What will you do when .... ?
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i7, i7 fuck me I'm happy to have an i3, 64bit machine put a 32bit OS on it and then load on 6gb ram :doh: Don't get me started on corporate policies, I am starting a whole new set of interview questions. Does your company have a one size (minimalist) fits all hardware policy? What is the standard configuration of your dev machines? How many monitors do you allow your devs? Do your devs have local admin rights? Do you block EVERY blog/forum site on the interweb? Do you have an open plan (bench) style office layout? And I can think of about a dozen more things I hate about working for large corporates.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Does your company have a one size (minimalist) fits all hardware policy?
Not quite. Standard dev laptops are a step up the quality scale (faster CPU, more ram, discrete GPU, but still no SSD :(( ), the fact that we're able to get out of cycle upgrades by whining about performance/diskspace/etc is more significant. Despite a nominal 4 year upgrade cycle (and knowing some non-devs who ended up waiting longer than that) I got my 4th laptop at the 7 year point. I occasionally see people lugging around AlienWare laptops instead of the standard Latitude's (previously XPSes); but at least when I started that option was mostly limited to the poor bastards who had to run Oracle locally. Far too high a price.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
What is the standard configuration of your dev machines?
Not sure what the current spec is but my 18mo old system is i5-2520m (2.5ghz), 8GB, 160GB HDD, NVS 4200M (520M equivalent), w7-64.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
How many monitors do you allow your devs?
It took a big of finagling (and people say my beige box NT4 relic is worthless) but I've got 3.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Do your devs have local admin rights?
yup
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Do you block EVERY blog/forum site on the interweb?
Just mainstream blog providers (eg the ones that are
wereused for social networking. Worse is that if I were to waste an hour taking the social network training course they'd unblock farcebook/twitter on my system but not the blogs. :wtf: Supposedly if you email a request they'll unblock them in a day or two; I never bothered. Google cache is easier.Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Do you have an open plan (bench) style office layout?
Most labs are; but our cubes are 8x10 or 10x10 with walls at about 5'8" or 6'4".
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only
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i7, i7 fuck me I'm happy to have an i3, 64bit machine put a 32bit OS on it and then load on 6gb ram :doh: Don't get me started on corporate policies, I am starting a whole new set of interview questions. Does your company have a one size (minimalist) fits all hardware policy? What is the standard configuration of your dev machines? How many monitors do you allow your devs? Do your devs have local admin rights? Do you block EVERY blog/forum site on the interweb? Do you have an open plan (bench) style office layout? And I can think of about a dozen more things I hate about working for large corporates.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Does your company have a one size (minimalist) fits all hardware policy? Yes What is the standard configuration of your dev machines? Win XP, 2.66Ghz, 1GB ram, 100GB HD How many monitors do you allow your devs? One, 17" Do your devs have local admin rights? Yes Do you block EVERY blog/forum site on the interweb? No, only some Do you have an open plan (bench) style office layout? Yes, but jumbled
Also we develop in Visual C++ 6.00. Yes, you read that right.
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Your company don't want to invest in new development tools ? It took me one year of nagging to upgrade my Windows XP with "massive" 2GB RAM machine to decent Windows 7 64bit with i7 processor. My old machine used to choke when antivirus update runs. you literally cannot navigate anywhere for at least 5 to 10 minutes every few hours. Now I am trying to get VS2012 . I still have to work with VS2008 which feels so ancient... I recommended them to buy some decent third party tools like Telerik or DevExpress but so far it goes deaf ear. I am at the point where I feel like I need to move on to some better workplace :sad:
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf * Math is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
I just go out and buy the tools myself. Sometimes I even submit the expense and dare them to justify not reimbursing me. After years and years of working for companies that made it seem that you needed CEO approval to buy a box of paperclips, while they gallivanted around the country on the company dime to attend one conference or another, I decided my development lifetime is too limited to submit to their whims. Since I am willing to pay for the tools out of my own pocket without a guarantee of reimbursement, I make the point that I am not a kid in a candy store buying anything that strikes my fancy. If I am willing to risk my own money, I must feel it is necessary. I've had to deal with bean counters who would seem to be telling me, that while that piece of software may save me weeks of development, they still see that they had to pay me for those weeks anyway and now they have to add the cost of the software to their expenses. Productivity does not seem show up on the bottom line. Companies don't seem to be interested in saving time, but if you can save them money, they listen. Several times I've saved the company money by having the tools to get something done so they didn't have to go out and buy a solution from someone else.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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Your company don't want to invest in new development tools ? It took me one year of nagging to upgrade my Windows XP with "massive" 2GB RAM machine to decent Windows 7 64bit with i7 processor. My old machine used to choke when antivirus update runs. you literally cannot navigate anywhere for at least 5 to 10 minutes every few hours. Now I am trying to get VS2012 . I still have to work with VS2008 which feels so ancient... I recommended them to buy some decent third party tools like Telerik or DevExpress but so far it goes deaf ear. I am at the point where I feel like I need to move on to some better workplace :sad:
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf * Math is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
virang_21 wrote:
Your company don't want to invest in new development tools ?
I don't understand the question. I write programs intended to run on target machines. The tools that I need are dependent on those target machines. So are you claiming that everyone in the company is running on a super computer? And that everyone has migrated to .Net 4.5 except you?
virang_21 wrote:
some decent third party tools like Telerik or DevExpress but so far it goes deaf ear.
Because these tools would be a net positive investment for the company? So in terms of initial cost, plus service support, plus licensing versus your salary and your productivity the company would save how much money in a year? In five?
virang_21 wrote:
I am at the point where I feel like I need to move on to some better workplace :sad:
Perhaps. Or perhaps seek a better perspective on what is important in terms of work versus play. As one example would you be happy with VS2012 at a company where your paycheck bounced every single time and/or you had to 'hold' on to your paycheck until the funds 'cleared' at the bank before you could deposit it?
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I work for one... All our devs have i7 QuadCore/8GB/SSD/14"-17" (personal preference) laptops + external monitors / active MSDN subscriptions/local admin rights :) Blogs and forums get unlocked in 2-10 days on request (if it is work related). Should I consider myself lucky? :)
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I never understood locking sites down for devs. You should trust that you hire people that won't waste a bunch of time on non-work stuff. They're professionals. Treat them as such.
Well, it's not that easy... This is not IT company and internet access is monitored/quoted/locked for many reasons. Wasting time is one of least important. And trust me, devs (and other, non-IT profesionals) get deserved level of trust
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Your company don't want to invest in new development tools ? It took me one year of nagging to upgrade my Windows XP with "massive" 2GB RAM machine to decent Windows 7 64bit with i7 processor. My old machine used to choke when antivirus update runs. you literally cannot navigate anywhere for at least 5 to 10 minutes every few hours. Now I am trying to get VS2012 . I still have to work with VS2008 which feels so ancient... I recommended them to buy some decent third party tools like Telerik or DevExpress but so far it goes deaf ear. I am at the point where I feel like I need to move on to some better workplace :sad:
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf * Math is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
software developers have an obligation to quit and move on. it's for the good of the industry and the "brotherhood" of software developers in general. by helping a "low baller" company stay in business like that, you are subsidizing the company at your expense and the expense of the "brotherhood". you are negatively affecting your own career by not keeping up with technology and you are helping to stagnate the economy. if the company can't afford to use reasonable and adequate technology for development - it's likely they have a bad and unsustainable business model anyway. find a better environment where you can develop your skills at a more rapid pace, and then jump ship.
David
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I never understood locking sites down for devs. You should trust that you hire people that won't waste a bunch of time on non-work stuff. They're professionals. Treat them as such.
Greg Bair wrote:
They're professionals
You have to be joking, bunch of whiney little girls!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Does your company have a one size (minimalist) fits all hardware policy? Yes What is the standard configuration of your dev machines? Win XP, 2.66Ghz, 1GB ram, 100GB HD How many monitors do you allow your devs? One, 17" Do your devs have local admin rights? Yes Do you block EVERY blog/forum site on the interweb? No, only some Do you have an open plan (bench) style office layout? Yes, but jumbled
Also we develop in Visual C++ 6.00. Yes, you read that right.
Ok so you deserve to get paid more than I do!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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software developers have an obligation to quit and move on. it's for the good of the industry and the "brotherhood" of software developers in general. by helping a "low baller" company stay in business like that, you are subsidizing the company at your expense and the expense of the "brotherhood". you are negatively affecting your own career by not keeping up with technology and you are helping to stagnate the economy. if the company can't afford to use reasonable and adequate technology for development - it's likely they have a bad and unsustainable business model anyway. find a better environment where you can develop your skills at a more rapid pace, and then jump ship.
David
etkins wrote:
if the company can't afford to use reasonable and adequate technology for development - it's likely they have a bad and unsustainable business model anyway
Nonsense. All mid size and larger companies must deal with the fact that infrastructure investment must continue but that doesn't mean every single thing in the company must be upgraded every single time something new comes out. Companies that do that go out of business, and very likely fail to deliver anything as well. And they also must deal with the fact that their business partners and customers do exactly the same thing. That is why, for example, that companies don't roll out products that support only the newest browser or OS. And why they often roll out products that support browsers\OSes that are no longer even being supported. More over it is often the case that one might need to deal with even very old software. I know for a fact that there are places out there that still run cash register software on Windows 95 (given that I saw the start up screen on Friday night.) It would be surprised if there were not Windows 3.1 apps running out there. Professional developers do not exist to play with toys. They do exist to help a company make money. Given that customer service is often a factor in company delivery then one might be tasked with providing support for something that is very old. And professionals must provide value to the company. For those that think their job should be nothing but a venue for the exploration of the universe then they should stay out of the professional realm and keep puttering around at night in their parents basement.
etkins wrote:
find a better environment where you can develop your skills at a more rapid pace,
Skills such as process control, project management, requirements gathering, architecture and system design perhaps. Real skills. Skills which have a real payback and which do not require the latest toy to be successful in.
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I just go out and buy the tools myself. Sometimes I even submit the expense and dare them to justify not reimbursing me. After years and years of working for companies that made it seem that you needed CEO approval to buy a box of paperclips, while they gallivanted around the country on the company dime to attend one conference or another, I decided my development lifetime is too limited to submit to their whims. Since I am willing to pay for the tools out of my own pocket without a guarantee of reimbursement, I make the point that I am not a kid in a candy store buying anything that strikes my fancy. If I am willing to risk my own money, I must feel it is necessary. I've had to deal with bean counters who would seem to be telling me, that while that piece of software may save me weeks of development, they still see that they had to pay me for those weeks anyway and now they have to add the cost of the software to their expenses. Productivity does not seem show up on the bottom line. Companies don't seem to be interested in saving time, but if you can save them money, they listen. Several times I've saved the company money by having the tools to get something done so they didn't have to go out and buy a solution from someone else.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
BrainiacV wrote:
Since I am willing to pay for the tools out of my own pocket without a guarantee of reimbursement
That did not work for me.. I have license for those products but company doesn't want me to use them. I have it installed on my home machine for my pet projects.
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf * Math is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
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virang_21 wrote:
Your company don't want to invest in new development tools ?
I don't understand the question. I write programs intended to run on target machines. The tools that I need are dependent on those target machines. So are you claiming that everyone in the company is running on a super computer? And that everyone has migrated to .Net 4.5 except you?
virang_21 wrote:
some decent third party tools like Telerik or DevExpress but so far it goes deaf ear.
Because these tools would be a net positive investment for the company? So in terms of initial cost, plus service support, plus licensing versus your salary and your productivity the company would save how much money in a year? In five?
virang_21 wrote:
I am at the point where I feel like I need to move on to some better workplace :sad:
Perhaps. Or perhaps seek a better perspective on what is important in terms of work versus play. As one example would you be happy with VS2012 at a company where your paycheck bounced every single time and/or you had to 'hold' on to your paycheck until the funds 'cleared' at the bank before you could deposit it?
jschell wrote:
So are you claiming that everyone in the company is running on a super computer? And that everyone has migrated to .Net 4.5 except you?
Not really... All I am saying is development machines should be better specked than normal machines just to access some web based applications to run day to day business
jschell wrote:
Because these tools would be a net positive investment for the company?
It will definitely cut down some development time to deliver projects lot faster than otherwise. It will give applications a professional look and feel with more functionality. ( How easily can you do grouping and filtering on normal grid control v/s those third party tools ? .. That is just one example when you talk about value for money...IF company is making millions in profit they should make some investment in new technology... )
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf * Math is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
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jschell wrote:
So are you claiming that everyone in the company is running on a super computer? And that everyone has migrated to .Net 4.5 except you?
Not really... All I am saying is development machines should be better specked than normal machines just to access some web based applications to run day to day business
jschell wrote:
Because these tools would be a net positive investment for the company?
It will definitely cut down some development time to deliver projects lot faster than otherwise. It will give applications a professional look and feel with more functionality. ( How easily can you do grouping and filtering on normal grid control v/s those third party tools ? .. That is just one example when you talk about value for money...IF company is making millions in profit they should make some investment in new technology... )
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf * Math is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
virang_21 wrote:
It will definitely cut down some development time to deliver projects lot faster than otherwise.
So prove that to management.
virang_21 wrote:
It will give applications a professional look and feel with more functionality.
Presuming that is even important in terms of delivery. After all if the point of the app is for in house use it doesn't matter if it looks "professional". And depending on the product that might not matter for the customer market either. However in terms of the customer market then the simple solution is to prove to marketing and sales that it is better then they, not the developer, will be asking for it.
virang_21 wrote:
That is just one example when you talk about value for money...IF company is making millions in profit they should make some investment in new technology...
Pretty sure I already addressed that point in the previous response.
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etkins wrote:
if the company can't afford to use reasonable and adequate technology for development - it's likely they have a bad and unsustainable business model anyway
Nonsense. All mid size and larger companies must deal with the fact that infrastructure investment must continue but that doesn't mean every single thing in the company must be upgraded every single time something new comes out. Companies that do that go out of business, and very likely fail to deliver anything as well. And they also must deal with the fact that their business partners and customers do exactly the same thing. That is why, for example, that companies don't roll out products that support only the newest browser or OS. And why they often roll out products that support browsers\OSes that are no longer even being supported. More over it is often the case that one might need to deal with even very old software. I know for a fact that there are places out there that still run cash register software on Windows 95 (given that I saw the start up screen on Friday night.) It would be surprised if there were not Windows 3.1 apps running out there. Professional developers do not exist to play with toys. They do exist to help a company make money. Given that customer service is often a factor in company delivery then one might be tasked with providing support for something that is very old. And professionals must provide value to the company. For those that think their job should be nothing but a venue for the exploration of the universe then they should stay out of the professional realm and keep puttering around at night in their parents basement.
etkins wrote:
find a better environment where you can develop your skills at a more rapid pace,
Skills such as process control, project management, requirements gathering, architecture and system design perhaps. Real skills. Skills which have a real payback and which do not require the latest toy to be successful in.
Those are fluffy soft skills. I am talking about more difficult technical skills. Seemed to have struck a nerve with you. I have been doing this stuff for over 20 years and I always consider myself a student. There's nothing wrong with using older languages like Ada, Tcl/Tk, because they are still very relevant today. But the developer should be trying to leverage these tools on more cutting edge platforms. Get on the train before it leaves the station and leaves you behind. Companies like IBM buy up really old tool suites and try to maintain them, and that's why they are going down the toilet like a big turd.
~d~