Your company pays attention to you when...

Le centriste

My boss do this for every programmer in the company, if they want too. Very cool.

Stephane Rodriguez

For my personal info, are you a Microsoft shop ?

Paul Watson

.S.Rod. wrote: Your boss pays you a .NET MCSD certification[^]. Cool. But isn't this standard for most companies? We are very happy to help employees get qualifications and pay for them. As incentive though is if you fail an exam then you pay us back the cost. Also get bound to the company more as we have now invested in you and don't want you running off. So what MCSD track are you going for?

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Want a job?

KaRl

Paul Watson wrote: Cool. But isn't this standard for most companies? Mine is probably not a standard one :((

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Chris Austin

Paul Watson wrote: Also get bound to the company more as we have now invested in you and don't want you running off. How are you further bound to the company? Are the people required to sign some type of contract stipulating they wont quit or move on to greener pastures? Just curious, since I have never found a company that I like enough to not have the option to get up and leave when I find something more interesting or if the job gets stale. In fact I have an interview today with a company that may let me do some new things. The word abbreviation is awfully long for what it means.

Stephane Rodriguez

Paul Watson wrote: But isn't this standard for most companies? Never heard of that being a standard, at least in France. Software developers are expected to have fun with MSDN library, and that's pretty much all about it. Paul Watson wrote: Also get bound to the company more as we have now invested in you and don't want you running off. The only boss who suggested such training told me that it was all free for me. The footnote was that I had to pay back all of it the day I resign. No need to say the discussion didn't go very far. Paul Watson wrote: So what MCSD track are you going for? None. :(( Neither now (40), neither the former (2000+ people).

Paul Watson

Chris Austin wrote: Just curious, since I have never found a company that I like enough to not have the option to get up and leave when I find something more interesting or if the job gets stale The cororolarly (god what a horrible word to spell) being that we would not keep someone on not 100% committed to Bluegrass and it's future. No foul meant but we would not give out training to that sort :) Chris Austin wrote: How are you further bound to the company? Are the people required to sign some type of contract stipulating they wont quit or move on to greener pastures? Normally a contractual obligation for X amount of months. Also with a cash-out clause because we don't want to bind anyone to us because that just causes trouble. Don't want anyone working for us that is being forced to. End of the day though we use good faith. Screw us over and you won't get any help from us or any favours. Considering the current job markets it is not a good idea to leave a company in bad faith :)

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Want a job?

Chris Austin

.S.Rod. wrote: Neither now (40), neither the former (2000+ people). Wow! Was that the attrition at you company? If so, that is sad....it is awfull to see you comrades in arms being sent packing. The word abbreviation is awfully long for what it means.

benjymous

I'd imagine it's more the other way - management will remember they've spent budget training you up so you won't be the first against the wall when the revolution comes -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!

Chris Austin

Paul Watson wrote: The cororolarly (god what a horrible word to spell) being that we would not keep someone on not 100% committed to Bluegrass and it's future. My problem has always been the other side of the equation, I wouldn't want to commit a lifetime to a company that isn't 100% committed to my future. I find it almost obtuse that companies can try to hold employees with training and feelings of dedication, yet can simply toss them aside when things are no longer good for the company. No insult intended toward you either Paul, in fact if you have found that company that has your professional development truly in mind I am most assuredly and insanely jealous. The word abbreviation is awfully long for what it means.

Stephane Rodriguez

No, I jump the wagon any time innovation is being stiffled by corporate greed. I have landed to one down with 40 people. The sad thing is when a company makes money, but doesn't allow any budget for the technical staff (QA, ...). Not providing training is like telling you to do your job without giving the tools for. And, as someone else said, training not only improves retention and trust, it also lets the company boast with such logo on their website and with their partners (telling them how good we are at it). It's even outlaw in France since an amount of days of training per year is in all full-time contracts.

Chris Austin

.S.Rod. wrote: It's even outlaw in France since an amount of days of training per year is in all full-time contracts. That's nice. A company I worked for years ago required 80 hours of training a year, it was pretty good and broke up the the year nicely. Have you had any experience with the MCSP courses? I took one years ago and was disappointed. The class had students with little or no programming experience as well as seasoned professionals but, the instructor taught toward the less experienced ones level. I hope this was unique toward the training company my employer used since, I am considering taking some more courses. The word abbreviation is awfully long for what it means.

ColinDavies

Paul, on both sides of the equation I have found the best way to retain key staff is to make sure that a better environment cannot be found elsewhere. As an employee the best way to keep your job is "to go the extra mile" occasionally as the expression is. Also contracts are only worth as much as the time and money you are prepared to enforce them also. (BTW: In NZ our employment contracts are massive) Regardz Colin J Davies

Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign' Rob Manderson wrote:

Le centriste

Yes, we are a gold partner, but we have to pay for certification, though.

DFU23

My company makes us sign an agreement for any training that we get (that the company pays for) that basically states: If you leave the company less than 6 months after the training you owe them the full cost of the training. 6 - 9 months: Half the price. 9 - 12 months: A third. After a year you have supposedly paid them back in full for the money they have spent on you. It's cool with me because I can understand that they don't want people to abuse the training and then just run off to a new company afterwards .... What kills me is that my company has sent me off for training that I have never used in return for them. A waste of my time and their money. :wtf:

Wally Atkins
Newport News, VA, USA

Paul Watson

Colin Davies wrote: Paul, on both sides of the equation I have found the best way to retain key staff is to make sure that a better environment cannot be found elsewhere. As an employee the best way to keep your job is "to go the extra mile" occasionally as the expression is. Thing is the company has a vision. The vision is X and the people we hire need to believe in that vision and be 100% committed to it. If they aren't then it is bad for both the company and that employee. Nobody wants to work in a company they do not believe in and no company wants an employee that does not believe in it. So it is best for both parties to part ways amicably. The environment is then tailored towards obtaining that vision. If an employee is committed to that vision, then the environment will suite them and they will be happy. As much as I protect my guys, bend over backwards to make them happy and generally cater for their needs a company is more than the sum of them. Colin Davies wrote: Also contracts are only worth as much as the time and money you are prepared to enforce them also. Indeed, time, money and emotion. The contract is really there only if the shit hits the fan, something we never want to happen but you know people better than I and so know that eventually it will no matter how wonderful you are. 99.999% of the time everything is amicable, people join and leave without any problems. Someone is not doing their job, we talk to them and come to an arrangement which is fair. But my boss is not one to be pushed. He will fight down to the last sylable of a principle. In some cases it is weakness because the better thing for the company would be to just let it go. But it also sets a standpoint that everyone knows about and they had better be 100% sure they are on the Good Side before they cause trouble. This is reality. Shit will happen.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Want a job?