What is it with these Gay Rights people
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Isn't fat_boy in Europe though?
1. If he is, isn't Europe even worse than the US? I haven't been there but from what I have heard morals almost don't exist there, in the media at least. 2. I have called him out on this. He makes posts where one minute he's in Europe and the next he's in California and then he's in Germany. Either he travels a ton or lives in his mother's basement and flies with Flight Simulator. :)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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You are certain that same sex relationships are not normal, presumably because they are less common although they have existed throughout history and do exist in many other animal species. Because you think they are not normal then they should not be talked about in a positive way. Inter-racial relationships by the same measure are not normal, should they also not be talked about in a positive way.
I agree with you that they are comparable. Just think back 100 years ago. I think black/white marriage was as "offensive" in the US as gay marriage..
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Quote:
Isn't fat_boy in Europe though?
1. If he is, isn't Europe even worse than the US? I haven't been there but from what I have heard morals almost don't exist there, in the media at least. 2. I have called him out on this. He makes posts where one minute he's in Europe and the next he's in California and then he's in Germany. Either he travels a ton or lives in his mother's basement and flies with Flight Simulator. :)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
one minute he's in Europe and the next he's in California and then he's in Germany
Germany is in Europe. Originally from UK, lived in France for a number of years, recently working on a contract in Germany, currently considering a contract in Belgium.
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But lots of people do consider inter-racial relationships not normal and wrong, even immoral. Are their prejudices wrong and yours are right? At least you recognise that your opposition is simply a prejudice and not born out of any reason. Completely pointless trying to reason against such a thing.
Every prejudice that isn't yours would be wrong in your opinion. That is not the point. The fact is, mother/father relationships are normal because that's where children come from - their mom and dad. Race has nothing to do with this. The fact is, boys usually emulate dad and girls emulate mom. Considering how many unwanted kids (kids given up for adoption) we have and all that, the normal family structure has completely eroded. In a perfect world, rape would be eliminated and children born out of wedlock would no longer happen. Then mom and dad can bring up their kids the way they want them to. You wish to be gay? Fine! You wish to raise your child gay? Fine! But don't tell me I can't raise my son to believe that being gay is not wrong since I will be teaching him to be straight and that cannot coexist with being gay.
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RyanDev wrote:
one minute he's in Europe and the next he's in California and then he's in Germany
Germany is in Europe. Originally from UK, lived in France for a number of years, recently working on a contract in Germany, currently considering a contract in Belgium.
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Every prejudice that isn't yours would be wrong in your opinion. That is not the point. The fact is, mother/father relationships are normal because that's where children come from - their mom and dad. Race has nothing to do with this. The fact is, boys usually emulate dad and girls emulate mom. Considering how many unwanted kids (kids given up for adoption) we have and all that, the normal family structure has completely eroded. In a perfect world, rape would be eliminated and children born out of wedlock would no longer happen. Then mom and dad can bring up their kids the way they want them to. You wish to be gay? Fine! You wish to raise your child gay? Fine! But don't tell me I can't raise my son to believe that being gay is not wrong since I will be teaching him to be straight and that cannot coexist with being gay.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
The fact is, mother/father relationships are normal because that's where children come from
So childless relationships between men and women are wrong and not normal then?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
The fact is, boys usually emulate dad and girls emulate mom
I'm not sure that's a fact, I doubt it is true at all.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
You wish to raise your child gay?
How on earth do you raise someone gay?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
But don't tell me I can't raise my son to believe that being gay is not wrong
You can tell your son whatever you want to, and with any luck he'll grow up to make his own mind up about things rather than hang on every word you've ever told him.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I will be teaching him to be straight
Again, how the hell can you teach someone to be straight? Your son will be whoever and whatever he turns out to be. I hope for the sake of both of you that you can cope with what that is, because it is unlikely to be exactly what you have planned for him.
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Does any country on earth accept 'promotion' of gayness? Is there an example anywhere on earth where it has been 'promoted'? Cant think of any myself. Fact is its worse than that. Russia is anti gay because Putaian is a Faschist. Period. If anyone doesnt think so they are an idiot.
Seriously, do you not watch TV in the US? But lets look at a few other examples. Government sex fields are no longer male/female only. There's about 10 or 12 fields including cross-dressers. Surprised the hell out of me. The government was going to change passport and other application forms to say parent 1 and 2 instead of mother and father on all official forms. Apparently, one side got upset that it's biased in one side and they don't want a separate form. Family trees in school are now based on who's living with whom as opposed to who's genes you have. There's a lot more other things that strongly suggest that father/mother relationships are not to be taught as fact anymore, but are one of several options. Promoting gayness is done by making straightness an option.
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Actively promoting homosexuality to the young is just wrong.
Do you believe homosexuality is a matter of biology, or a matter of choice?
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
The fact is, mother/father relationships are normal because that's where children come from
So childless relationships between men and women are wrong and not normal then?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
The fact is, boys usually emulate dad and girls emulate mom
I'm not sure that's a fact, I doubt it is true at all.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
You wish to raise your child gay?
How on earth do you raise someone gay?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
But don't tell me I can't raise my son to believe that being gay is not wrong
You can tell your son whatever you want to, and with any luck he'll grow up to make his own mind up about things rather than hang on every word you've ever told him.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I will be teaching him to be straight
Again, how the hell can you teach someone to be straight? Your son will be whoever and whatever he turns out to be. I hope for the sake of both of you that you can cope with what that is, because it is unlikely to be exactly what you have planned for him.
chriselst wrote:
So childless relationships between men and women are wrong and not normal then?
A implies B does not mean B implies A. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other and using an openning argument like that shows a failure in understanding.
chriselst wrote:
I'm not sure that's a fact, I doubt it is true at all.
That's absolutely true. Since my son was born, I've seen how he emulates me mostly and other boys. This is a fact. If you had a son you would see that every single day.
chriselst wrote:
How on earth do you raise someone gay?
Who would you tell your child to date? If you're gay, you'd tell they they can date anyone. If you're straight, you'd tell them to date the opposite sex. You don't have kids, do you?
chriselst wrote:
You can tell your son whatever you want to, and with any luck he'll grow up to make his own mind up about things rather than hang on every word you've ever told him.
That's true. And how you raise them greatly affects how they will grow up. Or is this not a fact either?
chriselst wrote:
Again, how the hell can you teach someone to be straight
Same as above.
chriselst wrote:
Your son will be whoever and whatever he turns out to be. I hope for the sake of both of you that you can cope with what that is, because it is unlikely to be exactly what you have planned for him.
Hopefully, he'll be more influenced by family and friends than by television as well as grow up to make all the right choices.
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chriselst wrote:
So childless relationships between men and women are wrong and not normal then?
A implies B does not mean B implies A. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other and using an openning argument like that shows a failure in understanding.
chriselst wrote:
I'm not sure that's a fact, I doubt it is true at all.
That's absolutely true. Since my son was born, I've seen how he emulates me mostly and other boys. This is a fact. If you had a son you would see that every single day.
chriselst wrote:
How on earth do you raise someone gay?
Who would you tell your child to date? If you're gay, you'd tell they they can date anyone. If you're straight, you'd tell them to date the opposite sex. You don't have kids, do you?
chriselst wrote:
You can tell your son whatever you want to, and with any luck he'll grow up to make his own mind up about things rather than hang on every word you've ever told him.
That's true. And how you raise them greatly affects how they will grow up. Or is this not a fact either?
chriselst wrote:
Again, how the hell can you teach someone to be straight
Same as above.
chriselst wrote:
Your son will be whoever and whatever he turns out to be. I hope for the sake of both of you that you can cope with what that is, because it is unlikely to be exactly what you have planned for him.
Hopefully, he'll be more influenced by family and friends than by television as well as grow up to make all the right choices.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
That's absolutely true. Since my son was born, I've seen how he emulates me mostly and other boys. This is a fact. If you had a son you would see that every single day.
It is absolutely true because you have observed one example. Nice sampling. Although you then contradict yourself, admitting he is emulating others too.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Who would you tell your child to date? If you're gay, you'd tell they they can date anyone. If you're straight, you'd tell them to date the opposite sex. You don't have kids, do you?
Utter bollocks. If you're a prejudiced throwback who cannot accept the real world then you tell them who to date and try to control their life. It has nothing to do with being gay or being straight. I do have a child. I have not decided how she will lead her life, that is up to her. All I can do is give her all the information she needs to make her own informed choices and try to teach her to be kind to others.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
grow up to make all the right choices.
You mean your choices.
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Ten years ago, they argued that it was nature, not nurture. Now they're pushing to nurture kids and teach them that they're not born straight. If it's okay for you to be gay and raise your kid gay, it's okay for me to be straight and raise my kid straight. They're conflicting ideologies. You can't teach both.
IMHO it's not about raising your kid straight or gay; It's about tolerance towards other people's sexual orientation but at first tolerance at all.
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
That's absolutely true. Since my son was born, I've seen how he emulates me mostly and other boys. This is a fact. If you had a son you would see that every single day.
It is absolutely true because you have observed one example. Nice sampling. Although you then contradict yourself, admitting he is emulating others too.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Who would you tell your child to date? If you're gay, you'd tell they they can date anyone. If you're straight, you'd tell them to date the opposite sex. You don't have kids, do you?
Utter bollocks. If you're a prejudiced throwback who cannot accept the real world then you tell them who to date and try to control their life. It has nothing to do with being gay or being straight. I do have a child. I have not decided how she will lead her life, that is up to her. All I can do is give her all the information she needs to make her own informed choices and try to teach her to be kind to others.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
grow up to make all the right choices.
You mean your choices.
chriselst wrote:
It is absolutely true because you have observed one example. Nice sampling.
That was one example. Every boy that I've seen growing up emulated their father in one way or other. I have many nephews and cousins who are younger.
chriselst wrote:
Although you then contradict yourself, admitting he is emulating others too.
How is that a contradiction? Kids will eventually learn from other kids. But before they go out and meet kids in school or even daycare, they start learning from and emulating their parents.
chriselst wrote:
Utter bollocks.
If you're a prejudiced throwback who cannot accept the real world then you tell them who to date and try to control their life. It has nothing to do with being gay or being straight.So the real world is letting them choose whatever they want with no input from you? The fact that you guide them does not mean you control them. No opinion in how they live is just as bad as controlling every aspect of it.
chriselst wrote:
I have not decided how she will lead her life, that is up to her. All I can do is give her all the information she needs to make her own informed choices and try to teach her to be kind to others.
I am not expecting you, nor me, to lead their lives for them. However, we are expected to guide them. Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
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IMHO it's not about raising your kid straight or gay; It's about tolerance towards other people's sexual orientation but at first tolerance at all.
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
It's about both. Like I said elsewhere, you can raise your kid whichever way you want, but don't tell me I have to accept you being gay without you accepting me being straight. It works both ways (without being bi). :)
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chriselst wrote:
It is absolutely true because you have observed one example. Nice sampling.
That was one example. Every boy that I've seen growing up emulated their father in one way or other. I have many nephews and cousins who are younger.
chriselst wrote:
Although you then contradict yourself, admitting he is emulating others too.
How is that a contradiction? Kids will eventually learn from other kids. But before they go out and meet kids in school or even daycare, they start learning from and emulating their parents.
chriselst wrote:
Utter bollocks.
If you're a prejudiced throwback who cannot accept the real world then you tell them who to date and try to control their life. It has nothing to do with being gay or being straight.So the real world is letting them choose whatever they want with no input from you? The fact that you guide them does not mean you control them. No opinion in how they live is just as bad as controlling every aspect of it.
chriselst wrote:
I have not decided how she will lead her life, that is up to her. All I can do is give her all the information she needs to make her own informed choices and try to teach her to be kind to others.
I am not expecting you, nor me, to lead their lives for them. However, we are expected to guide them. Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
Of course she can be gay. How does that make any difference to me? Will it make her a different person? Will it make me love her less? She can be whoever she wants to be, whoever makes her happiest. I had some Jehovah's Witnesses round my front door a few years ago. The woman told me she had never seen her grandkids and didn't have any contact with her own daughter any more because the grandkids were born out of wedlock. How desperately sad. Children rebel against control, the tighter the control the further they rebel. I have known so many who have lost any kind of relationship with their parents because their parents could not approve of who they were.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
Of course she can be gay. How does that make any difference to me? Will it make her a different person? Will it make me love her less? She can be whoever she wants to be, whoever makes her happiest. I had some Jehovah's Witnesses round my front door a few years ago. The woman told me she had never seen her grandkids and didn't have any contact with her own daughter any more because the grandkids were born out of wedlock. How desperately sad. Children rebel against control, the tighter the control the further they rebel. I have known so many who have lost any kind of relationship with their parents because their parents could not approve of who they were.
chriselst wrote:
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
Of course she can be gay. How does that make any difference to me? Will it make her a different person? Will it make me love her less?
Reread what I wrote. The fact that you DON'T tell her to be straight IMPLIES that you're telling her she can be gay. That contradicts your other statements on how you can raise someone straight or gay. You're basically giving her the green light on being gay if she chooses to without even realizing it. Will you love her less if she was ugly, stupid, boring, short, fat, slow, or a kleptomaniac. No. She's your daughter. That doesn't mean we accept everything about our kids blindly. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
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chriselst wrote:
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
Of course she can be gay. How does that make any difference to me? Will it make her a different person? Will it make me love her less?
Reread what I wrote. The fact that you DON'T tell her to be straight IMPLIES that you're telling her she can be gay. That contradicts your other statements on how you can raise someone straight or gay. You're basically giving her the green light on being gay if she chooses to without even realizing it. Will you love her less if she was ugly, stupid, boring, short, fat, slow, or a kleptomaniac. No. She's your daughter. That doesn't mean we accept everything about our kids blindly. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
You are an idiot. Sorry, only conclusion I can come to. You cannot raise someone to be gay or to be straight. You can try, but you will most likely fail. I am not implying that I am telling my telling she can be gay, I am explicitly stating that I will tell her she can be gay if that is what feels right for her and that is what makes her happy. Telling her that will not make it more likely that she is gay. Telling her that will probably make it less likely that should she be gay then she will not attempt to hide the fact from me, less likely that she will not fight against herself to try to be who she thinks I want her to be, less likely that she will not grow to hate me for not approving of who she is, less likely that she will kill herself. Nope, if she is gay then it will not change our relationship one bit. Any other reaction on my part would damage her and damage me.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
don't tell me I have to accept you being gay without you accepting me being straight
Way to turn the prejudice around - from "I hate f*gs" to "why do f*gs hate me". X| How many heterophobic people have you encountered? How many stories have you read about gangs of homosexuals going round beating up anyone they thinks isn't gay? I'm going to guess at "none".
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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You are an idiot. Sorry, only conclusion I can come to. You cannot raise someone to be gay or to be straight. You can try, but you will most likely fail. I am not implying that I am telling my telling she can be gay, I am explicitly stating that I will tell her she can be gay if that is what feels right for her and that is what makes her happy. Telling her that will not make it more likely that she is gay. Telling her that will probably make it less likely that should she be gay then she will not attempt to hide the fact from me, less likely that she will not fight against herself to try to be who she thinks I want her to be, less likely that she will not grow to hate me for not approving of who she is, less likely that she will kill herself. Nope, if she is gay then it will not change our relationship one bit. Any other reaction on my part would damage her and damage me.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
but don't tell me I have to accept you being gay without you accepting me being straight. It works both ways (without being bi).
:thumbsup: Tha'ts the point. And as I said elsewhere, I think sexual education shall be done at an appropriate age, and by the parents. How they exactly do it is their business, as long as they raise their kids with tolerance towards others. What really disturbs me about the russian law is the fact that they actively promote beating up gays, making them 2nd class people and indirectly drawing the line between gays and pedophiles. Pedos and gays are not the same, and for this reason I happily help you slap a pedo, but not someone who's happen to be gay.
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
