Freelancers
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I had to freelance out some web work in MVC 4.5 and Sql server. I used e-lance to find a contractor. After sifting through 25 + "vendors" one was selected - I submitted a specification as well as a complete database and a sample web site to use. The estimate was for 3 weeks of work - 7 weeks later I am still fighting issues like passwords in plain text, hard-coded paths, Sql dumps printed to forms, uploads not working etc etc Has anyone had good experiences with work farmed-out like this?
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I had to freelance out some web work in MVC 4.5 and Sql server. I used e-lance to find a contractor. After sifting through 25 + "vendors" one was selected - I submitted a specification as well as a complete database and a sample web site to use. The estimate was for 3 weeks of work - 7 weeks later I am still fighting issues like passwords in plain text, hard-coded paths, Sql dumps printed to forms, uploads not working etc etc Has anyone had good experiences with work farmed-out like this?
eLance used to be vWorker, which used to be RentACoder - and the quality of the "consultants" is reflected in the need to change names! It features cheap (probably for a reason) coders who it would appear can't get a job elsewhere (again, probably for a reason). Because most of the bids are for trivial money (compared with hiring a professional) you can't expect a quality product - and I've never heard of anyone who got one. If you bid a sensible amount for quality work there, you will not get the job, because you are vastly undercut by people who will produce anything vaguely resembling your specification for next to nothing. Caveat emptor: Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Hopefully, you have not paid out much - because the chances are that the major design problems are currently completely hidden by the minor design problems!
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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eLance used to be vWorker, which used to be RentACoder - and the quality of the "consultants" is reflected in the need to change names! It features cheap (probably for a reason) coders who it would appear can't get a job elsewhere (again, probably for a reason). Because most of the bids are for trivial money (compared with hiring a professional) you can't expect a quality product - and I've never heard of anyone who got one. If you bid a sensible amount for quality work there, you will not get the job, because you are vastly undercut by people who will produce anything vaguely resembling your specification for next to nothing. Caveat emptor: Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Hopefully, you have not paid out much - because the chances are that the major design problems are currently completely hidden by the minor design problems!
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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|> Wrong type! Did you consider posting this as a Tip? :cool:
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
:laugh: Not sure the hamsters would approve... ;)
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt -
:laugh: Not sure the hamsters would approve... ;)
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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I had to freelance out some web work in MVC 4.5 and Sql server. I used e-lance to find a contractor. After sifting through 25 + "vendors" one was selected - I submitted a specification as well as a complete database and a sample web site to use. The estimate was for 3 weeks of work - 7 weeks later I am still fighting issues like passwords in plain text, hard-coded paths, Sql dumps printed to forms, uploads not working etc etc Has anyone had good experiences with work farmed-out like this?
I made a living for 20 years as a "freelancer". I think I managed to provide mostly "positive experiences" for clients but to do so requires a number of preconditions. I would never have taken on 3 weeks work particularly if the time estimate came from the client. Who made the estimate for this time? If it really was only 3 weeks why did it need an outsider?
Peter Wasser Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. Frank Zappa
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Ah. You haven't had your Induction Tour yet, or it was so long ago, your have forgotten. I'll try and give you the "management summary" Codeproject does not run on silicon based PCs - it uses an Organic processor utilising Hamster DNA (and indeed whole Hamsters) for both web server and backend database systems. Chris is a gestalt of hamster consciousness used to present a "human face" to our overlords. It was all Bob's plan, but the hamsters evolved past his original design after a nasty SQL injection incident.
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt -
I had to freelance out some web work in MVC 4.5 and Sql server. I used e-lance to find a contractor. After sifting through 25 + "vendors" one was selected - I submitted a specification as well as a complete database and a sample web site to use. The estimate was for 3 weeks of work - 7 weeks later I am still fighting issues like passwords in plain text, hard-coded paths, Sql dumps printed to forms, uploads not working etc etc Has anyone had good experiences with work farmed-out like this?
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Ah. You haven't had your Induction Tour yet, or it was so long ago, your have forgotten. I'll try and give you the "management summary" Codeproject does not run on silicon based PCs - it uses an Organic processor utilising Hamster DNA (and indeed whole Hamsters) for both web server and backend database systems. Chris is a gestalt of hamster consciousness used to present a "human face" to our overlords. It was all Bob's plan, but the hamsters evolved past his original design after a nasty SQL injection incident.
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
:thumbsup: A superbly styled revelation leading me to an epiphany I sensed, somewhere, deep in my unconscious, was waiting to happen. That "precognition" (if you will) sometimes took the form of bizarre perceptions such as the idea that CP was a projection of some hive-mind alien form of life, a kind of anti-matter form of an anti-Ballmer. Until now, however, I just discounted such mental states as just ordinary hallucinations. thanks, Bill
~ “This isn't right; this isn't even wrong." Wolfgang Pauli, commenting on a physics paper submitted for a journal
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Ah. You haven't had your Induction Tour yet, or it was so long ago, your have forgotten. I'll try and give you the "management summary" Codeproject does not run on silicon based PCs - it uses an Organic processor utilising Hamster DNA (and indeed whole Hamsters) for both web server and backend database systems. Chris is a gestalt of hamster consciousness used to present a "human face" to our overlords. It was all Bob's plan, but the hamsters evolved past his original design after a nasty SQL injection incident.
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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:thumbsup: A superbly styled revelation leading me to an epiphany I sensed, somewhere, deep in my unconscious, was waiting to happen. That "precognition" (if you will) sometimes took the form of bizarre perceptions such as the idea that CP was a projection of some hive-mind alien form of life, a kind of anti-matter form of an anti-Ballmer. Until now, however, I just discounted such mental states as just ordinary hallucinations. thanks, Bill
~ “This isn't right; this isn't even wrong." Wolfgang Pauli, commenting on a physics paper submitted for a journal
For the rest you need to consult the 'Bob files' but unfortunately due to the power of Bob these cannot be posted on CP or elsewhere for very long, they just disappear. Anyway it appears that Bob is currently in cryogenic deep sleep beneath an anonymous office building awaiting a pick up by his 'people' after surviving a crash in Canada due to solar storm activity back in 1998. The full details of his faustian pact with the original Mr Maunder are unclear mostly due to his being consumed by the subsequent revolution of Bob's 'hamster' minions but safe to say that while Bob's brain is used to make CP work he is not doing it for free. Their will be a price to pay when and if his friends turn up. Until then enjoy CP's awesomeness while it lasts. :)
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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For the rest you need to consult the 'Bob files' but unfortunately due to the power of Bob these cannot be posted on CP or elsewhere for very long, they just disappear. Anyway it appears that Bob is currently in cryogenic deep sleep beneath an anonymous office building awaiting a pick up by his 'people' after surviving a crash in Canada due to solar storm activity back in 1998. The full details of his faustian pact with the original Mr Maunder are unclear mostly due to his being consumed by the subsequent revolution of Bob's 'hamster' minions but safe to say that while Bob's brain is used to make CP work he is not doing it for free. Their will be a price to pay when and if his friends turn up. Until then enjoy CP's awesomeness while it lasts. :)
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
You guys need to get a separate topic created to document this story line. Then CP could host a contest to turn it into an online game. If I may suggest a topic for your next installment: "Yellowstone erupts and the pyroclastic flow thaws Bob. He orders the zombie hamsters to unite and begin their march."
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I made a living for 20 years as a "freelancer". I think I managed to provide mostly "positive experiences" for clients but to do so requires a number of preconditions. I would never have taken on 3 weeks work particularly if the time estimate came from the client. Who made the estimate for this time? If it really was only 3 weeks why did it need an outsider?
Peter Wasser Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. Frank Zappa
pwasser wrote:
I made a living for 20 years as a "freelancer".
Yeah but did you ever try and get work through rentacoder! I spent the 90s as a freelancer, I called myself a consultant and survived from repeat business, the highest accolade I know of!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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pwasser wrote:
I made a living for 20 years as a "freelancer".
Yeah but did you ever try and get work through rentacoder! I spent the 90s as a freelancer, I called myself a consultant and survived from repeat business, the highest accolade I know of!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I think if one wrote a summary of the experience of successful freelancers this would be near the top of the list. Also in my experience the best clients were the ones I found myself. I stopped using agencies very early on - in fact they were more a hindrance. Yes the rentacoder model seems quite flawed.
Peter Wasser Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. Frank Zappa
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eLance used to be vWorker, which used to be RentACoder - and the quality of the "consultants" is reflected in the need to change names! It features cheap (probably for a reason) coders who it would appear can't get a job elsewhere (again, probably for a reason). Because most of the bids are for trivial money (compared with hiring a professional) you can't expect a quality product - and I've never heard of anyone who got one. If you bid a sensible amount for quality work there, you will not get the job, because you are vastly undercut by people who will produce anything vaguely resembling your specification for next to nothing. Caveat emptor: Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Hopefully, you have not paid out much - because the chances are that the major design problems are currently completely hidden by the minor design problems!
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
I worked for sometime as freelancer at vworker(renatacoder at that time). Although the coding in first few projects might someday feature in Hall of Shame but they were very small projects and did exactly what client asked for and majority of clients seemed to be happy with our work. I think what worked in our favor was that we knew our limitations and made it a point to always tell the truth to client. Maybe you were just unlucky to get a not so good person first time or the limit of 3 weeks and the budget assigned to the project might have seemed high risk for more serious workers to try and bid on your project.
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I had to freelance out some web work in MVC 4.5 and Sql server. I used e-lance to find a contractor. After sifting through 25 + "vendors" one was selected - I submitted a specification as well as a complete database and a sample web site to use. The estimate was for 3 weeks of work - 7 weeks later I am still fighting issues like passwords in plain text, hard-coded paths, Sql dumps printed to forms, uploads not working etc etc Has anyone had good experiences with work farmed-out like this?
I hope you haven't choosen your contractor based solely on price/eta otherwise you are pretty much elephanted.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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eLance used to be vWorker, which used to be RentACoder - and the quality of the "consultants" is reflected in the need to change names! It features cheap (probably for a reason) coders who it would appear can't get a job elsewhere (again, probably for a reason). Because most of the bids are for trivial money (compared with hiring a professional) you can't expect a quality product - and I've never heard of anyone who got one. If you bid a sensible amount for quality work there, you will not get the job, because you are vastly undercut by people who will produce anything vaguely resembling your specification for next to nothing. Caveat emptor: Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Hopefully, you have not paid out much - because the chances are that the major design problems are currently completely hidden by the minor design problems!
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
OriginalGriff, You are mistaken about eLance. vWorker was RentACoder, but vWorker was absorbed by Freelancer.com. I am a freelancer that had a profile on both Freelancer and vWorker when they did it - it was a mess! eLance, if you are cautious and not cheap, can yield a good experience for anybody - but if you get caught up in the "bargains" you will end up with a very bad experience! As to Freelancer.com - I would not recommend this site to anybody. It is a cutthroat community that emphasizes "bargains" over value, can and will take your money (both employers and freelancers), and has few of the controls that the more reputable freelancer sites have (e.g. ODesk, Elance, and Guru). Regards, John Walton P.S. I am a professional database developer with almost 20 years of experience, and although I would love to charge "professional" rates and have a "professional" job, it is very difficult to find a job anywhere in the software industry when you have a felony record - being a freelancer has allowed me to survive.
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I had to freelance out some web work in MVC 4.5 and Sql server. I used e-lance to find a contractor. After sifting through 25 + "vendors" one was selected - I submitted a specification as well as a complete database and a sample web site to use. The estimate was for 3 weeks of work - 7 weeks later I am still fighting issues like passwords in plain text, hard-coded paths, Sql dumps printed to forms, uploads not working etc etc Has anyone had good experiences with work farmed-out like this?
I tried my hand at doing some freelancing work for a while using one of those freelance sites. Often I would see "employers" post work that was rather vague, typically stating that details would be provided after bidding. The thing is, how do I know what to honestly bid if I have no idea how much effort I will have to put into it (not even a rough estimate). Yet there would be plenty of "workers" that place bids, often claiming they can provide a solution quickly (like they really know that based on the limited requirements posted). :confused: I've also seen ones that obviously bid without even reading the requirements.. an example being that it had to be done by an individual and/or limited to a worker of a specific country (I guess for legal reasons, or just to avoid the miscommunication hassles), and some bid that clearly don't match the requirement (based on their profile or bid statement). I've even seen some novice employers ask for unrealistic [if not impossible] work (i.e. they don't understand the technical limitations), and yet some would bid "can do, no problem" (to the effect). :mad: So yes, there are definitely some on those sites that are just trying to make a quick buck and will scam people into hiring them, but then there are legit workers too. The down side is that the "fast talking scammers" probably tend to be more visible/self promoting and more likely to be awarded the work as a result. And while I don't know how detailed your initial project description was.. if it was too vague, it may have been avoided by some of the real workers (for the same reason I skipped some), leaving more of the scum only. Perhaps if that site had more levels of biding (e.g. an "I'm interested" non-amount, project specific, response, just to get access to more details), or runner-up awarding if the primary awarded bidder couldn't complete it for a fast fallback (then one might feel less guilty bidding when unsure), it might have been better.
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I had to freelance out some web work in MVC 4.5 and Sql server. I used e-lance to find a contractor. After sifting through 25 + "vendors" one was selected - I submitted a specification as well as a complete database and a sample web site to use. The estimate was for 3 weeks of work - 7 weeks later I am still fighting issues like passwords in plain text, hard-coded paths, Sql dumps printed to forms, uploads not working etc etc Has anyone had good experiences with work farmed-out like this?
howzit! am currently use freelancers on elance. we used a team of russians on phase 1 and are busy with a crowd from india for phase 2 (they are quite big and they have a local presence - as it turns out). our phase 1 was a month late in delivery but it got done and the code is solid - mvc4+sql+kendoui etc! have a bit of a communication issue with the new lot but we are getting there. we are using the escrow funding option as opposed to time & materials, so we do have some form of recourse if it hits the fan. but, we are closely managing the project almost on a daily basis, with weekly builds & check-ins a requirement (so we can see the code) to make sure we are all on the same page and while i had a scare or two the issues are sorted for the most part. it sounds like a management issue on your part maybe, cause if you went time & materials, you would have already known by the first week already if something was amiss! especially if you had insisted on a check-in-before-pay scenario, which would have anyway required you to first approve their time-sheets for work done. worst case scenario, you would have only lost a weeks pay instead of ending up paying 7 weeks down the line. you need to draw a line in the sand and 'manage' them - definitely crack-the-whip a few times. elance also give you, as the client, the opportunity to review contractor performance and it does count against their record - permanently! they cannot erase your comments on the work they delivered. unless of course you opted to move outside of elance as per contractor request to avoid them paying the commission to elance - bad move, you would have had to cancel the job, negatively affecting your track record as a paying client, and had no access to mediation or nothing. in fact your nda may also probably be null an void. their are plenty of solid contractors, but as with any industry, it always going to be a crap shoot - especially if you didnt do your homework!
No one knows the things of a man except the spirit of that man; likewise no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God whom we have received. He who is joined to the Lord, is ONE Spirit with him(Jesus) - 1Cor 2:10-16 & 6:17
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I had to freelance out some web work in MVC 4.5 and Sql server. I used e-lance to find a contractor. After sifting through 25 + "vendors" one was selected - I submitted a specification as well as a complete database and a sample web site to use. The estimate was for 3 weeks of work - 7 weeks later I am still fighting issues like passwords in plain text, hard-coded paths, Sql dumps printed to forms, uploads not working etc etc Has anyone had good experiences with work farmed-out like this?
