Windows 8.1 - first (and second) impressions anyone?
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Who's on Win8.1 and what do you think about it?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
For me: I don't see difference to Windows 8. If I need tablet, iPAD or Android have a way more better apps and quality of them. As Desktop OS? For me it failed to be good desktop OS. I mainly use Windows for Games, and really looking forward for Valve Linux migration project. Once they have good catalog for Linux OS, I switch to Linux until then Windows 7 works fine, so I don't care about Windows anymore.
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And I need to know this why?
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Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
wrong post opps
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I, personally, have started wearing a tin-foil hat.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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wut? Windows 8 is tablet and desktop. I use windows 8 and have yet to go into the Metro stuff, as simply you don't have to if you don't want to. The only time I use Metro is when I press the start screen, which makes no difference to me as I just end up typing what I want same as I did in Win7. Rumours are just that, rumours. And about the NSA, if you really think that, you need to move away from MS, Google, and other major corporations. No more internet ( or mobile communications for that matter ) for you.
I very rarely use mobile devices because I rarely have need or desire to, indeed I find them irritating but useful in urgent situations. However, I did study programming them in Java ME. I don't use Google cloud-storage services (though I upload some things for clients onto it). I use Yahoo, but only for information I want to be made public anyway. I don't use Facebook or any other social media with any personal account, chiefly because I don't like these services, but now I have another reason. I think you will find that many (especially foreign) companies are beginning to ditch MS and other US IT providers because of the NSA and I am surprised you find this surprising. I am still using Windows XP, because it does everything I want it to do, but will probably switch to Linux, though an upgrade to Windows 7 may be used for some business apps.
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8.1 is an upgrade to 8 it's the newest OS - your argument is flawed.
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Oh, one other big one... Visual Studio 2013 RC is not compatible with Windows 8. How do you like that? Brand new development environment can't even run on the newest OS. Also see my comment further down about Windows 8 removing support for DVD playback.
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8.1 so far is not a full release and to complain about bugs is well stupid considering it's not a full release. The control panel - Start menu - Type control Panel - Start menu - All programs - Windows System - Explorer - This PC - Computer menu - Control panel icon If you can't find something in 8.1 - type it in the start menu.
I'm not sure if you understand how Microsoft releases software. First, once a version hits RC (release candidate) its a feature freeze. RC (or what they call "Preview" now) is given out to the public so that they can get bug and security reports, those are fixed before public release, but no new features are added. Next, once a version is ready for public release, it is given to MSDN subscribers first, usually about 30 days prior to general public release. I have an MSDN subscription and have been running 8.1 preview since it came out, and 8.1 release since it was available. So yes, 8.1 is full release and I didn't say anything about the system being buggy. I'm simply complaining that the UI choices MS made on Windows 8 do not fit with what I consider to be good choices for a full sized desktop system or even laptops bigger than netbooks. Not sure why you want to tell everybody they are wrong, you won't find me going into the posts where people said it was the best thing ever and telling them they are wrong... Arguing for arguments sake maybe?
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For me: I don't see difference to Windows 8. If I need tablet, iPAD or Android have a way more better apps and quality of them. As Desktop OS? For me it failed to be good desktop OS. I mainly use Windows for Games, and really looking forward for Valve Linux migration project. Once they have good catalog for Linux OS, I switch to Linux until then Windows 7 works fine, so I don't care about Windows anymore.
I agree. There are only three reasons I know keep a PC - PowerPoint (Libre Office is not satisfactorily compatible), Visual Studio (though I hear it or an equivalent can run on linux?) and games. Even VS I use less these days. I look forward to the Valve Linux project too. I do have server space which runs MS server and ASP.NET, but I am finding little use for it so far, since JS, HTML 5 and PHP seem better suited to my needs. I can certainly see the attraction of MS technologies, but they are not really catering for people like myself. I am almost ready to ditch MS altogether (and I shall not be turning to Apple either). I will probably keep a Windows & desktop / boot option for a while though.
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Are you saying it's not compatible with 8.1? I running VS 2013 RC on Windows 8 with no problem.
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I very rarely use mobile devices because I rarely have need or desire to, indeed I find them irritating but useful in urgent situations. However, I did study programming them in Java ME. I don't use Google cloud-storage services (though I upload some things for clients onto it). I use Yahoo, but only for information I want to be made public anyway. I don't use Facebook or any other social media with any personal account, chiefly because I don't like these services, but now I have another reason. I think you will find that many (especially foreign) companies are beginning to ditch MS and other US IT providers because of the NSA and I am surprised you find this surprising. I am still using Windows XP, because it does everything I want it to do, but will probably switch to Linux, though an upgrade to Windows 7 may be used for some business apps.
Microsoft is a will be for the forseable future the only choice for company wide solutions. There is no escaping it, at least for now. As I mainly develop company solutions and not personal applications (did it once or twice for fun only), I just really don't care much for the NSA stuff as I don't live on the US and my personal stance on the subject is, if you think it's personal, it' shouldn't be online in the first place. I use windows 8, and have a windows 8 phone, have an hotmail account ( you kind of have to really to use those ), i have a facebook account also, use skyDrive and google drive. The thing is, I do it responsibly. My facebook account has very limited visibility, 1 picture and very limited personal info on it. SkyDrive and Google Drive are used to store work stuff and some personal items, but for availability only. Private stuff is kept private, off web. That's why it's called private. I get why people got upset with all that NSA stuff, but as a non american it doesn't concern my in the slightest. Privacy can only work if you think private. Edit: To really answer you, I'm not surprised people are getting wary about some US companies due to this NSA stuff, but these are the same people whowill happily share on facebook a gazilion photos of their newborn child, sometimes even only partly clothed, where they are going and doing every hour, and then act surprised when predators and sex offenders use that same info in a bad way.
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The move to forcing you to sign into apps has been creeping in a bit and I totally understand their intention, but please don't force us to use a Live login. The start menu: yes, I heard and saw the band-aid approach. Kinda pointless, but there are plenty of start menu apps to fix this. The full screen (or half, 2/3 screen) is also a killer for me. I run a 27" monitor. Full screen? I think not. I live in hope there's a killer feature that someone will mention that will make it all good again.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I hear ya. I find it very frustrating that in the Windows and OSX world, OS == UI. There is no reason for them to be coupled. Yes, there are many start menu workarounds, but it's unreasonable for users, especially in the enterprise to change everything because someone made an arbitrary decision. I so sick of Mac fanboys lining up every time OSX's version is incremented by 0.001 and given a new hat. The thing is, I really liked the Windows 2000 UI and it had a reliable and small kernel to boot. Other than driver and security updates, it was all the OS I need for a desktop. (PS: On modern hardware, Win2K starts up in less time on a magnetic drive than Win8 does on SSD. Those of us from Un*x land don't face this and I don't think I've ever said, "I wish that this particular UI was the only one available and that I can't change it until someone at Unix Inc. decides I need a new one and then I'll cope". You pick your OS (FreeBSD for me) and you pick your UI from hundreds available. I use Windows 8 because I need it to build Windows Store and Windows Phone apps. Hell, I actually like it on my Surface Pro. You could install Windows NT from a stack of floppies. Win2K fully installed was what, 300MB? What on earth is filling 20GB of space on a clean Win8 installation, and how is this considered progress? I really hope ReactOS goes somewhere. It's an open-source OS that is binary-compatible with Windows. #GetOffMyLawn
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Microsoft is a will be for the forseable future the only choice for company wide solutions. There is no escaping it, at least for now. As I mainly develop company solutions and not personal applications (did it once or twice for fun only), I just really don't care much for the NSA stuff as I don't live on the US and my personal stance on the subject is, if you think it's personal, it' shouldn't be online in the first place. I use windows 8, and have a windows 8 phone, have an hotmail account ( you kind of have to really to use those ), i have a facebook account also, use skyDrive and google drive. The thing is, I do it responsibly. My facebook account has very limited visibility, 1 picture and very limited personal info on it. SkyDrive and Google Drive are used to store work stuff and some personal items, but for availability only. Private stuff is kept private, off web. That's why it's called private. I get why people got upset with all that NSA stuff, but as a non american it doesn't concern my in the slightest. Privacy can only work if you think private. Edit: To really answer you, I'm not surprised people are getting wary about some US companies due to this NSA stuff, but these are the same people whowill happily share on facebook a gazilion photos of their newborn child, sometimes even only partly clothed, where they are going and doing every hour, and then act surprised when predators and sex offenders use that same info in a bad way.
That's all fair enough and I also follow many of your guidelines and keep private things offline. The trouble is, with the NSA (and GCHQ for that matter, they are just as bad) spying on European ministers the EU is starting to seek alternatives to MS. Considering also the US Government's history of 'aggressive economics' if I was running a big foreign company I would distinctly distrust US IT services since the door is open for company secrets to be siphoned off and delivered to US corporations.
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2010/2012 works just fine, when I went to install 2013 it told me that VS was not compatible with that version of Windows...
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I'm on 8.1 and have some issues. First is that my browser seems to lock up, a lot. I can't restart the normal way so I have to do a hard reset. Second is every time my computer starts, I get a "Could not initialize BTStack" or something to that effect. Apparently this is an issue with the blue tooth stack. Third, start button, yeah its there, but it's like a tease. I want my start menu back. Fourth, I use my computer for things other than stuff that should be full screen, I hate working full screen. I have to jump through hoops to use my computer like a normal computer. The control panel is hard to get to. It forced me to use my MSN account for logging on otherwise it wouldn't let me download from the store (it changed to this in 8.1). I really can't stand it, and just don't have the time to downgrade to 7, luckily 8 is only on my portable dev machine that I only use in the field. 7 is on my main dev machine and I enjoy it 100 times better than 8. I can't stand the Metro UI, live tiles, etc on my computer. Tablet sure, computer no.
Ron Beyer wrote:
I use my computer for things other than stuff that should be full screen, I hate working full screen. I have to jump through hoops to use my computer like a normal computer.
There's absolutely no reason that you can't use your computer in exactly the same way as you did in Windows 7. If you don't like the full-screen "Windows 8 apps", don't use them. The entire time I've been on Windows 8, the only "Windows 8 apps" I've used at all are Remote Desktop (because I always used the old one full-screen; though you can still use the old desktop version if you don't like the new one), eBay (because it's often faster than their web site), TeamViewer (same note as Remote Desktop), and some games. This was true about Windows 8 and it still true about Windows 8.1. My daily workflow includes only the traditional desktop apps, Chrome, Notepad++, PuTTY, Visual Studio, and SmartGit, all of which work exactly the same as they did under Windows 7. What exactly are these "hoops" you have to jump through?
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That's all fair enough and I also follow many of your guidelines and keep private things offline. The trouble is, with the NSA (and GCHQ for that matter, they are just as bad) spying on European ministers the EU is starting to seek alternatives to MS. Considering also the US Government's history of 'aggressive economics' if I was running a big foreign company I would distinctly distrust US IT services since the door is open for company secrets to be siphoned off and delivered to US corporations.
True, but you really can't escape some services. Because just for the OS, you have no choice but to go Microsoft, if you want to use the business standard applications. What you can, and some companies do, is take control of some of those services for themselves (using their own email servers and such), or use another similar service from another company. And even if the UK and US assorted agencies really want to spy on communications, like phone lines or even cellphone communications, you really don't have a choice or workaround, no matter how much you don't trust them.
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Ron Beyer wrote:
I use my computer for things other than stuff that should be full screen, I hate working full screen. I have to jump through hoops to use my computer like a normal computer.
There's absolutely no reason that you can't use your computer in exactly the same way as you did in Windows 7. If you don't like the full-screen "Windows 8 apps", don't use them. The entire time I've been on Windows 8, the only "Windows 8 apps" I've used at all are Remote Desktop (because I always used the old one full-screen; though you can still use the old desktop version if you don't like the new one), eBay (because it's often faster than their web site), TeamViewer (same note as Remote Desktop), and some games. This was true about Windows 8 and it still true about Windows 8.1. My daily workflow includes only the traditional desktop apps, Chrome, Notepad++, PuTTY, Visual Studio, and SmartGit, all of which work exactly the same as they did under Windows 7. What exactly are these "hoops" you have to jump through?
The annoying way Windows thinks I want to dock my windows when I get them near an edge... The BlueTooth stack not operating correctly (BTStack Not Initialized) everytime I start up. Having to purchase a start menu (I tried the free one, wasn't as good as StartX) Having to use a Live log-in on the computer. Not logging into the desktop by default (although this is fixed in 8.1). The difficulty in finding anything in the start menu (yes, I could type, but I should also be able to get to it by mouse, it just adds time). I wouldn't find 8 so annoying if they gave me an option to make it like a desktop or a tablet, but they are forcing me into using my computer like a giant hand-held device and I'm not enjoying it. Like Chris, I have 2 giant monitors and the docking thing drives me insane on my laptop, much less if I put it on my desktop.
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Ok, since you want to get into semantics, VS 2013 will not run on Windows 8, or Windows 8.1. When installing it says something to the effect that "This operating system is not supported by this version of Visual Studio".
I am running vs 2013 on windows 8.1
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True, but you really can't escape some services. Because just for the OS, you have no choice but to go Microsoft, if you want to use the business standard applications. What you can, and some companies do, is take control of some of those services for themselves (using their own email servers and such), or use another similar service from another company. And even if the UK and US assorted agencies really want to spy on communications, like phone lines or even cellphone communications, you really don't have a choice or workaround, no matter how much you don't trust them.
Yes, I can understand that to use and produce applications for big business often necessitates the use of MS technologies. I think, first of all, that it is better to give the NSA as little information as possible and to make it as hard for them as possible, and second that as the movement away from US IT gathers momentum, which I am sure it will, more suitable non-MS apps will become available. However, many companies are tied to MS Server and .NET and although I hear of people coding .NET on other platforms I am not convinced that it is all that easy to do so. Cross-platform compatibility was originally a big sale's pitch for .NET (I was one of the first cohorts to study for the MCP 70-316 C# exam, though I never bothered to take the exam in the end) but I don't know how well it has met that objective. I am fortunate in being able to pick and choose, as I work largely for myself, though I scarcely have the time to begin coding in .NET on Linux. I hear it has been done, but such a transition seems like a significant obstacle to me. I did trial some VS alternatives as well, but I simply have not had the time to follow this up, though one was promising. I have used exclusively JS/HTML 5 and PHP for the past few months, which are good but not entirely satisfactory and I am still looking for my ideal development language and framework. I have yet to find it and similarly I have yet to find a satisfactory OS (now that Windows XP, my fav, is phasing out). I feel dissatisfied with the software industry.
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I'm not sure if you understand how Microsoft releases software. First, once a version hits RC (release candidate) its a feature freeze. RC (or what they call "Preview" now) is given out to the public so that they can get bug and security reports, those are fixed before public release, but no new features are added. Next, once a version is ready for public release, it is given to MSDN subscribers first, usually about 30 days prior to general public release. I have an MSDN subscription and have been running 8.1 preview since it came out, and 8.1 release since it was available. So yes, 8.1 is full release and I didn't say anything about the system being buggy. I'm simply complaining that the UI choices MS made on Windows 8 do not fit with what I consider to be good choices for a full sized desktop system or even laptops bigger than netbooks. Not sure why you want to tell everybody they are wrong, you won't find me going into the posts where people said it was the best thing ever and telling them they are wrong... Arguing for arguments sake maybe?
From the Microsoft website: Windows 8.1 Preview and Windows RT 8.1 Preview are pre-release versions of Windows 8.1. It is not the full release period.
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Who's on Win8.1 and what do you think about it?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I test it on a virtual machine, but so far it's just an improvement over Windows 8, so my opinion of it, it's that's good.
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