Is Dawkins Right?
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I hear your point Nicholas, though: The Christian church may have been proven wrong, but that does not shed any light on the existence of god question. Another interesting thing to notice is that there are quite a number of prophecies in the old testimony which (up to now as far as I know) have stood their ground completely, which I must say, is quite amazing for a book 3,300 years old (roughly). Further more, around 95% of History's top scientists believed in god. You can believe or not but it is sure foolish to think that your choice of the two is backed up with any scientific finding or that it is smarter to think one way or the other.
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
Please take no offense from the following. I'm merely playing a bit the devil's advocate (how does it come so much of these idioms are based on religion :laugh:) albeit I can stand behind some of those points.
Maimonides wrote:
The Christian church may have been proven wrong, but that does not shed any light on the existence of god question.
I'm not sure if get what you meant with that sentence. So... How do you disprove something which does not exist? (You can't. So as you can't disprove the existence of unicorns because you just haven't seen one yet does not mean there isn't one somewhere. That's exactly an argument I hear sometimes as an argument for the existence of god.) So talking about the existence of god is for nothing. Atheits believe there is none, all others believe there is (at least) one. Sure, there have happened things which science can't explain, but I say science just can't explain them yet. ;)
Maimonides wrote:
Another interesting thing to notice is that there are quite a number of prophecies in the old testimony which (up to now as far as I know) have stood their ground completely
Not having read in the bible for more than 5 years: Which ones would that be? :) I don't remember prophecies. I remember some different things happening. A lot of description. Like one of todays Fantasy novels (only not that interesting for me) ;)
Maimonides wrote:
Further more, around 95% of History's top scientists believed in god.
That might be true (I did not check that number). But until a few years (or decades) past you were a complete outsider as an atheist. (and even killed). You also wouldn't want to be shunned by a whole village, city or event country. However, there is no way to find those that did not believe in god ;). So telling everybody that you believe in god (even if you don't) lets you have a way more easier life than if you say that you do not. (It's like someone asks you "How are you?" and you answer "Fine and you?" instead of telling them all your problems so they stop bugging you about it ;))
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Science explains HOW the plain flies from A to B, it does not and cannot explain WHY it flies from A to B. Psychologists have attempted to explain but since the suicide rate at their communities is so high they never really get anywhere... :sigh:
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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Science explains HOW the plain flies from A to B, it does not and cannot explain WHY it flies from A to B. Psychologists have attempted to explain but since the suicide rate at their communities is so high they never really get anywhere... :sigh:
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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Statistically speaking: 1. If god exists: a. the the believers have 50% to get to heaven. b. the non-believers have 0%. 2. If god does not exist: - Both have 0% to get to heaven. If is was suitcases and money what would you choose?
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
2. if god does not exist: nobody goes to hell, you just cease to be ;) If you led a good or a bad life you'll see when you get old (good when you're loved by family and friends, bad when you're going to die alone). Do that what you do for life, not for death and an at best unsure afterlife.
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Please take no offense from the following. I'm merely playing a bit the devil's advocate (how does it come so much of these idioms are based on religion :laugh:) albeit I can stand behind some of those points.
Maimonides wrote:
The Christian church may have been proven wrong, but that does not shed any light on the existence of god question.
I'm not sure if get what you meant with that sentence. So... How do you disprove something which does not exist? (You can't. So as you can't disprove the existence of unicorns because you just haven't seen one yet does not mean there isn't one somewhere. That's exactly an argument I hear sometimes as an argument for the existence of god.) So talking about the existence of god is for nothing. Atheits believe there is none, all others believe there is (at least) one. Sure, there have happened things which science can't explain, but I say science just can't explain them yet. ;)
Maimonides wrote:
Another interesting thing to notice is that there are quite a number of prophecies in the old testimony which (up to now as far as I know) have stood their ground completely
Not having read in the bible for more than 5 years: Which ones would that be? :) I don't remember prophecies. I remember some different things happening. A lot of description. Like one of todays Fantasy novels (only not that interesting for me) ;)
Maimonides wrote:
Further more, around 95% of History's top scientists believed in god.
That might be true (I did not check that number). But until a few years (or decades) past you were a complete outsider as an atheist. (and even killed). You also wouldn't want to be shunned by a whole village, city or event country. However, there is no way to find those that did not believe in god ;). So telling everybody that you believe in god (even if you don't) lets you have a way more easier life than if you say that you do not. (It's like someone asks you "How are you?" and you answer "Fine and you?" instead of telling them all your problems so they stop bugging you about it ;))
- You are definitely a nice secular chap Nicholas, how can someone be offended by you? - Many things that do not exist can be proven not to exist, by contradiction [^] - E.G. there was a prophecy that Babylon, once destroyed will never be built again. Now, this prophecy, hold till now. And many (along some 2,300 years!), have tried rebuilding it, one of which was the late Saddam Hussein. It still lays in ruins. You are welcome to try building it, to prove the prophecy wrong. - I guess I am the outsider now (look at all the hostile posts) :sigh:
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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Maimonides wrote:
it does not and cannot explain WHY it flies from A to B
What's so hard about that? Go ask the owner why they sent it to B. Maybe to bring something. Maybe to pick something up. Probably both, because flying empty is a waste of money.
Go and ask the owner of the world ... let me know the answer (how quick will a 42 reply come?)
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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Statistically speaking: 1. If god exists: a. the the believers have 50% to get to heaven. b. the non-believers have 0%. 2. If god does not exist: - Both have 0% to get to heaven. If is was suitcases and money what would you choose?
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
That presumes the existence of heaven, that the person continues in some form after death and that god will send that person to heaven for believing. As a catholic Descartes's reasoning is good, but to non-catholics the above points make it flawed. An antithesis to the wager, form an atheist perspective: Assume god does not exist: There is no afterlife or heaven. Believer: spends time and effort (and normally limit behaviour) in their only life* Non-Beleiver: Can live without the restrictions imposed by religion ** You know you have this life/existence (ironically, according to Descartes, the one thing you can know). The believer wastes at least a portion of their life on their beliefs, but this is an unbelievably precious resource. In the atheist scheme, this is a bet they won't win. *This is the effective result of most religions. ** Note that this does not imply a better or happier life however.
PB 369,783 wrote:
I just find him very unlikeable, and I think the way he looks like a prettier version of his Mum is very disturbing.[^]
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Go and ask the owner of the world ... let me know the answer (how quick will a 42 reply come?)
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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2. if god does not exist: nobody goes to hell, you just cease to be ;) If you led a good or a bad life you'll see when you get old (good when you're loved by family and friends, bad when you're going to die alone). Do that what you do for life, not for death and an at best unsure afterlife.
You are right of course. I find it somewhat sad that someone thinks that all that defines his existence, is his body...
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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Maimonides wrote:
explains HOW the plain flies
The rane in Spane falls manely on the plane.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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You said to ask the owner. Well, ask the owner. ** About the plain[^]
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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One argument: If you don't understand why something is happening and say/believe it is the will of god(s) why should you want to find reasons for that? If you don't understand something and you don't believe in gods and if you're curious (that makes a difference) this will eventually let you dig deeper into science to find reasons why something might happen. Religious institutions like the christian church have been proved wrong many times and have been showing to be brakes for inventions and science. Thank god (oh the irony :D) that it hasn't that great an influence anymore (at least in western europe, I don't know how this is in other countries/continents) Religion has done more harm than good in my opinion (think of all the wars fought in the name of one god or another). We would probably be better of without any religion at all Note: I did not intend to offend anyone who might be religious. This is merely my opinion.
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:thumbsup: Surrender to the atheist overlords, ahmm ... that's an interesting thought. There's a catch though - since they are atheists, remember that you can't believe them too. So in your case, just stay in constant denial.
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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That is usually true Harold, should be replied to the post who suggested it, look it up a couple of replies ...
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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5ed! How'd you know? looks like if it wasn't for me, it'd be rather quiet...
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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- You are definitely a nice secular chap Nicholas, how can someone be offended by you? - Many things that do not exist can be proven not to exist, by contradiction [^] - E.G. there was a prophecy that Babylon, once destroyed will never be built again. Now, this prophecy, hold till now. And many (along some 2,300 years!), have tried rebuilding it, one of which was the late Saddam Hussein. It still lays in ruins. You are welcome to try building it, to prove the prophecy wrong. - I guess I am the outsider now (look at all the hostile posts) :sigh:
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
Proof by contradiction: So you can say, because a women gives birth to a child (and thus a human beeing) it can't be god wo gives life to humans? :D Hm. Don't know about babylon. But why can't you build there? What EXACTLY prevented people from building there? Ah I guess in IT there are just too many logical (or rational ;)) minds ;P And bringing arguments against religion is a lot of fun :D (Because you will almost never agree with each other, other than that you do not agree. So you can stretch the argument again and again)