I demand to be outraged
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CPallini wrote:
if you don't mind the order
Who are you to give me orders? Who do you think you are, Benito Mu... Sorry, sorry, got a little carried away there... :laugh:
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Rob Philpott wrote:
Well, conspiracies aside that was suicide
Really? You do realise that that is the only recorded case of somebody successfully committing suicide by slitting their wrists sideways? The reason being that if you slit across your arms ( as Kelly supposedly did) then the arteries are able to clot before you bleed to death (hence how people are able to cut their arms off when trapped and still survive). The only way to kill yourself by slitting your wrists is to slice up the artery (a very hard thing to achieve).
Wow, thank goodness for TV journalism. Do you really think if the security services were to do such a thing, they'd make such an obvious mistake?
Regards, Rob Philpott.
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CPallini wrote:
if you don't mind the order
Who are you to give me orders? Who do you think you are, Benito Mu... Sorry, sorry, got a little carried away there... :laugh:
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First I have heard of this story[^]. A crazy golf course with holes featuring Hitler and Saddam is touring the country and upsetting people who spend their time looking for things to be upset about. Personally I think that a statue of Hitler who raises his arm in salute and shouts "Nein nein nein" when you get the ball through him is genius. Should ridiculing very bad men, making them a part of a children's game, be a bad thing? Or should these men not be used in such frivolous ways because they did such bad, bad things?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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Wow, thank goodness for TV journalism. Do you really think if the security services were to do such a thing, they'd make such an obvious mistake?
Regards, Rob Philpott.
40+ years ago then no, in today's day and age yes. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure he didn't commit suicide but I think it would be naive to believe the official story, and the thing I find hard to get my head around is there are numerous accounts of people successfully sawing/biting there hands off to escape when trapped, or getting there hands chopped off as punishment and they survive. How can this not kill you but slicing your wrists can? Afterall that is only half-cutting your hand off. If you can explain this I would be more willing to believe your point of view
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40+ years ago then no, in today's day and age yes. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure he didn't commit suicide but I think it would be naive to believe the official story, and the thing I find hard to get my head around is there are numerous accounts of people successfully sawing/biting there hands off to escape when trapped, or getting there hands chopped off as punishment and they survive. How can this not kill you but slicing your wrists can? Afterall that is only half-cutting your hand off. If you can explain this I would be more willing to believe your point of view
A quick wiki of the subject (ie some of the facts from all sides) shows a school of thought that he had a heart condition that could have led to him bleeding less than normal and succumbing to the wounds more than normal. Not saying I believe he killed himself, I don't believe that he didn't either. I just don't know.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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Rob Philpott wrote:
Well, conspiracies aside that was suicide
Really? You do realise that that is the only recorded case of somebody successfully committing suicide by slitting their wrists sideways? The reason being that if you slit across your arms ( as Kelly supposedly did) then the arteries are able to clot before you bleed to death (hence how people are able to cut their arms off when trapped and still survive). The only way to kill yourself by slitting your wrists is to slice up the artery (a very hard thing to achieve).
Now that I didn't know! the whole thing was very odd.
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40+ years ago then no, in today's day and age yes. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure he didn't commit suicide but I think it would be naive to believe the official story, and the thing I find hard to get my head around is there are numerous accounts of people successfully sawing/biting there hands off to escape when trapped, or getting there hands chopped off as punishment and they survive. How can this not kill you but slicing your wrists can? Afterall that is only half-cutting your hand off. If you can explain this I would be more willing to believe your point of view
Well, I'm not a doctor. But I do know that before assuming blood is going to clot, you need to know what the platelet count is. Does anybody in the case of Mr. Kelly? Also, if your hand gets chopped off I know the arteries clench so tight as to close down. It doesn't seem unreasonable to believe this is a shock reaction, and hence one needs to be shocked for it to happen. But I don't want to argue the facts, as I barely remember them, they were from an unreliable source (the TV), I don't know how to interpret them and there was a political agenda behind trying to suggest he was murdered. I find it extremely hard to believe an order came from government to do such a thing, but quite easy to believe that the poor bloke found himself in such a stressed out state he decided to end it all. Either way, by challenging the system he ended up dead either murdered or driven to suicide. It was reprehensible, as was pretty much everything the last government did. But at the end of the day, people and establishments are innocent until proven guilty.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
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For the most part people are outraged first, and then feeling ridiculous for walking around angry for no identified reason, reach out to find something to pin the anger upon.
There you go[^], it's all true except the non-violent communication. And - for some reason the did not list alcohol, perhaps it's too obvious to list.
It is a paradox that paradoxes would actually exist in reality. That means of course that they don't exist. However, they do!
∫(Edo)dx = Tzumer ∑k(this.Kid)k = this.♥
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Maimonides wrote:
Badin reference to leaders in history is mostly determined by their loss in a battle.By all accounts Genghis was a right bastard, and he was quite good at winning battles. He did do a lot of good for the environment though.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
He comes over quite well, in this account[^].
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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OriginalGriff wrote:
Who are you to give me orders?
You overlooked my signature, didn't you? :-D
Veni, vidi, vici.
I'm not a Roman! Romanes eunt domus!
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I'm not a Roman! Romanes eunt domus!
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Yeah, but what did you ever do for us?
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Yeah, but what did you ever do for us?
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First I have heard of this story[^]. A crazy golf course with holes featuring Hitler and Saddam is touring the country and upsetting people who spend their time looking for things to be upset about. Personally I think that a statue of Hitler who raises his arm in salute and shouts "Nein nein nein" when you get the ball through him is genius. Should ridiculing very bad men, making them a part of a children's game, be a bad thing? Or should these men not be used in such frivolous ways because they did such bad, bad things?
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
Spike Milligan found making fun of the Nazis very cathartic.
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I think it's very humane, after all, Hitler did need another ball.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Perhaps he'll find it again if he can make Last Night Of The Proms.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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Rob Philpott wrote:
Well, conspiracies aside that was suicide
Really? You do realise that that is the only recorded case of somebody successfully committing suicide by slitting their wrists sideways? The reason being that if you slit across your arms ( as Kelly supposedly did) then the arteries are able to clot before you bleed to death (hence how people are able to cut their arms off when trapped and still survive). The only way to kill yourself by slitting your wrists is to slice up the artery (a very hard thing to achieve).
PB 369,783 wrote:
You do realise that that is the only recorded case of somebody successfully committing suicide by slitting their wrists sideways?
Supposing that is true are you suggesting that someone else did it? That they wanted to kill someone high up but hired someone stupid to do it? And then were not clever enough to cover it up afterwards?
PB 369,783 wrote:
hence how people are able to cut their arms off when trapped and still survive).
Sigh...are you seriously suggesting that everyone who has their arms cut off live? That they just wander around with the arms dangling for days and that every single one lives? Do you have any idea what the term 'shock' means as a medical term?
PB 369,783 wrote:
The only way to kill yourself by slitting your wrists is to slice up the artery
Nonsense. The fact that doing it that way makes it more effective doesn't mean it is impossible to do it any other way. One of the factors that make that more effective is that it makes it harder for someone else to stop the bleeding. That however doesn't matter much if no one finds you in the first place. Unfortunately though there are countless number of ways to dream up conspiracy theories.
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PB 369,783 wrote:
You do realise that that is the only recorded case of somebody successfully committing suicide by slitting their wrists sideways?
Supposing that is true are you suggesting that someone else did it? That they wanted to kill someone high up but hired someone stupid to do it? And then were not clever enough to cover it up afterwards?
PB 369,783 wrote:
hence how people are able to cut their arms off when trapped and still survive).
Sigh...are you seriously suggesting that everyone who has their arms cut off live? That they just wander around with the arms dangling for days and that every single one lives? Do you have any idea what the term 'shock' means as a medical term?
PB 369,783 wrote:
The only way to kill yourself by slitting your wrists is to slice up the artery
Nonsense. The fact that doing it that way makes it more effective doesn't mean it is impossible to do it any other way. One of the factors that make that more effective is that it makes it harder for someone else to stop the bleeding. That however doesn't matter much if no one finds you in the first place. Unfortunately though there are countless number of ways to dream up conspiracy theories.
jschell wrote:
Supposing that is true are you suggesting that someone else did it? That they wanted to kill someone high up but hired someone stupid to do it? And then were not clever enough to cover it up afterwards?
No not someone stupid, it's a little known fact (you didn't know it doesn't make you stupid), they don't go round advertising the correct way to commit suicide for a reason.
jschell wrote:
Sigh...are you seriously suggesting that everyone who has their arms cut off live?
I've looked twice now and I can't see the word everyone in what I said.
jschell wrote:
Nonsense. The fact that doing it that way makes it more effective doesn't mean it is impossible to do it any other way.
As I said the ONLY recorded suicide in this Country by sliting across your wrists is this one.
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jschell wrote:
Supposing that is true are you suggesting that someone else did it? That they wanted to kill someone high up but hired someone stupid to do it? And then were not clever enough to cover it up afterwards?
No not someone stupid, it's a little known fact (you didn't know it doesn't make you stupid), they don't go round advertising the correct way to commit suicide for a reason.
jschell wrote:
Sigh...are you seriously suggesting that everyone who has their arms cut off live?
I've looked twice now and I can't see the word everyone in what I said.
jschell wrote:
Nonsense. The fact that doing it that way makes it more effective doesn't mean it is impossible to do it any other way.
As I said the ONLY recorded suicide in this Country by sliting across your wrists is this one.
PB 369,783 wrote:
No not someone stupid, it's a little known fact (you didn't know it doesn't make you stupid), they don't go round advertising the correct way to commit suicide for a reason.
I am rather certain that someone who is well versed in killing people in such a way that makes it look like suicide and is well paid to do so would in fact have quite a bit of knowledge about exactly what allows a legal expert to decide whether a particular event is a suicide or not. And thus they wouldn't pick a method that questionable.
PB 369,783 wrote:
I've looked twice now and I can't see the word everyone in what I said.
You said "able to cut their arms off when trapped and still survive". So presumably you meant 'some people' even though you didn't state that then exactly what percentage of people, of all of those who have their arms cut off survive? And what impact does prompt medical attention have - in terms of percentage. And what does the type of injury have? Specifically what is the difference between a crushing accident where there hands are later removed versus actually sliced off initially? Keep in mind of course that you introduced the topic of having their arms cutoff completely and the survivability so apparently you think it is significant.
PB 369,783 wrote:
As I said the ONLY recorded suicide in this Country by sliting across your wrists is this one.
Which isn't surprising given that. 1. It isn't very effective 2. It isn't tried very often, especially in relation to other methods. 3. Often when it is tried it is discovered fairly rapidly. Other types of suicide methods are discovered quickly as well but when one jumps off a building, ingests large amounts of poison or shoots oneself the timeliness of discovery plays no part in the outcome. 4. It is quite likely that the reason it is less effective is because the participant wants it to be that way. Not to mention that it hurts. So unlike other methods it is at least possible that the participant is not making a real attempt. And then of course there is the fact that in the specific case in this thread there were other mitigating circumstances that contributed to the death - of which the other cases are unlikely to apply. Especially the heart problem. But one might as well claim that decapitation also can't possibly be a suicide technique be
