When did Programmers become Developers?
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... in CP profile settings !!!
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Neither, it's a tattooist!
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Actually I thought you were a piss artist?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Actually I thought you were a piss artist?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Today I'm the navigator driver!
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol "Nagy, you have won the internets." - Keith Barrow
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So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
"The Napster" :-D But seriously, it just doesn't matter because the contents of the job doesn't match the title anyway and it differs from company to company...
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Ah yes, that famous article, also known as "How To Get a Boring Job, And Other Career Advice". Developer has a vague smell of Real Estate about it, mixed with a little Delusions of Grandeur. Programmer describes exactly what you're doing: you're programming. You're not building something. Software is a not a building.
harold aptroot wrote:
Developer has a vague smell of Real Estate about it, mixed with a little Delusions of Grandeur. Programmer describes exactly what you're doing: you're programming. You're not building something. Software is a not a building.
Upvoted, and I am seriously tempted to create a few CodeProject accounts so I could update this even more. "Programming" means "creating computer programs" and that's exactly what we do. Why do we need to call ourselves engineers (where are the engines?) or architects (ditto for buildings and cities)?
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Simon Lee Shugar wrote:
developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
The truth. A programmer is someone who writes code. Nothing else. A developer is a programmer with more tasks than writing code, like creating specs or a design.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
A programmer is someone who writes code. Nothing else.
Someone who just writes code is a coder. A programmer creates computer programs - that includes coding, but also design, etc.
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Ah yes, that famous article, also known as "How To Get a Boring Job, And Other Career Advice". Developer has a vague smell of Real Estate about it, mixed with a little Delusions of Grandeur. Programmer describes exactly what you're doing: you're programming. You're not building something. Software is a not a building.
harold aptroot wrote:
Programmer describes exactly what you're doing: you're programming
I see a programmer as someone who puts code into a computer or chip. Not necessarily code that they wrote.
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Dave Kreskowiak -
So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
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So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
Simon Lee Shugar wrote:
what should it be, developer, programmer
What does it matter? Are you going to approach your job differently if you are called one but not the other?
Simon Lee Shugar wrote:
which do you prefer
Personally, I prefer the title of "Employed". Anything else does not matter at all.
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So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
To me it doesn't matter. I will do the same job, whatever my title is, in fact, my official title is "Computer Systems Analyst", and even though I get to do some analysis and design whenever I get the freedom to (not very often), most of my time I spend programming. To me, calling yourself "software engineer", "software developer", etc. is akin to a salesman calling himself a "Sales Executive" or a secretary calling himself/herself an "Executive Assistant", it's just an attempt to make the job sound more important or move away from the perception that people have about the other word, and perhaps something to make yourself feel better, but in the end, it changes nothing, because what you do doesn't change, salary doesn't change and hapinness can't be found in a job title. So in my case, I don't give a flying rodent's behind about my job title, as long as I'm employed, getting paid on time, and they let me do my job.
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right - Henry Ford Emmanuel Medina Lopez
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So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
When not actively looking for a job, I usually list myself as Computer Weenie. If I am looking for a job, I'll change it to Programmer...in case any potential employer goes web-sniffing.
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I think the why is that there are no existing words that describe the functions performed sufficiently well that non technical people will understand.
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
I think the why is that there are no existing words that describe the functions performed sufficiently well that non technical people will understand.
Blueprints = program designs/diagrams. Architect = designer/chief designer/systems analyst Developing = programming Foundation = foundation (this one's a better than average analogy) Framework = this is used for a dozen different meanings, from toolkit to template to app-management kit, so is inherently inaccurate. There is also analogous terminology from a large number of other trades/professions that could be used, but they wouldn't give us the singularly inappropriate image of muscly builders. I think we should use hairdressing terms; that would cure a lot of the big-ego problems.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
I think the why is that there are no existing words that describe the functions performed sufficiently well that non technical people will understand.
Blueprints = program designs/diagrams. Architect = designer/chief designer/systems analyst Developing = programming Foundation = foundation (this one's a better than average analogy) Framework = this is used for a dozen different meanings, from toolkit to template to app-management kit, so is inherently inaccurate. There is also analogous terminology from a large number of other trades/professions that could be used, but they wouldn't give us the singularly inappropriate image of muscly builders. I think we should use hairdressing terms; that would cure a lot of the big-ego problems.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
You make my point - those terms are existing but don't properly describe what is being done in the role - a programmer should probably be called a builder? or maybe a Brickie. the point is, we borrow words from other industries and apply a 'best-fit' approach rather than using new words (like programmer) Oh, and before someone corrects me, I am aware that even the word programmer was borrowed from a word meaning "event planner" I think we should have "Program Code Writers" and "Program Designers" - makes more sense really?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
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So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
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harold aptroot wrote:
Ok, but it's still not a building.
Let me see someone build a house, while I keep changing the specs until the very last day, where I need not be realistic at all (since they can build it!), and get bugfixes for free for a few years. Perhaps it should become "Software Miracle Maker" :suss:
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
Simon Lee Shugar wrote:
So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
I prefer to relate to people based on what they do and how the do it versus attempting to categorize them based on a title. Especially titles that are not well defined in the first place.
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You make my point - those terms are existing but don't properly describe what is being done in the role - a programmer should probably be called a builder? or maybe a Brickie. the point is, we borrow words from other industries and apply a 'best-fit' approach rather than using new words (like programmer) Oh, and before someone corrects me, I am aware that even the word programmer was borrowed from a word meaning "event planner" I think we should have "Program Code Writers" and "Program Designers" - makes more sense really?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Nah, I think we should stick with "colourists" and "stylists". Not much chance of egos getting too big, then.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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harold aptroot wrote:
Ok, but it's still not a building.
Let me see someone build a house, while I keep changing the specs until the very last day, where I need not be realistic at all (since they can build it!), and get bugfixes for free for a few years. Perhaps it should become "Software Miracle Maker" :suss:
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Software Miracle Maker
I like that :) On a more serious note, I think 'algorithm inventor' pretty accurately describes what I do most of the time.
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Deep in the mists of time ... When I started in IT, or Data Processing as it was called, we had five basic life forms. At the processing end we had:
- the clerks producing the paper forms.
- the data prep girls who punched the form data onto paper tape or cards.
- the computer operators who fed the punched media into the computer and sent the printed reports back to the clerks.
None of this could happen without computer programs, which we operators fed into the computer from magnetic tape to start each processing job. The programs were created by two groups.
- the Systems Analysts who looked at the business requirements and broke them down into a series of logical steps.
- the programmers who converted the analysts' specifications into program source code, which was then compiled into a runnable program.
One of the benefits of such a system was full employment. :) In those days they were definitely just programmers, but now most programmers do much more than just coding so I think Developer or even Software Engineer is a much more valid title.
Use the best guess
When I started, we had to make the box and the circuit boards before programming it. Mostly computers were hard-wired. (1960's - 1970's) Differentiation in labour has happened since then. I see the Developer as an Application Developer. This is applying existing software to manipulate information for business production. A software engineer makes new software, or embeds software into an engineering project. Engineers or Ingenieur. Obviously electronic systems are full of things called engines, but in Germany for instance, engineering is to do with being ingenious. Metaphor: An artist uses the brush and paper. But someone had to make these things. The developer used the existing tools and materials to produce a business benefit. An Architect makes the factory. The factory is then used to make the product. Programmer is a rather dated term when operating instructions had to be programmed or 'fed in' to a business computer to make it work in a certain way. We now tend to use the terms correctly. Operating systems: These are made by engineers. Vertical programs: These are the software platforms like Visual Studio. Again: made by engineering. Business Applications: Using Visual Studio, a developer makes a simpler custom application for a customer.