HLAssembler/EJmp.cpp:154" in the HLA and you'd have to look after that yourself if you use the low level assembler. If we're talking jumps larger than 32bits of address space I don't know of any code dealing with that. Petr might be able to enlighten you or it may simply be missing. I have a couple of 64bit machines and 64bit OSs but I haven't as yet cooked a 64bit build with VS2012 to try out the x64 support. Given that there will be, as noted in the article, serious issues with it. It's on the TODO list but to be honest I've had my fill of assembly language for the moment and am rampaging through the AOP features for the next article. Much more my sort of thing. :)"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
Yes that's what I meant. Was just curious how you did it. The simple way apparently, no offense :) It's not a very critical thing to get guaranteed minimum branch size, but it's an interesting problem IMO, easy to solve without code alignments (you can assume all branches are short, then make out-of-range ones large until they're all in range), I don't know yet how to do it when alignments get in the way.
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Yes that's what I meant. Was just curious how you did it. The simple way apparently, no offense :) It's not a very critical thing to get guaranteed minimum branch size, but it's an interesting problem IMO, easy to solve without code alignments (you can assume all branches are short, then make out-of-range ones large until they're all in range), I don't know yet how to do it when alignments get in the way.
That's exactly the kind of reason I didn't write this thing from scratch. It not nearly as simple an idea as it seems and the scale at which these problems occur is always somewhere between what is 'correct' assembler, i.e. will parse and run, and what is a working program. The size of that gap seems to be bigger in assembly than any other language I've used.
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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Without starting a flame war or bashing session... What is the first language you learned: verbal and coding Do you still use either on a regular basis? Why or why not? Canadian English and Commodore BASIC Living in the Southern U.S., I still speak English, but, admittedly, it has been... adjusted to use local terms (Y'all, All y'all, you'n's). I still use BASIC variants (VBA mostly in Excel or third party applications), but haven't used any Commodore products since about the late '90s.
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English and to show how old I am System 360 Assembler Language. I now code in C# and a little VBA when I am in Excel.
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English and no language in coding(move around wires to change the voltage transfer across capacitors and other electrical equipment and I have no memory of how it all worked. Since floating point operations wasn't a concept then, have no idea of it's speed. Since you could tell it was working by watching the voltage changes I doubt it was faster than 1 flops) yes, I still use English. First coding language COBOL, which I remember slightly better than those wires.
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Without starting a flame war or bashing session... What is the first language you learned: verbal and coding Do you still use either on a regular basis? Why or why not? Canadian English and Commodore BASIC Living in the Southern U.S., I still speak English, but, admittedly, it has been... adjusted to use local terms (Y'all, All y'all, you'n's). I still use BASIC variants (VBA mostly in Excel or third party applications), but haven't used any Commodore products since about the late '90s.
German and Commodore Basic. German is still my mainly used spoken language. I haven't used any Basic (except for a macro now and then) since I gave my C64 away.
The good thing about pessimism is, that you are always either right or pleasently surprised.
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English- With a Western Pennsylvania twist (creek=crick, roof=ruff, and words like costume sound like coshtume.. you all= yinz on occasion too. Lancaster= Lan-caster, not lankister) First language I was exposed to was TRS-80 Model 1 BASIC. I was very young so it's hard to say I ever used it with any regularity. But I have a couple elementary programs on a cassette tape. DOS Batch scripts and DBASE would probably count more as a regular use "language". GW/QBasic took me thru puberty. Then I decided I liked hardware more than software.. Went down the systems/networking path thru college so only dealt with vbs and Batch. I only turned back to software as a career in the last 8 or 9 years. I haven't touched a DBASE/Clipper application in maybe 5 years. I haven't written a meaningful Batch script also in about 5 years.. Last batch file of significance I believe was a result of some crap the DBASE/Clipper app needed :-D My career has put me in majority of Winforms VB.NET, more T-SQL scripting lately, C# only as required, occasional VBA and JavaScript, and the rare PowerShell script here and there. I know that kinda blurs lines for some people when defining "language".
Now yuinz sound like yuinz from "southwestern PA", around (or in) Pittsburgh. Now where I grew up, we used to jump into those cricks "yuze guise" thought were too cold. And first day of deer season was a "religious holiday"! Back when the lake froze over, they used to drive model As and Ts to Canada. If they weren't so pathetic now-a-daysl, I'd say "Go Browns"! :laugh:
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Now yuinz sound like yuinz from "southwestern PA", around (or in) Pittsburgh. Now where I grew up, we used to jump into those cricks "yuze guise" thought were too cold. And first day of deer season was a "religious holiday"! Back when the lake froze over, they used to drive model As and Ts to Canada. If they weren't so pathetic now-a-daysl, I'd say "Go Browns"! :laugh:
I believe I read somewhere that western PA is generalized as "Appalachian speaking dialect" In Erie, it's mostly yuze guys, but I have family that lived south and I lived in Pittsburgh myself a few years.. Only an hour from there now. "First Day of Buck" STILL is a holiday and is marked on most school calendars, no school, some small businesses even close. And Erie is the ultimate bandwagon town for sports due to it's geography.. As a small child it was Steelers everything, by the 90s it was Bills everything, when Bills stood for "Boy I Love Losing Superbowls".. Then mid 90s the Browns/Steelers rivalry became neighborhood gang wars.. Some neighborhoods nearly burned when Cleveland went to Baltimore.. Now a days people are like "Cleveland has a professional sports team??" lol. Well enough getting of being 'nebby', I got some clothes in the 'worsh'.. Have to stop by 'Wolmart' to pick up some 'gum bands'. Then maybe head 'dahntahn' to the 'Dinor' for some 'pepperoni balls' and a 'hoagie'. If I can 'rahmemmer' how to get there.
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Without starting a flame war or bashing session... What is the first language you learned: verbal and coding Do you still use either on a regular basis? Why or why not? Canadian English and Commodore BASIC Living in the Southern U.S., I still speak English, but, admittedly, it has been... adjusted to use local terms (Y'all, All y'all, you'n's). I still use BASIC variants (VBA mostly in Excel or third party applications), but haven't used any Commodore products since about the late '90s.
Ok I'm really late in answering this, but I think I can provide a slightly different story than most. ;P Italian as a verbal language, but my first programming language came around when I was 10, in 1980. I owned a Philips Videopac G7000 game console[^] (that's Magnavox Odyssey2 in most non-European countries I believe) back then, and I had my mom drive me to the big city (and pull out a fair amount of money) to buy me the "Computer Intro!" cartridge out of a geeky older guy who wasn't using it any more. It allowed you to program the console in a very limited pseudo-assembly language and... well... "learn to program"! While my intial goal was of course to "write my own games", and I soon realized the limited programming language was by no means up to the task, it definitely blew my mind with all the possibilities opening up before me. I wrote quite a few programs, all neatly written on paper for design first and backup later, and had tons of fun. :) You can have a look at its manual here[^] - it was quite good considering the time and intended audience! A couple of years later I passed on to Commodore Basic on my shiny and new C64, and later still, to my delight, went back to assembler for the 6502 CPU on the same machine. The rest is history! :-D
I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code! -- Unknown PROGRAM - n. A magic spell cast over a computer allowing it to turn one's input into error messages. v. tr.- To engage in a pastime similar to banging one's head against a wall, but with fewer opportunities for reward. -- Uknown