Why I support bringing back the death penalty...
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Richard Deeming wrote:
And you don't see any contradiction in that statement?
And so it should be perfectly ok for me to imprison people in my house because the government gets to do it? I should also be able to impose an income tax on my neighbors since the government does it also.
jschell wrote:
And so it should be perfectly ok for me to imprison people in my house because the government gets to do it?
The government doesn't imprison people in your house. (At least, I hope they don't!) But if you wanted to try it, you would first need to convict them of a crime in a court of law. Locking someone up without trial[^] is one of the things which most civilised societies agree is very wrong.
jschell wrote:
I should also be able to impose an income tax on my neighbors since the government does it also.
Is your tax going to finance protection from foreign military threats, pay for maintenance of public infrastructure, or pay for social benefits?
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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ryanb31 wrote:
They are around people all day, even if it is in jail.
And the people they're around are either hardened criminals, who are unlikely to be easy prey, or prison guards, who are even less likely to be easy prey. If the prisoner is that dangerous, they can be kept in solitary confinement with no chance to kill anyone.
ryanb31 wrote:
I must have missed it.
Well, we kind of got side-tracked, but what about the list in this post[^]?
- Absolute certainty of guilt. It's easier to release an innocent man that it is to raise him from the dead.
- For people who believe in an afterlife, the chance to repent and possibly avoid additional punishment after death.
- For people who don't believe in an afterlife, the chance to experience the entirety of the punishment before being snuffed out.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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And the people they're around are either hardened criminals, who are unlikely to be easy prey, or prison guards, who are even less likely to be easy prey.
True. But the point is they can still kill.
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they can be kept in solitary confinement with no chance to kill anyone.
In that case, that would be more expensive than killing them, ruling out that argument.
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but what about the list
You're right. I guess I did not see those as reasons to not kill mostly because I addressed each one. I still say let the people vote on a law. Either way, restitution can't be made so who cares, kill them, keep them alive, I can see both ways, although I do strongly support death penalty.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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No, it's not revenge because it is not revenge. That's why. Disagree, I don't care, but revenge is motive based and you are not qualified to determine the motives of people other than yourself.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Justice. I support a society that votes on whether or not to use the death penalty. I support both sides. Since no restitution can be made by the offender both sides are valid. I do support the death penalty when there is no doubt of guilt. There's no reason to keep them alive.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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_Josh_ wrote:
But for what purpose? Do you think having the death penalty would have been deterrent enough to have stopped this from happening? Personally, I doubt it would have made a lick of difference.
And so even though people are put in prison other people continue to steal. So it follows that no one should go to prison for stealing?
jschell wrote:
So it follows that no one should go to prison for stealing?
So if I'm not in favor of the most extreme punishment then I must be in favor of no punishment? Custodial sentences serve two purposes - as a deterrent to others and the removal from society of the offender. Execution also provides both but I argue that the deterrent is no greater and as execution has several other negative aspects custodial sentences are preferable.
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Because members of a civilized society don't kill each other.
Exactly. So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be kicked out of society (killed.)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Exactly. So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be kicked out of society (killed.)
Is hell a society?
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Is hell a society?
:) It must be. I know some people that will be there so perhaps we can ask later. :laugh: But I can't assume you are serious about comparing the death penalty to living in hell?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Is hell a society?
:) It must be. I know some people that will be there so perhaps we can ask later. :laugh: But I can't assume you are serious about comparing the death penalty to living in hell?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I'm with Josh and, surprisingly, MM. Let the mofu rot in jail, but no matter how heinous the crime I cannot condone the taking of a life. The death penalty is pure revenge, it doesn't solve anything, it doesn't deter other chrimes, it doesn't bring back the victims. Send the perpetrators to jail and leave them there until they die. The message is there and it is clear - "You are not civilised, you are not part of society. We the society are civilised and so we will not treat you like you treated your victims, but we will choose your destiny. Your life is now owned by society and society chooses to let you live."
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol "Nagy, you have won the internets." - Keith Barrow
OK, Here's a suggestion. Make them a slave to the victim's family for the rest of their natural lives.
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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So therefore execution does not remove people from society. Unless you don't believe that the people executed are going to hell?
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So therefore execution does not remove people from society.
How so? Society is a group of people living together. How does killing someone not remove them from that?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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- death is just an occupational hazard for murderers, kill all of them. - throw them in prison, stand back, and let them kill each other. In fact, give them some cars to make it more interesting[^]. - if you kill a killer, are you really any better? - it wouldn't really be killing anyway, we'd just euthanize them. - murderers might as well be useful and "donate" their organs. - murderers aren't people in the first place, so who cares what happens to them? - death isn't good enough, force them to kill their own children so they can share the experience. - prisoners are useful for all sorts of things, like slave labour[^] and drug testing, so throw those murderers in prison. - no sane person would commit murder, so murderers must have a dangerous psychological disease which should be eradicated. I'm sure that for each of these opinions, at least one person could be found who holds them.
harold aptroot wrote:
I'm sure that for each of these opinions, at least one person could be found who holds them.
I wonder if there is someone who holds all of those opinions. :rolleyes:
Author of Primary ROleplaying SysTem How do I take my coffee? Black as midnight on a moonless night. War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
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harold aptroot wrote:
I'm sure that for each of these opinions, at least one person could be found who holds them.
I wonder if there is someone who holds all of those opinions. :rolleyes:
Author of Primary ROleplaying SysTem How do I take my coffee? Black as midnight on a moonless night. War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
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Justice. I support a society that votes on whether or not to use the death penalty. I support both sides. Since no restitution can be made by the offender both sides are valid. I do support the death penalty when there is no doubt of guilt. There's no reason to keep them alive.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Justice.
Has nothing to do with justice. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. It's not a deterrent, it doesn't add anything productive nor anything of value.
ryanb31 wrote:
I do support the death penalty when there is no doubt of guilt.
There is always doubt. DNA testing can go wrong, and even with 500 witnesses you'd have to rule out that you didn't accidentally apprehended his twin.
ryanb31 wrote:
There's no reason to keep them alive.
Same goes for any person. Why keep sick people alive? Any good reason to do so? Then again, people who want to bring the death-penalty back are a problem for society - not my problem :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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ryanb31 wrote:
Justice.
Has nothing to do with justice. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. It's not a deterrent, it doesn't add anything productive nor anything of value.
ryanb31 wrote:
I do support the death penalty when there is no doubt of guilt.
There is always doubt. DNA testing can go wrong, and even with 500 witnesses you'd have to rule out that you didn't accidentally apprehended his twin.
ryanb31 wrote:
There's no reason to keep them alive.
Same goes for any person. Why keep sick people alive? Any good reason to do so? Then again, people who want to bring the death-penalty back are a problem for society - not my problem :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
ryanb31 wrote:
There's no reason to keep them alive.
Same goes for any person. Why keep sick people alive? Any good reason to do so?
A UK Councillor has just resigned for the second time because he keeps saying that disabled children should be killed.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
ryanb31 wrote:
There's no reason to keep them alive.
Same goes for any person. Why keep sick people alive? Any good reason to do so?
A UK Councillor has just resigned for the second time because he keeps saying that disabled children should be killed.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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So therefore execution does not remove people from society.
How so? Society is a group of people living together. How does killing someone not remove them from that?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Justice.
Has nothing to do with justice. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. It's not a deterrent, it doesn't add anything productive nor anything of value.
ryanb31 wrote:
I do support the death penalty when there is no doubt of guilt.
There is always doubt. DNA testing can go wrong, and even with 500 witnesses you'd have to rule out that you didn't accidentally apprehended his twin.
ryanb31 wrote:
There's no reason to keep them alive.
Same goes for any person. Why keep sick people alive? Any good reason to do so? Then again, people who want to bring the death-penalty back are a problem for society - not my problem :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Has nothing to do with justice
Wrong. You asked what my motives were. I told you. You are not qualified to tell me what my motives are. You may not agree, but for me, it is justice.
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It's not a deterrent,
First off, who ever said justice was about deterring people? Secondly, why isn't it a deterrent? Are you suggesting life in jail is more of a deterrent than the death penalty? The problem is, for cruel murderers, there IS NO DETERRENT.
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add anything productive nor anything of value.
But neither does letting them live. I thought you were arguing to keep them alive?
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There is always doubt.
No there isn't. There are witnesses, confessions, etc.
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even with 500 witnesses you'd have to rule out that you didn't accidentally apprehended his twin.
Well, if we can't do that then we have bigger problems.
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Same goes for any person. Why keep sick people alive? Any good reason to do so?
Either you truly believe this which is sick and insane or you are trying to make an analogy. You can't possibly compare a sick person to a murderer.
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people who want to bring the death-penalty back
In many places, it isn't gone.
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not my problem
Then why worry about it?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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You said above that execution was better than incarceration because it removed people from society. By your own definition of society both a prison and hell are societies. So both remove an offender from our society and place them in another society.
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First off, you're stretching what I said, secondly who cares? What's your point?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
