Development Tools
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I agree with Rob.... but VS.Net changes all of that (well some at least). I was at a Microsoft .Net training class and they demonstrated a VB.Net multithreaded application. Plus the speed of the VB.Net app and a C# app are going to be about the same since it compiles down to the same IL code. This will put all of the VB programmers out there on a level of performance with C++/C#. Not sure if I like that, but it looks like it will happen. Steve Maier, MCSD
It will run at the same speed if you are developping a .Net application in C++, but I don't think it will run as fast as a C++ application which uses the native Win32 API and not the .NET framework... Furthermore:
- Moving to the .Net framework limits a lot what you can do when you compare with what you can do with the native API
- when speed is required (for exemple for intensive processing), it's still possible in a "C++" .Net application, to write unmanaged code. VB and C# developers don't have this choice.
Serge
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I am with you on that one. I can develop UI code in VC++ as fast as a typical VB developer can. I do all my UI development with MFC, and ATL for controls. Gaul http://www.gaulles.com
I agree with you, but why then the companies prefer VB? I'm sure that with VC you can write better apps!! bye
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Which languages/tools do your company use? Here in Italy almost everyone use VB:(( because it's easy to use, easy to learn and the development time is short. I prefer C++ but I must use VB if I want to work. Is the same in other countries? I think that C++ needs more time to write application but on the long term it reduce the time to mantain the application. What do you think? bye.
I Agree with You. In my Country Argentina, the companys prefer to use VB and not VC++. One of the reason is because in the country has a lot of programers in VB and this make that the cost per hour is low, (more ofer, more cheper). I prefer VC++, I hate VB. Now in USA some companys prefer to use VB only for Internal development. I am returning to Argentina I hope to be able to work there in VC. bye Carlos Antollini.
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I am with you on that one. I can develop UI code in VC++ as fast as a typical VB developer can. I do all my UI development with MFC, and ATL for controls. Gaul http://www.gaulles.com
Wow, there is no way I can match (straight) UI development in VB with VC++. In VB, I measured my output at 22 debugged lines/hour. In VC++, I am lucky to get half that. But as our original post said, my VC++ code is a lot more maintainable. Question, the last time I used VB was at version 3. Are you able to encapsulate things any better, or is it still "global data everywhere" to pass data between forms?
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Which languages/tools do your company use? Here in Italy almost everyone use VB:(( because it's easy to use, easy to learn and the development time is short. I prefer C++ but I must use VB if I want to work. Is the same in other countries? I think that C++ needs more time to write application but on the long term it reduce the time to mantain the application. What do you think? bye.
I use VB for internal development. However, at home and for stuff I write that's going to be distributed (free or not) I prefer and use VC++. I got a question though for everyone that says than can do UI development faster in VC but like a VB app, can you please give me information where I can find out more about this? I once turned an app to VB because I did not know how to make large buttons, with big fonts, and different colors (writing an internal touch screen program) in VC++ :-( I hated writing that app and felt like I was using a giant "MACRO" language! Any particular portion of MSDN or topics you can turn me too, to override those controls and make the application UI look and develop like in VB. Sam C ---- Systems Manager Hospitality Marketing Associates
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Which languages/tools do your company use? Here in Italy almost everyone use VB:(( because it's easy to use, easy to learn and the development time is short. I prefer C++ but I must use VB if I want to work. Is the same in other countries? I think that C++ needs more time to write application but on the long term it reduce the time to mantain the application. What do you think? bye.
Here in Mèxico lot`s of people preffer using Visual Basic over Viscual C++ but not me. The people who use it preffer it because they can make an app in about the half time that it would take in C++. I Preffer VC++ Because it`s fast. So I preffer to take that other half in development time rather than to leave it to my end user for everytime he launches my app.:)
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It will run at the same speed if you are developping a .Net application in C++, but I don't think it will run as fast as a C++ application which uses the native Win32 API and not the .NET framework... Furthermore:
- Moving to the .Net framework limits a lot what you can do when you compare with what you can do with the native API
- when speed is required (for exemple for intensive processing), it's still possible in a "C++" .Net application, to write unmanaged code. VB and C# developers don't have this choice.
Serge
when speed is required (for exemple for intensive processing), it's still possible in a "C++" .Net application, to write unmanaged code. VB and C# developers don't have this choice. C# has the
unsafekeyword that turns off a lot of the checks doen in managed code. Remember that C# and VB are all compiled to native in the end. It's going to be interesting doing some time trials on C# vs C++ when the final release is out. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject Admin) -
I might be going out on a limb here - but I think I can develop UI code in vc++ every bit as fast as a VB developer can. What vc++ lets me do is the stuff that VB can't do. Multithreading - callbacks etc. Once you've learned the basics of MFC you can duplicate (and exceed) VB's RAD capabilities... Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net
I agree wholeheartedly - the whole VB RAD thing is wildly overrated unless you're using COM for the back end, then I can see that VB gets them up faster, although not by a huge amount. I'd still say that I'd prefer to use VC and have more flexibility in what my controls do without having to play with ActiveX. Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" The careful application of terror is also a form of communication. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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when speed is required (for exemple for intensive processing), it's still possible in a "C++" .Net application, to write unmanaged code. VB and C# developers don't have this choice. C# has the
unsafekeyword that turns off a lot of the checks doen in managed code. Remember that C# and VB are all compiled to native in the end. It's going to be interesting doing some time trials on C# vs C++ when the final release is out. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject Admin)Bwhaahahahahaha - keyword unsafe ??? That ROCKS !!! Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" The careful application of terror is also a form of communication. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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I agree with you, but why then the companies prefer VB? I'm sure that with VC you can write better apps!! bye
Because VB is great for stupid people. You can do less damage in a pointerless language ( you can do less of EVERYTHING, but that's not the point ), and so it's quick to train people and let them loose on the code. Even M$ sell C# on the basis that C++ is 'too hard' and VB 'too limited'. Of COURSE they told us VB was super fast to use, it's the only possible thing it could have going for it. Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" The careful application of terror is also a form of communication. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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Bwhaahahahahaha - keyword unsafe ??? That ROCKS !!! Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" The careful application of terror is also a form of communication. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
But I still can't figure out why they pulled keyword
buggy. :confused: cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject Admin) -
when speed is required (for exemple for intensive processing), it's still possible in a "C++" .Net application, to write unmanaged code. VB and C# developers don't have this choice. C# has the
unsafekeyword that turns off a lot of the checks doen in managed code. Remember that C# and VB are all compiled to native in the end. It's going to be interesting doing some time trials on C# vs C++ when the final release is out. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject Admin)Remember that C# and VB are all compiled to native in the end. MS's technology looks very close to Java's JIT compiler (they were in fact the first to release a JIT compiler for Java, if I remember well):
- first, the code is transformed into Java bytecode
- when the program is run, the first time a piece of code is executed, it is tranformed into native code
From my experience, the difference of speed between native applications and Java applications is more than just a small difference. C# has the unsafe keyword that turns off a lot of the checks doen in managed code. My choice of the word "unsafe" was "unsafe". What I meant, it's that with C++, we can still write "native" Dlls that can be called from the .Net runtime. Serge
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Malta? I have been there two times on vacation. I really like it: agreeable climate, warm Mediterranean, and very hospitable people. The only thing I missed was a beach (Ok, Golden Bay, but I stayed in St. Juliens resp. Sliema). Maybe I should get employed there, the more as you mentioned C++ :-D Regards, Thomas
Disclaimer:
Because of heavy processing requirements, we are currently using some of your unused brain capacity for backup processing. Please ignore any hallucinations, voices or unusual dreams you may experience. Please avoid concentration-intensive tasks until further notice. Thank you.Yeah, cool! Next time you visit send me a mail so maybe we could meet up. You are never going to run out of beaches here, but I agree, the ones in St. Julians suck. Golden Bay is my favourite sandy beach right now, but on the weekends it gets too packed, so I go to some more secluded bays... I can definately find you a job in C++ since there is a high demand. The work permit might be a hassle though.... :cool: (2b || !2b)
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Yeah, cool! Next time you visit send me a mail so maybe we could meet up. You are never going to run out of beaches here, but I agree, the ones in St. Julians suck. Golden Bay is my favourite sandy beach right now, but on the weekends it gets too packed, so I go to some more secluded bays... I can definately find you a job in C++ since there is a high demand. The work permit might be a hassle though.... :cool: (2b || !2b)
Cool?? It’s cool to live in Malta!!! I’d love to live near the sea. I’m Italian and I’m seriousoly thinking about go away to work. And why not Malta? You say that there is a high demand of developers. Is that true? And what about the foreign workers? Are they good looking? Does they need some special document? Which companies are in Malta? I’ll try to search somenthing on JobPilot. Byebye! Greetings to the sea! :-)
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Cool?? It’s cool to live in Malta!!! I’d love to live near the sea. I’m Italian and I’m seriousoly thinking about go away to work. And why not Malta? You say that there is a high demand of developers. Is that true? And what about the foreign workers? Are they good looking? Does they need some special document? Which companies are in Malta? I’ll try to search somenthing on JobPilot. Byebye! Greetings to the sea! :-)
Yep, Malta is a cool place to live - especially in the summer!!! Right now there are thousands of swedish/french/italian/german/swiss/dutch young (15-21yrs) students who come down to study English. There is an English language school right next to my apartment, and the first thing I see in the morning are 300+ cute asses... and they go to school in their bikinis and sarongs, ready for the beach after classes, its bliss. Winters are a little quiter though, which is good since we get an overdose of tourists and we all need the break. Working here is not as cool though. Wages are typically lower than the rest of the world and the cost of living is high. Property is very expensive too. The summer heat can also get to you, especially if you don't have an airconditioner. There is a high demand for developers, but its hard to get a work permit here unless you've got some Maltese blood, are married to a Maltese or you've got the skills which no other Maltese have. Italy is a lovely place, and very close to Malta too, so I suggest you come take a look before committing yourself. I can get you in contact with a few people if you are interested though. Back to work now... I am still trying to wake up. I met a pretty girl from Oregon, USA last night... did not get home till 4am! I'm wasted... X| (2b || !2b)
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Yep, Malta is a cool place to live - especially in the summer!!! Right now there are thousands of swedish/french/italian/german/swiss/dutch young (15-21yrs) students who come down to study English. There is an English language school right next to my apartment, and the first thing I see in the morning are 300+ cute asses... and they go to school in their bikinis and sarongs, ready for the beach after classes, its bliss. Winters are a little quiter though, which is good since we get an overdose of tourists and we all need the break. Working here is not as cool though. Wages are typically lower than the rest of the world and the cost of living is high. Property is very expensive too. The summer heat can also get to you, especially if you don't have an airconditioner. There is a high demand for developers, but its hard to get a work permit here unless you've got some Maltese blood, are married to a Maltese or you've got the skills which no other Maltese have. Italy is a lovely place, and very close to Malta too, so I suggest you come take a look before committing yourself. I can get you in contact with a few people if you are interested though. Back to work now... I am still trying to wake up. I met a pretty girl from Oregon, USA last night... did not get home till 4am! I'm wasted... X| (2b || !2b)
I know. I don't have a clear idea of what to do. I'd like to work in an english spoken country, but england is so wet!!! Maybe on day..... Thanks for the info. byebye.