So I was finally forced...
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
with extreme prejudice. No wonder this thing is failing in the market.
200 Million Windows 8 licenses sold is a market failure? Wish I could fail like that. :rolleyes:
Play my game Gravity: Android[^], Windows Phone 7[^]
To paraphrase: Buy Microsoft Windows 8. 200 million users cannot be wrong. Eat shite. 200 million flies can't be wrong.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
with extreme prejudice. No wonder this thing is failing in the market.
200 Million Windows 8 licenses sold is a market failure? Wish I could fail like that. :rolleyes:
Play my game Gravity: Android[^], Windows Phone 7[^]
There are problems with the figure: MS count it as "sold" as soon as the device is manufactured, so that figure includes devices gathering dust in a warehouse. It also counts Windows Phone, Surface and such like, rather than previously "just" desktop machines. And of course, as Dave says - that doesn't count cases where it was "upgraded" to Windows 7 immediately after power on... Even with those all counted, that's a long way behind the market penetration MS got with Win7 in the same time since it's launch (which was 20M desktop per month!). Remove phone, surface and "straight to bin" upgrades, and the market penetration is considerably behind where MS needs it to be. Market failure? Yes, I'm afraid it is.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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to build a Windows 8.1 machine at work. After 5 minutes of using it, I can honestly say I HATE it... with a passion... with extreme prejudice. No wonder this thing is failing in the market.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave KreskowiakOh, do tell, what you hate about it? (just curious, I'm with you!) Marc
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to build a Windows 8.1 machine at work. After 5 minutes of using it, I can honestly say I HATE it... with a passion... with extreme prejudice. No wonder this thing is failing in the market.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave KreskowiakI used to hate it, but I don't mind now. Its on my work machine. I wanted to hate it, but I realized that I spend about 95% of my day in Visual Studio and don't have to directly interact with it. When I do, it isn't that bad. I guess it depends on what you have to do with it. Learn some shortcut keys and focus your energy somewhere else. Hogan
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To paraphrase: Buy Microsoft Windows 8. 200 million users cannot be wrong. Eat shite. 200 million flies can't be wrong.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
No paraphrasing needed, millions of people are often very wrong. I'm just kinda surprised anything that could sell 200 million could be considered a failure. I'd be ecstatic if i could sell 200 million of anything whether it was software, waffle irons, or pet rocks.
Play my game Gravity: Android[^], Windows Phone 7[^]
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I used to hate it, but I don't mind now. Its on my work machine. I wanted to hate it, but I realized that I spend about 95% of my day in Visual Studio and don't have to directly interact with it. When I do, it isn't that bad. I guess it depends on what you have to do with it. Learn some shortcut keys and focus your energy somewhere else. Hogan
Agreed. I've been using my Surface Pro essentially as a workstation for over a year now (I got a USB3 dock providing connections to my regular keyboard/mouse/3 monitors/everything else I can throw at it), and with all the shortcuts and pinned icons I have, I hardly ever see even the start screen, let alone any metro app. It's really not as in-your-face as people make it out to be, once you actually start using it as if it was just 7.
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Sold is not the same as "in use".
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
Right idea, wrong O/S. We buy machines and they come with a Win8 license. The first we do is scrape 'em down to bare metal and slap it with the corporate Win7 load. That's why it's 200M licenses sold, but not in use. Considering the number of Windows machines on the planet, 200M is nothing.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
No paraphrasing needed, millions of people are often very wrong. I'm just kinda surprised anything that could sell 200 million could be considered a failure. I'd be ecstatic if i could sell 200 million of anything whether it was software, waffle irons, or pet rocks.
Play my game Gravity: Android[^], Windows Phone 7[^]
Compare that to the number of Windows machines running on the planet (BILLIONS on them). 200 million licenses is nothing compared to that. How many Surfaces (Windows 8 licenses!) are sitting in distributor warehouses right now?? Those are licenses that Microsoft has sold, but the distributor has yet to sell to a retailer and a retailer has yet to sell to a customer. When you get a "sold" number like that from a manufacturer, that is supply-chain semantics spun by marketing.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
Right idea, wrong O/S. We buy machines and they come with a Win8 license. The first we do is scrape 'em down to bare metal and slap it with the corporate Win7 load. That's why it's 200M licenses sold, but not in use. Considering the number of Windows machines on the planet, 200M is nothing.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave KreskowiakDave Kreskowiak wrote:
We buy machines and they come with a Win8 license. The first we do is scrape 'em down to bare metal and slap it with the corporate Win7 load.
..and that's cheaper than a PC without an OS? I mean including the extra work you put in. Aight, so some companies will downgrade their desktops after buying the "special offer"; there'll also be enough that will not have a choice, whatever the reason is - lack in skills, or company-policy.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Oh, do tell, what you hate about it? (just curious, I'm with you!) Marc
Where do I begin?! :laugh: First, look at this from the standpoint that I have some 8,500+ users who are used to Windows XP/7. Without any help at all, find Shutdown, Restart, or Logoff. Yeah, very different from what people are used to and not intuitive at all. You basically have 2 different desktops. The "normal" (barely qualifies!) Desktop that we're all used to, an then there's the "other" (formally known as Metro) desktop that is just a mess to find stuff on and use a mouse with. From an IT standpoint, you now have TWO interactive logon sessions when logged it at the console. I'm guessing that one is for Desktop and the other Metro. Apps start from the same screen, but depending on their type, can be on either desktop. This is just a support NIGHTMARE without putting out a "How Do I..." guide to every workstation. My personal view is that "THEY MOVED MY CHEESE!" Where the f'ck is this?? Where the f'uck is that?? Basically, it's way too big of a jump in the functionality of the UI. They should have made the changes to the UI more gradual changes so they don't loose and confuse users. My F-I-L would be completely lost using Win8. The only reason we have a Win8.1 image at work at all is because a few big wigs wanted it. It's not going to be pushed to all desktops because of the learning curve and we're waiting to see what changes MS makes in Win9 to make it more "Enterprise Friendly"*. * Your definition may vary from Microsofts.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
to build a Windows 8.1 machine at work. After 5 minutes of using it, I can honestly say I HATE it... with a passion... with extreme prejudice. No wonder this thing is failing in the market.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave KreskowiakI'm not trolling, lord knows i do enough of that on Reddit. On a serious note what exactly do you hate about Windows 8? I use it at home and do some light development on it as well and i honestly like it, the 'Start' menu sucks balls but i just start typing and find what i'm looking for that way. Aside form the 'Start' menu i honestly don't know what people don't like about it
Don't comment your code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to read!
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
We buy machines and they come with a Win8 license. The first we do is scrape 'em down to bare metal and slap it with the corporate Win7 load.
..and that's cheaper than a PC without an OS? I mean including the extra work you put in. Aight, so some companies will downgrade their desktops after buying the "special offer"; there'll also be enough that will not have a choice, whatever the reason is - lack in skills, or company-policy.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
I don't do the work! :-D Other minions do that stuff. I do Systems Engineering. I also don't write the procurement contracts nor do I dictate what we're buying and what HP is selling, and what HP is telling Microsoft as far as sales.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
I'm not trolling, lord knows i do enough of that on Reddit. On a serious note what exactly do you hate about Windows 8? I use it at home and do some light development on it as well and i honestly like it, the 'Start' menu sucks balls but i just start typing and find what i'm looking for that way. Aside form the 'Start' menu i honestly don't know what people don't like about it
Don't comment your code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to read!
I could get used to it, given a touch monitor. My 8,500+ users though... They just moved way too much of the cheese making it a support nightmare in a corporate environment. We'd have to ship a "How Do I..." guide with every machine we deploy to the desktop. Mostly on how to use a mouse with a "touch" O/S.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
I could get used to it, given a touch monitor. My 8,500+ users though... They just moved way too much of the cheese making it a support nightmare in a corporate environment. We'd have to ship a "How Do I..." guide with every machine we deploy to the desktop. Mostly on how to use a mouse with a "touch" O/S.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave KreskowiakOk, so its not so much personal taste and more of a support nightmare which i can understand. When you mention the touch monitor is that just for the new 'Start' menu? or all around use?
Don't comment your code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to read!
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Ok, so its not so much personal taste and more of a support nightmare which i can understand. When you mention the touch monitor is that just for the new 'Start' menu? or all around use?
Don't comment your code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to read!
It's personal taste too. I hate having two desktops. The touch monitor would be all-around if you were using a ton of Metro apps. Normal Desktop isn't so bad. It just needs the Start menu back. The swiping menu thing just makes it harder to find what you're looking for without extra mouse clicks.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
Two Words: Classic Shell[^].
<voice type="Ebeneezer Scrooge"> Bah. dumb bugs </voice>
Really! Advertising no breadcrumbs like that is a feature. :doh: Why not go back to running Windows 3.11 if you want the retro look and feel? :~ I know people are resistant to change but get real. Some changes are for the better.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
to build a Windows 8.1 machine at work. After 5 minutes of using it, I can honestly say I HATE it... with a passion... with extreme prejudice. No wonder this thing is failing in the market.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
I used to hate it, but I don't mind now. Its on my work machine. I wanted to hate it, but I realized that I spend about 95% of my day in Visual Studio and don't have to directly interact with it. When I do, it isn't that bad. I guess it depends on what you have to do with it. Learn some shortcut keys and focus your energy somewhere else. Hogan
I do agree with u Hogan!!It is actually the case of "Change" happening and few of the users dont want it to happen!!!
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to build a Windows 8.1 machine at work. After 5 minutes of using it, I can honestly say I HATE it... with a passion... with extreme prejudice. No wonder this thing is failing in the market.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave KreskowiakFor personal use the cheap Start8 program neuters Modern/Metro just fine for me, but I can well understand how, even with Start8 or something like it, supporting mobs of users of all skill levels across an enterprise would be a nightmare. Even using Start8, you can easily, by accident, get thrown back into the Modern tile-pit. A friend of mine, in her seventies, a world-class art-history of Asia expert, describes learning to use Modern on her new Win8 laptop as being like having to live in world where the English alphabet has been suddenly replaced with Egyptian hieroglyphics :) I'm trying to get her to buy and install Start8.
“The best hope is that one of these days the Ground will get disgusted enough just to walk away ~ leaving people with nothing more to stand ON than what they have so bloody well stood FOR up to now.” Kenneth Patchen, Poet
