My last day at this job is tomorrow
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I don't know how regulations work in US, but back here in Brazil, if something similiar happened (here it is 30 day notice) and they didn't want you to stay for the notice period, they would either have to fire you and pay all applicable fines of firing someone, including the 30 day notice payment or they would just ask you to stay home and pay you as you were working during that period.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
The latter is the thing that non-stupid companies in the US will do as well. Unfortunately some people don't realize that burnt bridges obstruct traffic both ways. :doh:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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OriginalGriff wrote:
However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences
It works exactly the same way back here in Brazil, I wonder if there are regulations that protect the employee in US.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
When there are they're at the state level; but in general even the most worker friendly jurisdictions in the US are more business friendly than most of the rest of the rich world.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Good for you. As a private consultant I can't have the government to back me up either, but it's good to have government to back up employees and prevent mass lay-offs and for many other reasons.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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That's an unusual and unpleasant parting. In the cases I've seen, a company will tell an employee who's given his two-week notice to "get out today" only if:
- There's bad blood between management and the employee, or:
- Management fears some sort of wrongdoing, whether the departing employee is motivated by profit or by vindictiveness.
Defense contractors will sometimes decree "get out today" for security reasons, but in such cases they usually pay the employee the two weeks' salary he would have earned.
If none of the above applies, then it's likely to be pique on the part of some higher-up -- basically "hurt feelings" over the employee's decision to move on. Managers are human and can be as petty as anyone else.
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
Fran Porretto wrote:
Defense contractors will sometimes decree "get out today" for security reasons, but in such cases they usually pay the employee the two weeks' salary he would have earned.
Even there it depends on the company. At my current (defense contractor) employer I've had several co-workers work a multi-month transition period between when they gave their notice and worked their last day. They either worked until the wrapup of their current projects, or part time (burning down paid leave instead of taking it as a big final payout check) while gradually handing off the ongoing tasks they were working on.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Ok. Let me start over. This isn't about contracts. It's customary to give two weeks notice at your place of employment. Further, a company will deem you as 'rehirable' if you give two weeks. The reason this is important is future companies may call asking if I am 'rehirable', which can influence another company's hiring decision. I work in a state where companies may fire you for any reason (accept illegal reasons like race, etc.), and I may quit for any reason.
I've lived and worked in TX and FL (both work-at-will states), and every company I've heard of that will release an employee immediately after giving two weeks notice has gone ahead and paid them out for those two weeks. Since I've literally seen dozens of companies do this in both states, I think there has to be a legal reason (if not a requirement, then it at least makes things look better if you were to file suit or something like that). If you know someone that works in HR, I'd give him/her a call. Depending on your income level, it might be worth paying a lawyer a hundred bucks or so for a consultation.
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A lot of companies do that with important positions: when you hand in your notice, that is the last time you will be on the premises, if only to reduce the damage you could do to the company from that time on. Think about a sales droid: when he hands in his notice he becomes a liability to the company and can't meet customers as their representative. With development it's less common (certainly in the UK) partly because most companies don't feel that development is (1) important, or (2) a role from which you could do any damage. We both know that that's horse apples: but then the people who make these decisions aren't technical. However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences (which should be listed in your employment contract), any more than you can leave tomorrow without them getting upset and doing whatever they can to get back at you - probably via any wages you would be owed. Yes - contact the new company and say "they have released me early: I can start Monday if thats good for you" but it's worth reminding the old company of their side of the bargain and see if you can get some money out of them up to at least the end of the notice period as well. I know one friend of mine who had a 8 weeks notice in his contract, but was let go when he handed in his notice on the Friday. Monday, he started the new job, collected dual wages for two months and used the company car from the old company until the new company car arrived! :laugh:
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers --- Serious Sam
I did that (except that I didn't have a company car), worked with pay from two companies for two weeks. And, what's more, they both knew about it and accepted it and the new and old managers met for a cordial cup of coffee in the interim to discuss my employment.
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Ok. Let me start over. This isn't about contracts. It's customary to give two weeks notice at your place of employment. Further, a company will deem you as 'rehirable' if you give two weeks. The reason this is important is future companies may call asking if I am 'rehirable', which can influence another company's hiring decision. I work in a state where companies may fire you for any reason (accept illegal reasons like race, etc.), and I may quit for any reason.
"I work in a state where companies may fire you for any reason" you still have rights, and one of those is compensation in lieu of notice. and you might want to ask your states employment/labour ministry/board/committee/code, as it seems you are being screwed and don't have an issue with that. My employer can fire me anytime, anyone's can, but unless it's for stealing or screwing his wife I must be given notice or pay in lieu, and where I am from pay in lieu can work out to a good chunk, so after a couple of years the boss is better off just letting me do his wife, it will cost him less. If i tell my boss I am quitting in two weeks and he says don't bother coming in, I am still going to get paid for at least two weeks.
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The latter is the thing that non-stupid companies in the US will do as well. Unfortunately some people don't realize that burnt bridges obstruct traffic both ways. :doh:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
This :thumbsup::
Dan Neely wrote:
Unfortunately some people don't realize that burnt bridges obstruct traffic both ways. :doh:
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
In a right to work state there is nothing you can do to guarantee that you will be paid for your two weeks notice unless the state you live in has a law requiring payment. I was once in a situation similar to yours. I gave my two week notice, finished up my current project two days later, and the next day I was told to leave and I was only paid for the two days I worked after giving my notice. Some companies have a policy of walking people to the door the day they give notice, but will still pay people the two weeks notice. The theory behind this is once you decide to leave, you may no longer have the company's best interest in your actions, so they minimize their potential losses by walking you out the door. This ignores the fact that if someone wants to take company secrets or customer lists, they will generally take them before they give notice.
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I've lived and worked in TX and FL (both work-at-will states), and every company I've heard of that will release an employee immediately after giving two weeks notice has gone ahead and paid them out for those two weeks. Since I've literally seen dozens of companies do this in both states, I think there has to be a legal reason (if not a requirement, then it at least makes things look better if you were to file suit or something like that). If you know someone that works in HR, I'd give him/her a call. Depending on your income level, it might be worth paying a lawyer a hundred bucks or so for a consultation.
In another reply I mentioned that I gave my two weeks notice, finished my current project two days later, and the next day, was told to leave and only paid for the two days I worked during my notice period. This particular case was in Florida, so unless the law in Florida has changed since 2000, it would appear that there is no legal requirement to pay an employee for non-worked notice time.
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
This is VERY typical in my experience. Regardless, you SHOULD have been paid for the 2 weeks. No questions asked in my book. My basic rule is that you never do the wrong thing to someone who did the right thing.
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Technically, in the US most states say that if you leave a job involuntarily you are entitled to unemployment benefits, even if you have another job lined up. So if you do get fired, the first thing you should do is file for unemployment until you actually start work at the new place. Also, if you do get fired, call the new place up and say "hey, I'm available early", a lot of places will take the opportunity to get you on board quicker. Most companies don't hire because they need people in a month or two, they need people now and its painful until those people get on board.
It depends upon the company. One large company I worked for only did new employee onboarding / orientation on alternating Mondays. If your two weeks notice at your previous company made you available on the wrong Monday, you had to wait until the next Monday.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
However, in the UK there is a minimum notice period with nearly all full-time jobs (and it's often related to the frequency of pay: monthly wage equals 4 weeks notice) and it applies to both sides. They can't bin you without paying you up to the end of the notice period except for gross offences
It works exactly the same way back here in Brazil, I wonder if there are regulations that protect the employee in US.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
There are no such laws in the U.S. in right-to-work states. However, a union contract or other employment contract may specify that the employee be paid for notice pay whether they work it or not. Note that in I.T. in the U.S., employee contracts and union contracts are rare.
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I've lived and worked in TX and FL (both work-at-will states), and every company I've heard of that will release an employee immediately after giving two weeks notice has gone ahead and paid them out for those two weeks. Since I've literally seen dozens of companies do this in both states, I think there has to be a legal reason (if not a requirement, then it at least makes things look better if you were to file suit or something like that). If you know someone that works in HR, I'd give him/her a call. Depending on your income level, it might be worth paying a lawyer a hundred bucks or so for a consultation.
I live in Florida. The way it works, as I have been told, is that once the two week notice has been given the company can honor it or can move your last day to any day they want within that two week period. They are only required to pay for actual work done, not the entire two week period. So when you put in your two week notice, the company can say we accept your resignation but are making it effective immediately, so you are out two weeks of pay.
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
Most IT positions are let go as they turn in notice, but I have (rarely) seen an employee kept on for the full notice period due to staffing shortages. If you work in an "at-will" state, there's nothing you can do about being let go early after giving notice except file for unemployment. However, let your current employer know your intentions up front. If you plan on working for the full two weeks, then let them know that you won't start at the new company and intend to either work or collect unemployment for the notice period. Most companies don't want to take the hit on their unemployment insurance and will opt to keep you on at that point or pay you severance. Also, everyone else is correct that the new employer probably needs someone sooner rather than later and will let you start early. (Training with the outgoing person is usually a good thing.)
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
that sucks. Been there. AS someone else has already mentioned this bridge goes two ways. There are websites where you can rate employers. I highly suggest you do so. And tell all your buddies about how you were treated as you were walked out the door. I had this same experience. I had a long discussion with the worthless(aren't they all) HR person. She told me they left it up to the manager and let them decide. I even talked to a lawyer. Long story short. I had a case. But I would only have been able to collect 5 days of pay and it would have taken 6+ months. Lawyers advice was what I gave you. Post it online as a review of the company and talk to all the other Devs in you can. Word got around about that manager and he is no longer with that company(not sure that was the reason but it didn't hurt). Most places in the US will pay you for the notice time. Whether you work or they want you to work it or not. Usually they have it stated in their HR policies. Go check.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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There are no such laws in the U.S. in right-to-work states. However, a union contract or other employment contract may specify that the employee be paid for notice pay whether they work it or not. Note that in I.T. in the U.S., employee contracts and union contracts are rare.
Interesting, here pretty much every full time job is bound to a union. And employers do not risk violate union agreements as in a law suit there's 99.9% chance the employer will lose.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
Check your PTO balance, and then check your dept of labor on PTO. If you still have PTO and if the contract doesn't say that PTO isn't prorated, then it might be the case where ( NYC case) the company has to pay your remaining PTO balance. When I left, they told me to get out asap I sent my letter, and since I had 2 weeks of PTO. I sent them another notice, that I'm going away on my PTO for 2 weeks and then leave with the following link: http://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/faq.shtm#11 I got PTO with no argument. You can also collect unemployment for those 2 weeks if worst comes to worst. That's why the feds deduct worker's comp from your paycheck, and from what I recall, it doesn't affect your social security account, since the unemployment works on an insurance basis
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
I had a similar thing. I live in Nevada, which is a right-to-work state (which I translate as you have no right to work), where they can fire you without notice or giving cause. In my case I had a new job lined up just after I was taking some vacation. Our Employee Handbook (the employment contract someone mentioned) stated three things: 1) They want at least 2 weeks notice if you are leaving voluntarily. 2) They may ask you to leave prior to your requested last day after giving notice. 3) Any accumulated vacation will not necessarily be paid to you upon voluntary termination. So while my new job wanted me to start at the beginning of August, I had already planned to take the vacation (a wedding cruise) months in advance for the last week of July. So I didn't give notice prior to the vacation, because I figured they might request that I leave at that point. Instead I waited until my first day back after the cruise. So I gave notice, brought a project and department manager up to speed on the Selenium project I had been doing for them. My manager had called a group meeting late that morning letting the group know I had given notice and all indications were that I would spend the next two weeks getting my customer support cases and the Selenium project transferred over. However, I got a call to go to a conference room at 4:30PM and they basically gave me my walking papers. My manager went back to my desk to get my stuff from it and bring it to me. Now other people at the company had given notice and were there for at least the two weeks, so we all knew about it in advance. The person that trained me for the support work when I started was one of them. However, I think I was let go more quickly because I was doing development work and they didn't want any security issues from me putting some type of malware into the code. That was the first time our group had ever done coding, so in my case I think it was a security issue. I think any developer might have to expect that, but I objected to them asking for 2 weeks notice yet not paying you accumulated vacation time or the remainder of the two weeks if they let you go sooner. They were a lousy company as far as how they dealt with their employees and that is just one such example.
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Question: At this job all worked out well, but at my last job, I gave my two weeks notice, and they told me to get out that day. This really screwed me up, because I wasn't starting my next job for two weeks. I was out that salary. How does one protect one's self yet also do the right thing with the notice?
If you're in a right-to-work state, you really can't do anything. Giving 2-weeks notice is a professional courtesy but your employer is under absolutely no legal compulsion to honor the 2-week notice. OTOH, neither are you: you can just walk out too, without any kind of negative effect.
