My last day at this job is tomorrow
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
Sounds like a lousy job. So often there is antagonism and emnity. But when I lost a job with an engineering company due to the downturn in 2009, they paid me five months salary and still sent me home the same day. It was in Weymouth. I spent the next few months in seaside pubs eating lunches, drinking bitter and doing telephone interviews. Thing is, they were contracted to give me 3 months anyway, plus redundancy, plus they awarded a 'cooperation bonus' when I didn't complain. If you have no contract stating two weeks notice, then put it down to experience. And ask up-front next time.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
when he hands in his notice he becomes a liability
But isn't he always? If he hasn't handed in his notice yet, all you know is that he hasn't handed in his notice just yet, but he might do so at any moment.
You could think of it that way! But in practice it's different: when someone has handed in his notice he shows he has no further interest in the future of the company: his thoughts are focus on the new companies success instead. So all his future actions are suspect as there is no leverage the company can apply even if he comes in wearing just swimming trunks and perches on the MD's desk all day blowing kisses! :laugh:
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers --- Serious Sam
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You could think of it that way! But in practice it's different: when someone has handed in his notice he shows he has no further interest in the future of the company: his thoughts are focus on the new companies success instead. So all his future actions are suspect as there is no leverage the company can apply even if he comes in wearing just swimming trunks and perches on the MD's desk all day blowing kisses! :laugh:
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers --- Serious Sam
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OriginalGriff wrote:
he comes in wearing just swimming trunks and perches on the MD's desk all day blowing kisses
Please tell me that's a true story :)
No, not as far as I know. But one ex-colleague did bring a sleeping bag and curl up under his desk all day.
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers --- Serious Sam
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OriginalGriff wrote:
he comes in wearing just swimming trunks and perches on the MD's desk all day blowing kisses
Please tell me that's a true story :)
True story: One summer when it was extremely hot, one of my colleagues recevied a written note from our department head, declaring (quoted from memory, this is 20+ years ago, but the meaning is preserved): "It is marginally acceptable to come to work wearing nothing but swimming trunks and a T-shirt. It is NOT acceptable to come to work in a T-shirt so long that there can be doubts whether you are actually wearing swimming trunks or not." (My colleague didn't even wear his wristwatch that day, and he walked barefoot. He did wear swimming trunks under his T-shirt, but nothing else. It was his way to protest against the poor office ventilation - his office was at the sunny side of the building (mine was opposite, so I could wear 'normal' clothes.)
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Ok. Let me start over. This isn't about contracts. It's customary to give two weeks notice at your place of employment. Further, a company will deem you as 'rehirable' if you give two weeks. The reason this is important is future companies may call asking if I am 'rehirable', which can influence another company's hiring decision. I work in a state where companies may fire you for any reason (accept illegal reasons like race, etc.), and I may quit for any reason.
I don't know how regulations work in US, but back here in Brazil, if something similiar happened (here it is 30 day notice) and they didn't want you to stay for the notice period, they would either have to fire you and pay all applicable fines of firing someone, including the 30 day notice payment or they would just ask you to stay home and pay you as you were working during that period.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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A lot of companies do that with important positions: when you hand in your notice, that is the last time you will be on the premises, if only to reduce the damage you could do to the company from that time on. Think about a sales droid: when he hands in his notice he becomes a liability to the company and can't meet customers as their representative. With development it's less common (certainly in the UK) partly because most companies don't feel that development is (1) important, or (2) a role from which you could do any damage. We both know that that's horse apples: but then the people who make these decisions aren't technical. However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences (which should be listed in your employment contract), any more than you can leave tomorrow without them getting upset and doing whatever they can to get back at you - probably via any wages you would be owed. Yes - contact the new company and say "they have released me early: I can start Monday if thats good for you" but it's worth reminding the old company of their side of the bargain and see if you can get some money out of them up to at least the end of the notice period as well. I know one friend of mine who had a 8 weeks notice in his contract, but was let go when he handed in his notice on the Friday. Monday, he started the new job, collected dual wages for two months and used the company car from the old company until the new company car arrived! :laugh:
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers --- Serious Sam
OriginalGriff wrote:
However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences
It works exactly the same way back here in Brazil, I wonder if there are regulations that protect the employee in US.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
That's an unusual and unpleasant parting. In the cases I've seen, a company will tell an employee who's given his two-week notice to "get out today" only if:
- There's bad blood between management and the employee, or:
- Management fears some sort of wrongdoing, whether the departing employee is motivated by profit or by vindictiveness.
Defense contractors will sometimes decree "get out today" for security reasons, but in such cases they usually pay the employee the two weeks' salary he would have earned.
If none of the above applies, then it's likely to be pique on the part of some higher-up -- basically "hurt feelings" over the employee's decision to move on. Managers are human and can be as petty as anyone else.
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
They can ask you not to come in, but they're still contractually and legally (there are minimum notice periods enforced in law for employment contracts) obliged to pay you for that time unless you explicitly agree to early termination. That's what 'gardening leave' is all about. The only time this isn't true is if you get fired for breach of contract. You should have taken them to court, it would have been an open and shut case and it sounds like you didn't have many bridges left to burn anyway. Edit: assuming you have a contract, or live in a country where full time jobs have a level of minimum protection. But you're doing professional office based work, surely you have an employment contract ...
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
A lot depends on your local labor laws. However… I’d ignore all that & protect yourself the same way you protect yourself from getting hit while driving. You can’t! We live in a world where the ability to hurt others far outstrips the ability to protect ourselves, or be protected. Basically: you can’t stop somebody else from being a jerk. However all isn’t lost. This problem has already been solved by smart business practices, namely savings. Get enough cash in the bank to pay one month’s worth of bills, then two, then six, etc… You’ll sleep much better at night knowing you/your family’s will be ok if you lose your job (for any reason), get sick, get put in jail, or get kidnapped by aliens.
- great coders make code look easy - When humans are doing things computers could be doing instead, the computers get together late at night and laugh at us. - ¿Neal Ford?
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
As someone else pointed out, if you are in the U.S. and you've given your two week notice, with some kind of "my last day will be ...", and then they let you go early, they are firing you, i.e. terminating you involuntarily. Thus, you rate unemployment. It might be hard to get, especially if you're scheduled to start work, and they will likely appeal, which will draw the process out futher, but you rate it.
Currently reading: "The Prince", by Nicolo Machiavelli
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OriginalGriff wrote:
However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences
It works exactly the same way back here in Brazil, I wonder if there are regulations that protect the employee in US.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
Reading your post made me laugh out loud.
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Reading your post made me laugh out loud.
:laugh: That's what I thought.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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OriginalGriff wrote:
However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences
It works exactly the same way back here in Brazil, I wonder if there are regulations that protect the employee in US.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I don't know how regulations work in US, but back here in Brazil, if something similiar happened (here it is 30 day notice) and they didn't want you to stay for the notice period, they would either have to fire you and pay all applicable fines of firing someone, including the 30 day notice payment or they would just ask you to stay home and pay you as you were working during that period.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
The latter is the thing that non-stupid companies in the US will do as well. Unfortunately some people don't realize that burnt bridges obstruct traffic both ways. :doh:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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OriginalGriff wrote:
However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences
It works exactly the same way back here in Brazil, I wonder if there are regulations that protect the employee in US.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
When there are they're at the state level; but in general even the most worker friendly jurisdictions in the US are more business friendly than most of the rest of the rich world.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Good for you. As a private consultant I can't have the government to back me up either, but it's good to have government to back up employees and prevent mass lay-offs and for many other reasons.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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That's an unusual and unpleasant parting. In the cases I've seen, a company will tell an employee who's given his two-week notice to "get out today" only if:
- There's bad blood between management and the employee, or:
- Management fears some sort of wrongdoing, whether the departing employee is motivated by profit or by vindictiveness.
Defense contractors will sometimes decree "get out today" for security reasons, but in such cases they usually pay the employee the two weeks' salary he would have earned.
If none of the above applies, then it's likely to be pique on the part of some higher-up -- basically "hurt feelings" over the employee's decision to move on. Managers are human and can be as petty as anyone else.
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
Fran Porretto wrote:
Defense contractors will sometimes decree "get out today" for security reasons, but in such cases they usually pay the employee the two weeks' salary he would have earned.
Even there it depends on the company. At my current (defense contractor) employer I've had several co-workers work a multi-month transition period between when they gave their notice and worked their last day. They either worked until the wrapup of their current projects, or part time (burning down paid leave instead of taking it as a big final payout check) while gradually handing off the ongoing tasks they were working on.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Ok. Let me start over. This isn't about contracts. It's customary to give two weeks notice at your place of employment. Further, a company will deem you as 'rehirable' if you give two weeks. The reason this is important is future companies may call asking if I am 'rehirable', which can influence another company's hiring decision. I work in a state where companies may fire you for any reason (accept illegal reasons like race, etc.), and I may quit for any reason.
I've lived and worked in TX and FL (both work-at-will states), and every company I've heard of that will release an employee immediately after giving two weeks notice has gone ahead and paid them out for those two weeks. Since I've literally seen dozens of companies do this in both states, I think there has to be a legal reason (if not a requirement, then it at least makes things look better if you were to file suit or something like that). If you know someone that works in HR, I'd give him/her a call. Depending on your income level, it might be worth paying a lawyer a hundred bucks or so for a consultation.
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A lot of companies do that with important positions: when you hand in your notice, that is the last time you will be on the premises, if only to reduce the damage you could do to the company from that time on. Think about a sales droid: when he hands in his notice he becomes a liability to the company and can't meet customers as their representative. With development it's less common (certainly in the UK) partly because most companies don't feel that development is (1) important, or (2) a role from which you could do any damage. We both know that that's horse apples: but then the people who make these decisions aren't technical. However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences (which should be listed in your employment contract), any more than you can leave tomorrow without them getting upset and doing whatever they can to get back at you - probably via any wages you would be owed. Yes - contact the new company and say "they have released me early: I can start Monday if thats good for you" but it's worth reminding the old company of their side of the bargain and see if you can get some money out of them up to at least the end of the notice period as well. I know one friend of mine who had a 8 weeks notice in his contract, but was let go when he handed in his notice on the Friday. Monday, he started the new job, collected dual wages for two months and used the company car from the old company until the new company car arrived! :laugh:
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers --- Serious Sam
I did that (except that I didn't have a company car), worked with pay from two companies for two weeks. And, what's more, they both knew about it and accepted it and the new and old managers met for a cordial cup of coffee in the interim to discuss my employment.
