If you were MS, how would you do it?
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I bought the Surface RT when it came out. While I get more use out of the iPad mini and before that the Motorola Xoom, the Surface does have its moments, particularly where remote desktop is concerned. I have Win 8 installed on a test box but don't use it. All my boxes run 7. Win 8 is the new Vista, the OS people love to hate. I don't use it beyond the Surface because it doesn't really do anything for me on a PC or laptop. Sure, I can zip past Metro and go into the desktop in Win 8, but it doesn't give me anything that Win 7 isn't already doing. It also bears a striking visual resemblance to Win 3.1. Yuck. I see 8 more as a bridge OS than a right now endeavor. In another year or two, that's the OS average people will be running since that's what they'll get on their new boxes. At which point Metro will seem normal. That's where I think MS is playing the long game, which I hope will benefit both Windows Phone and tablets. A massive installed base will lead to familiarity and the possibility that people will want their computer, phone and tablet to have a common look & feel. It's not a killer strategy, but it's a reasonable one. Personally, I don't know any other way MS could do this beyond the schizophrenic creature that is Win 8. You have to have the desktop. There are too many apps out there, and a great many of them would be diminished by a phone UI (I'm going to write a book, produce a feature film, mix an album or sling code on a tablet or my phone? Unlikely.) So, if you want to get in the tablet game, you have to have a second UI suitable for mobile, and somehow try to munge them together. MS is trying to bring Windows into the mobile era, but it's no small challenge. If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
i'd buy Apple
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i'd buy Apple
I was going to suggest "I'd buy Google" - but I suspect they already did that...:~
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I bought the Surface RT when it came out. While I get more use out of the iPad mini and before that the Motorola Xoom, the Surface does have its moments, particularly where remote desktop is concerned. I have Win 8 installed on a test box but don't use it. All my boxes run 7. Win 8 is the new Vista, the OS people love to hate. I don't use it beyond the Surface because it doesn't really do anything for me on a PC or laptop. Sure, I can zip past Metro and go into the desktop in Win 8, but it doesn't give me anything that Win 7 isn't already doing. It also bears a striking visual resemblance to Win 3.1. Yuck. I see 8 more as a bridge OS than a right now endeavor. In another year or two, that's the OS average people will be running since that's what they'll get on their new boxes. At which point Metro will seem normal. That's where I think MS is playing the long game, which I hope will benefit both Windows Phone and tablets. A massive installed base will lead to familiarity and the possibility that people will want their computer, phone and tablet to have a common look & feel. It's not a killer strategy, but it's a reasonable one. Personally, I don't know any other way MS could do this beyond the schizophrenic creature that is Win 8. You have to have the desktop. There are too many apps out there, and a great many of them would be diminished by a phone UI (I'm going to write a book, produce a feature film, mix an album or sling code on a tablet or my phone? Unlikely.) So, if you want to get in the tablet game, you have to have a second UI suitable for mobile, and somehow try to munge them together. MS is trying to bring Windows into the mobile era, but it's no small challenge. If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
What you're saying makes a lot of sense and I don't think Win 8 will fail because it is not innovative I think it's more the fact that we're forced to have out PC's, Tablet's, Phone's and the kitchen sink look and feel the same. I think I would have made Win 8 UI more modular, i.e. what do YOU want it to look like and have "Plug-ins"? to make it look and feel the way the customer wants it, where the "plug-ins"? could be created by someone with a little bit of savvy. Just my two sense!
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.1 ToDo Manager Extension You're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
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I bought the Surface RT when it came out. While I get more use out of the iPad mini and before that the Motorola Xoom, the Surface does have its moments, particularly where remote desktop is concerned. I have Win 8 installed on a test box but don't use it. All my boxes run 7. Win 8 is the new Vista, the OS people love to hate. I don't use it beyond the Surface because it doesn't really do anything for me on a PC or laptop. Sure, I can zip past Metro and go into the desktop in Win 8, but it doesn't give me anything that Win 7 isn't already doing. It also bears a striking visual resemblance to Win 3.1. Yuck. I see 8 more as a bridge OS than a right now endeavor. In another year or two, that's the OS average people will be running since that's what they'll get on their new boxes. At which point Metro will seem normal. That's where I think MS is playing the long game, which I hope will benefit both Windows Phone and tablets. A massive installed base will lead to familiarity and the possibility that people will want their computer, phone and tablet to have a common look & feel. It's not a killer strategy, but it's a reasonable one. Personally, I don't know any other way MS could do this beyond the schizophrenic creature that is Win 8. You have to have the desktop. There are too many apps out there, and a great many of them would be diminished by a phone UI (I'm going to write a book, produce a feature film, mix an album or sling code on a tablet or my phone? Unlikely.) So, if you want to get in the tablet game, you have to have a second UI suitable for mobile, and somehow try to munge them together. MS is trying to bring Windows into the mobile era, but it's no small challenge. If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
It is insanely easy for MS to win the mobile market. Of course, if I revealed the strategy then Balmer would steal it and I wouldn't get the big bucks for implementing it; but trust me it is one of those solutions that just stares at you in the face and makes you go why didn't I think of that.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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It is insanely easy for MS to win the mobile market. Of course, if I revealed the strategy then Balmer would steal it and I wouldn't get the big bucks for implementing it; but trust me it is one of those solutions that just stares at you in the face and makes you go why didn't I think of that.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Quick, let's write an OS! I could use the extra money. :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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I bought the Surface RT when it came out. While I get more use out of the iPad mini and before that the Motorola Xoom, the Surface does have its moments, particularly where remote desktop is concerned. I have Win 8 installed on a test box but don't use it. All my boxes run 7. Win 8 is the new Vista, the OS people love to hate. I don't use it beyond the Surface because it doesn't really do anything for me on a PC or laptop. Sure, I can zip past Metro and go into the desktop in Win 8, but it doesn't give me anything that Win 7 isn't already doing. It also bears a striking visual resemblance to Win 3.1. Yuck. I see 8 more as a bridge OS than a right now endeavor. In another year or two, that's the OS average people will be running since that's what they'll get on their new boxes. At which point Metro will seem normal. That's where I think MS is playing the long game, which I hope will benefit both Windows Phone and tablets. A massive installed base will lead to familiarity and the possibility that people will want their computer, phone and tablet to have a common look & feel. It's not a killer strategy, but it's a reasonable one. Personally, I don't know any other way MS could do this beyond the schizophrenic creature that is Win 8. You have to have the desktop. There are too many apps out there, and a great many of them would be diminished by a phone UI (I'm going to write a book, produce a feature film, mix an album or sling code on a tablet or my phone? Unlikely.) So, if you want to get in the tablet game, you have to have a second UI suitable for mobile, and somehow try to munge them together. MS is trying to bring Windows into the mobile era, but it's no small challenge. If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
but it doesn't give me anything that Win 7 isn't already doing
I take it you are not doing any Windows Phone 8 development then. Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
Not yet, no. Hoping they'll gain some traction.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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i'd buy Apple
Better yet, get Apple to hire Balmer.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Quick, let's write an OS! I could use the extra money. :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Your response assumes my answer and is incorrect : )
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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What you're saying makes a lot of sense and I don't think Win 8 will fail because it is not innovative I think it's more the fact that we're forced to have out PC's, Tablet's, Phone's and the kitchen sink look and feel the same. I think I would have made Win 8 UI more modular, i.e. what do YOU want it to look like and have "Plug-ins"? to make it look and feel the way the customer wants it, where the "plug-ins"? could be created by someone with a little bit of savvy. Just my two sense!
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.1 ToDo Manager Extension You're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
It's a good idea but you're still faced with the same fundamental problem. How do you make one OS work for both desktop and phone without sacrificing usability for apps on either side of the street? Windows desktop is tedious beyond belief on the Surface. Metro would be a challenge to port a full featured desktop app to without it being equally tedious. Not an easy problem to solve, to be sure.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Your response assumes my answer and is incorrect : )
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Yeah, like that's new territory for me. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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It's a good idea but you're still faced with the same fundamental problem. How do you make one OS work for both desktop and phone without sacrificing usability for apps on either side of the street? Windows desktop is tedious beyond belief on the Surface. Metro would be a challenge to port a full featured desktop app to without it being equally tedious. Not an easy problem to solve, to be sure.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Years ago there was an embedded OS that was very modular in that it allowed the developer to add things to the OS that it needed. Need a GUI drop it in, need a touch capability drop it in,... It's not impossible. I don't think a Desktop PC should look and have same functionality as tablet or a phone they are completely different beasts. I don't need or want touch on my desktop and I wouldn't want a tablet without touch.
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.1 ToDo Manager Extension You're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
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I bought the Surface RT when it came out. While I get more use out of the iPad mini and before that the Motorola Xoom, the Surface does have its moments, particularly where remote desktop is concerned. I have Win 8 installed on a test box but don't use it. All my boxes run 7. Win 8 is the new Vista, the OS people love to hate. I don't use it beyond the Surface because it doesn't really do anything for me on a PC or laptop. Sure, I can zip past Metro and go into the desktop in Win 8, but it doesn't give me anything that Win 7 isn't already doing. It also bears a striking visual resemblance to Win 3.1. Yuck. I see 8 more as a bridge OS than a right now endeavor. In another year or two, that's the OS average people will be running since that's what they'll get on their new boxes. At which point Metro will seem normal. That's where I think MS is playing the long game, which I hope will benefit both Windows Phone and tablets. A massive installed base will lead to familiarity and the possibility that people will want their computer, phone and tablet to have a common look & feel. It's not a killer strategy, but it's a reasonable one. Personally, I don't know any other way MS could do this beyond the schizophrenic creature that is Win 8. You have to have the desktop. There are too many apps out there, and a great many of them would be diminished by a phone UI (I'm going to write a book, produce a feature film, mix an album or sling code on a tablet or my phone? Unlikely.) So, if you want to get in the tablet game, you have to have a second UI suitable for mobile, and somehow try to munge them together. MS is trying to bring Windows into the mobile era, but it's no small challenge. If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
I totally enjoy Win8. Actually, I have a hard time understanding what people are bitching about. So I'll probably end-up re-employing Steve.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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Not yet, no. Hoping they'll gain some traction.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
The main gripe people seem to have with WP8 compared to Android and iPhone is the lack of apps. In other words, you and I are holding WP8 back. :-O [Like you I have only installed Win8 on a test box so far] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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I bought the Surface RT when it came out. While I get more use out of the iPad mini and before that the Motorola Xoom, the Surface does have its moments, particularly where remote desktop is concerned. I have Win 8 installed on a test box but don't use it. All my boxes run 7. Win 8 is the new Vista, the OS people love to hate. I don't use it beyond the Surface because it doesn't really do anything for me on a PC or laptop. Sure, I can zip past Metro and go into the desktop in Win 8, but it doesn't give me anything that Win 7 isn't already doing. It also bears a striking visual resemblance to Win 3.1. Yuck. I see 8 more as a bridge OS than a right now endeavor. In another year or two, that's the OS average people will be running since that's what they'll get on their new boxes. At which point Metro will seem normal. That's where I think MS is playing the long game, which I hope will benefit both Windows Phone and tablets. A massive installed base will lead to familiarity and the possibility that people will want their computer, phone and tablet to have a common look & feel. It's not a killer strategy, but it's a reasonable one. Personally, I don't know any other way MS could do this beyond the schizophrenic creature that is Win 8. You have to have the desktop. There are too many apps out there, and a great many of them would be diminished by a phone UI (I'm going to write a book, produce a feature film, mix an album or sling code on a tablet or my phone? Unlikely.) So, if you want to get in the tablet game, you have to have a second UI suitable for mobile, and somehow try to munge them together. MS is trying to bring Windows into the mobile era, but it's no small challenge. If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
How I would have done it is, create a tiled Metro-ish look and feel right on top of the existing desktop. I mean, come on, when you do a new install, most of the screen is totally empty! Why not use that space more effectively, putting in some of the cool features you can find in products like Fences, but that doesn't create the schizo mind jarring shift that occurs with W8. And the taskbar is hideable anyways, so you could have the full Metro experience without the psychotic effects. And for goodness sakes, get rid of those annoying hotspots!!! There is nothing worse than a full screen app, shoving the mouse to the upper right or bottom right corner because that's where the scrollbar buttons are, and having some ridiculous icons show up, many of which (like search) don't even work for whatever app has focus!!!
Christopher Duncan wrote:
If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
I'd be the one shouting "usability! usability! usability!" Marc
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How I would have done it is, create a tiled Metro-ish look and feel right on top of the existing desktop. I mean, come on, when you do a new install, most of the screen is totally empty! Why not use that space more effectively, putting in some of the cool features you can find in products like Fences, but that doesn't create the schizo mind jarring shift that occurs with W8. And the taskbar is hideable anyways, so you could have the full Metro experience without the psychotic effects. And for goodness sakes, get rid of those annoying hotspots!!! There is nothing worse than a full screen app, shoving the mouse to the upper right or bottom right corner because that's where the scrollbar buttons are, and having some ridiculous icons show up, many of which (like search) don't even work for whatever app has focus!!!
Christopher Duncan wrote:
If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
I'd be the one shouting "usability! usability! usability!" Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
I'd be the one shouting "usability! usability! usability!"
Catchy! :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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I bought the Surface RT when it came out. While I get more use out of the iPad mini and before that the Motorola Xoom, the Surface does have its moments, particularly where remote desktop is concerned. I have Win 8 installed on a test box but don't use it. All my boxes run 7. Win 8 is the new Vista, the OS people love to hate. I don't use it beyond the Surface because it doesn't really do anything for me on a PC or laptop. Sure, I can zip past Metro and go into the desktop in Win 8, but it doesn't give me anything that Win 7 isn't already doing. It also bears a striking visual resemblance to Win 3.1. Yuck. I see 8 more as a bridge OS than a right now endeavor. In another year or two, that's the OS average people will be running since that's what they'll get on their new boxes. At which point Metro will seem normal. That's where I think MS is playing the long game, which I hope will benefit both Windows Phone and tablets. A massive installed base will lead to familiarity and the possibility that people will want their computer, phone and tablet to have a common look & feel. It's not a killer strategy, but it's a reasonable one. Personally, I don't know any other way MS could do this beyond the schizophrenic creature that is Win 8. You have to have the desktop. There are too many apps out there, and a great many of them would be diminished by a phone UI (I'm going to write a book, produce a feature film, mix an album or sling code on a tablet or my phone? Unlikely.) So, if you want to get in the tablet game, you have to have a second UI suitable for mobile, and somehow try to munge them together. MS is trying to bring Windows into the mobile era, but it's no small challenge. If they fired Balmer and hired you, how would you approach this problem?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
My feeling is that they're doing it right. But then, I actually like Windows 8. So does my wife. We also both have Surface RT's and use them heavily. You're correct that they're playing the long game (as was the case with Vista, if you think about it). I've installed Win 8.1 preview on a machine and, though I haven't used it much, I can see a lot to like in the update for people who aren't fans of 8.
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I totally enjoy Win8. Actually, I have a hard time understanding what people are bitching about. So I'll probably end-up re-employing Steve.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
It's not that I think it's bad, it just doesn't do anything for me. On a PC, I use the desktop. Metro adds no value to that equation. If I'm on the Surface, I have to bypass Metro to do many things, which is clumsy. Neither one really makes my life better.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Years ago there was an embedded OS that was very modular in that it allowed the developer to add things to the OS that it needed. Need a GUI drop it in, need a touch capability drop it in,... It's not impossible. I don't think a Desktop PC should look and have same functionality as tablet or a phone they are completely different beasts. I don't need or want touch on my desktop and I wouldn't want a tablet without touch.
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.1 ToDo Manager Extension You're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
Maybe that's the ticket. Stop trying to put Windows on a tablet. Come up with something completely new for tablet and leave Win on the desktop.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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The main gripe people seem to have with WP8 compared to Android and iPhone is the lack of apps. In other words, you and I are holding WP8 back. :-O [Like you I have only installed Win8 on a test box so far] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
My biggest gripe about developing for Metro is the whole "store" thing. Let me install my apps without MS in the middle. Thought that was a really bad move, but of course they're just emulating Apple and Android.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
