Learning a language using an IDE or text editor.

[cjb110]

IDE for sure, but once you have the basics of the language, allocate some time to learn what the IDE has been doing for you. If its been creating stubs/boilerplate stuff, then check those find out what they're doing, and why. Also be familiar with the structure of any project files or solution files, they aren't the language but you'll likely need to change them at some point. Taking an app that builds in the IDE and then build it yourself via the command-line tools is a good idea. Finally learn what else the IDE can do, can it help build unit tests?, help during the design? etc

[glennPattonWork3]

Much as I would like the newbies to feel pain, IDE it helps in leaning syntax...

[Rajesh R Subramanian]

IDE.

"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.

[Joan M]

IDEm :rolleyes:

[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]

[Septimus Hedgehog]

The IDE solves many problems but IDE-bloat makes it tricky to master. When I search for text, I use my standalone editor, UltraEdit. Its search facilities are better then VS and I can see contexts which are much nicer to navigate than with the IDE. In short, don't be shy to use things that complement the IDE. You sometimes need more than a hammer and chisel in your toolbox. :) :thumbsup:

If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.

[greldak]

I seem to recall that there was a backspace key - it punched all holes in the column which was read as ASCII 127 or whatever the EBCDIC equivalent was. What you didn't have was the cursor control keys. Generally it was as easy to copy the card up to the error and continue from there. I'd agree about using the IDE being much beter though although the ext editor approach does have a few benifits primarily it encourages you to get the syntax correct in the first place. The even greater benifit of punched cards or more accurately the day's wait for the printout in the bucket run was to ensure that you understood the code you were writing.

[gervacleto]

I started with something "less" than a text editor. Basic on Commodore 64, and believe me, it was a pain in the .... neck ;) After that I went to AmigaBasic a real text editor, I traveled through many different programming languages and editors until I landed on Visual Basic V. 1.0. It was like arrive to haven (Programmer's haven, of course). Water ran under bridges and now I am using Visual Studio (C#), and there is no way to return to my text editor's time. It is like get down from a limo to travel on a wheelbarrow. Of course this is my personal opinion, no offense :laugh:

[Obi_Hendrix]

Thanks all for your comments, seems I'll be playing with both then!

[Kirk 10389821]

Honestly, it depends on the IDE and your environment. I would say multiple monitors is more important that an IDE, but having BOTH is better. Also, I recommend the PAINFULLY obvious... Please spend a LOT of time READING code. You would not expect someone to be a good author who had never read a book, would you? So, the more code you read, the more you will start to pick up, and leverage later on. There is nothing wrong with a Good IDE. But if the IDE is constantly saying "Please wait while we do some background work", and it slows you down... Then it might be frustrating/painful. On the other hand, if it is responsive, and works, and has easy access to help, etc. I think it is a great way to learn. And I have punched cards, and worked with TECO (optimized for Paper Terminal Editing, on a PDP/11). I use NotePad++ for a lot, but I use a couple of IDEs where they make sense. Syntax highlighting can significantly help with learning a language, and specifically reading source code... Best of luck....

[StatementTerminator]

Either way is fine for learning the language and OO principles. But part of what you need to learn is how to use an IDE, you need to know how to use the tools for scaffolding, building, debugging, etc. because this is how most software shops do things. So I'd say go ahead and use whatever IDE is appropriate for your language, because you'll need to know how to use it.

[Leng Vang]

It really depend on how much time you can devote to learn a new language with its libraries. Also how in-depth you want to know the new language or programming paradigm. If you have a project waiting to be developed and you are coming to speed on the language then a IDE will get you there quicker. A good IDE (i.e. Visual Studio) is an memory augmentation as well as a guiding tool. Projects involve not just the language you will have to know but also the mountain of libraries as well. However, if you really want to burn the language construct into memory, using a text editor will do that, because you have to correct any mistakes you've made and we all know we learn best from our mistakes. If you are absolute beginner start to learn to program, text editor might be easier path, but if you are seasoned programmer just stepping into other language and already familiar with how IDE works, then an IDE probably the way to go. Fighting an IDE at the same time while trying to understand a new syntax is a double edges sword.

[Gary Wheeler]

I had a class that taught us DEC PDP-11 assembly language as preparation for the follow-on course in real-time programming. We did the projects for the PDP-11 assembly language course on punched cards, running a PDP-11 simulator on the university's IBM mainframe. This was not a fun experience, since the simulator was a graduate student's thesis project, and not especially, er, complete.

Software Zen: delete this;

[RafagaX]

Text editor? IDE?, no, you should start by writing your code on paper, then sending it to a professional mainframe operator for him to turn it into punched cards and run it, it may take around 4 weeks to get the results, so better make no mistakes... ;P Seriously, given that IDEs do a lot of magic being the scenes, i recommend you to start with a text editor (Notepad++ is a good one) and compile by hand, this way you'll have a better grasp of what you're really doing. Don't like the text editor?, then you may want to use an IDE, but start with empty projects and turn off code completition (Intellisense on VS).

CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...

[PIEBALDconsult]

Hear hear!

Member 10389821 wrote:

I have punched cards

I haven't.

Member 10389821 wrote:

and worked with TECO ... on a PDP/11.

Done that. While the other students were using a line-editor (EDT in line mode) the cool kids taught me to use TECO in screen mode. :cool: I was shocked later to find that EDT has a screen mode -- it's what I still use on VMS, I never bothered to learn EVE or LSE.

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[Nicolas Dorier]

There is two schools in learning. Top down or down top. The down top approach means that you start from the abyss, where "abyss" is an arbitrary start point that change depending on the age of the adviser. For 60 years old guy, you should start with assembler. For the 30 years old guy, most likely C++, and for the 40 years old guy C. For your specific question, replace the name of the languages with the name of respective text editor/IDE release date. The Top down approach does not depends on the age of the adviser. You start with the problem, read tutorial that permit you to move quick and deepen your knowledge as you encounter new problems. I am a big believer in the top down approach that keep your motivation high since you can apply immediately your knowledge. As a .NET trainer, this is the approach I use for my students, and always got good feedback on that. So in short : Start with IDE. Except if the place you will work, for one reason or another can't have the IDE. The IDE is not less important than the language. But I will tell you : If the company you work for is too poor to buy you an IDE, then they probably not selling the right product... or the product right. An IDE has a so minimal price compared to a salary, that's it is not even worth debatting. Startup ? Use Bizpark.

[nocturns2]

They were great for hole art too! Kinda like text art.

[Corporal Agarn]

I had forgotten that. Ah the old days. :)