Nature fights back
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McDonald's will only do that when forced to in order to put some nutritional value into their swill-buns.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
They have stuff that's got nutritional value? :)
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever! Rich Tennant 5th Wave
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to multiple Bacillus thuringiensis toxins And we eat this stuff. This should add fuel to the non-GMO fire. Marc
Through selective breeding and cross-breeding we've been genetically modifying organisms for thousands of years[^]. The sweetcorn we eat are GMOs. Domesticated cattle are GMOs. We eat GMOs all the time.
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
As noted in the report, there were supposed to be sacrificial stands of corn which would keep susceptible root-worm genes in the mix.
<quote> "Scientists proposed to the EPA that farms should consist of at least half non-Bt corn" </quote> Not a very good plan to have to sacrifice half your land! :doh:
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesThe idea is that the worms are greatly controlled by the GM's corn but they don't develop genetic resistance to the stuff. You're not sacrificing half your crop, per se. You're leaving half your crop to the more traditional* farming methods * Soaking them with toxins related very closely to nerve gas.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Instead of using pesticides again it would be cheaper just to package the worms as food, or has McDonalds already done that?
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever! Rich Tennant 5th Wave
Mike Hankey wrote:
Instead of using pesticides again it would be cheaper just to package the worms as food
We do eat caralillers as well as other insects here. Locust are my absolute favorite, followed by crickets. Silk worm (caterpillar) is a good too but lacks the crunch factor of the exoskeleton insect varieties. :-D
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Through selective breeding and cross-breeding we've been genetically modifying organisms for thousands of years[^]. The sweetcorn we eat are GMOs. Domesticated cattle are GMOs. We eat GMOs all the time.
viaducting wrote:
The sweetcorn we eat are GMOs. Domesticated cattle are GMOs. We eat GMOs all the time.
Well, I don't. I actually stay away from corn, choose non-GMO products (but who really knows if they are) and refuse to eat any beef other than from 100% grass fed cows raised by the local farmers around here whom I personally know. But given the cost of the beef, I don't eat much beef!
viaducting wrote:
Through selective breeding and cross-breeding we've been genetically modifying organisms for thousands of years[^].
True, but there's a difference between that and corn that's had specific genomes added to its DNA. Marc
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Mike Hankey wrote:
Instead of using pesticides again it would be cheaper just to package the worms as food
We do eat caralillers as well as other insects here. Locust are my absolute favorite, followed by crickets. Silk worm (caterpillar) is a good too but lacks the crunch factor of the exoskeleton insect varieties. :-D
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesIt's interesting what people in different regions of the world eat. I've heard insects are good for you!
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever! Rich Tennant 5th Wave
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They have stuff that's got nutritional value? :)
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever! Rich Tennant 5th Wave
Not according to what I wrote. True, I didn't explicitly state the bun had none. It may server as roughage. Probably not. It's always possible they slipped up somewhere. Perhaps the Ketchup? (per Ronald Regan's administration, ketchup counts as a school-lunch vegetable).
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Through selective breeding and cross-breeding we've been genetically modifying organisms for thousands of years[^]. The sweetcorn we eat are GMOs. Domesticated cattle are GMOs. We eat GMOs all the time.
True, but folk get nervous when the modification is done by "artificial" means. I have heard folk say that they don’t know what is in the genes of the GMO crops, as if they know what is in the genes of the “natural” crops.
Just because the code works, it doesn't mean that it is good code.
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viaducting wrote:
The sweetcorn we eat are GMOs. Domesticated cattle are GMOs. We eat GMOs all the time.
Well, I don't. I actually stay away from corn, choose non-GMO products (but who really knows if they are) and refuse to eat any beef other than from 100% grass fed cows raised by the local farmers around here whom I personally know. But given the cost of the beef, I don't eat much beef!
viaducting wrote:
Through selective breeding and cross-breeding we've been genetically modifying organisms for thousands of years[^].
True, but there's a difference between that and corn that's had specific genomes added to its DNA. Marc
Those who eat organic-only foods can do so only because most of us do not. In places without pesticides, vermin get half of the crop, which is smaller to begin with without the 'chemical' fertilizers. Now - with the world population in the Seven Billion range - how do you propose to feed everyone? Plant breeding the 'old fashioned way' is way too slow and chancy.
We can use other traditional methods to increase food production:
Chop down more rain-forests so we can plant crops on more land.
Spray lots more pesticides and 'chemical fertilizers'
Increase the food supply by not producing meat (10:1 feed:meat protein ratio)
Hope for a devastating plague to lower the population
Or, everyone's favorite
WAR !So - take your pick. Remember the scale of things. What will you do?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Not according to what I wrote. True, I didn't explicitly state the bun had none. It may server as roughage. Probably not. It's always possible they slipped up somewhere. Perhaps the Ketchup? (per Ronald Regan's administration, ketchup counts as a school-lunch vegetable).
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Yeah I remember that and all the fuss there was associated with it.
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever! Rich Tennant 5th Wave
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The idea is that the worms are greatly controlled by the GM's corn but they don't develop genetic resistance to the stuff. You're not sacrificing half your crop, per se. You're leaving half your crop to the more traditional* farming methods * Soaking them with toxins related very closely to nerve gas.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
You're leaving half your crop to the more traditional* farming methods
* Soaking them with toxins related very closely to nerve gas.Doesn't sound very appetizing. X| So I take it GMO is only half a solution.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
W∴ Balboos wrote:
You're leaving half your crop to the more traditional* farming methods
* Soaking them with toxins related very closely to nerve gas.Doesn't sound very appetizing. X| So I take it GMO is only half a solution.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesSee Below: http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4782069/Re-Nature-fights-back.aspx[^] Some other solutions are referenced, therein (a bit in this thread, actually) But seriously, if we didn't expend so much vegetable protein fattening animals for their meat, we'd have an enormous increase in available food without changing any farming conditions. An inevitable future, but I would care to predict when.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Those who eat organic-only foods can do so only because most of us do not. In places without pesticides, vermin get half of the crop, which is smaller to begin with without the 'chemical' fertilizers. Now - with the world population in the Seven Billion range - how do you propose to feed everyone? Plant breeding the 'old fashioned way' is way too slow and chancy.
We can use other traditional methods to increase food production:
Chop down more rain-forests so we can plant crops on more land.
Spray lots more pesticides and 'chemical fertilizers'
Increase the food supply by not producing meat (10:1 feed:meat protein ratio)
Hope for a devastating plague to lower the population
Or, everyone's favorite
WAR !So - take your pick. Remember the scale of things. What will you do?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Those who eat organic-only foods can do so only because most of us do not. In places without pesticides, vermin get half of the crop, which is smaller to begin with without the 'chemical' fertilizers.
Well, I will happily admit that not only am I not an expert in this field, but I certainly haven't studied the statistics to speak about it other than hearsay. That said, I'm surrounded by organic farmers and I have read a lot of information and talked to my farmer friends (some of them are my poker buddies, so I get to hear all sorts of stories) that with proper integration of different crops and healthy land management, they don't have pest issues. Also, do we really need to be eating so much meat? Most of the non-organic corn around here goes to feeding cattle -- they just let it dry up on the stalk before harvesting it. Waste of land and resources, in my opinion. So, an alternative that you didn't mention: people need to start eating lower down on the food chain: there's a lot more nutrients packed into a vegetable or fruit or leaf at a lot less cost than eating a piece of meat. But like I said, I've only been peripherally paying attention to all this stuff, so my objective evidence is not immediately at hand and I don't want to start a lounge war! Marc
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It's interesting what people in different regions of the world eat. I've heard insects are good for you!
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever! Rich Tennant 5th Wave
Mike Hankey wrote:
It's interesting what people in different regions of the world eat. I've heard insects are good for you!
There was a study at Khon Kaen University that measured protein content of insects. If I remember correctly it was around 25-26%. This is roughly twice the protein of beef and you don't have to spend any money or labor growing them. They have been consumed locally for a very long time as a protein supplement. It is estimated that in the tropics the biomass of insects is approximately equal to the biomass of mammals. Just try to imagine how many ants it would take to equal the biomass of one elephant and you will start to get a feeling of just how many insects we have here.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Corn-eating worm evolves to feed on GMO corn designed to kill it[^]
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Mike Hankey wrote:
It's interesting what people in different regions of the world eat. I've heard insects are good for you!
There was a study at Khon Kaen University that measured protein content of insects. If I remember correctly it was around 25-26%. This is roughly twice the protein of beef and you don't have to spend any money or labor growing them. They have been consumed locally for a very long time as a protein supplement. It is estimated that in the tropics the biomass of insects is approximately equal to the biomass of mammals. Just try to imagine how many ants it would take to equal the biomass of one elephant and you will start to get a feeling of just how many insects we have here.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesVery interesting!
JimmyRopes wrote:
Just try to imagine how many ants it would take to equal the biomass of one elephant
Similar to "Guess how many Jelly beans in the jar to win"! :)
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever! Rich Tennant 5th Wave
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See Below: http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4782069/Re-Nature-fights-back.aspx[^] Some other solutions are referenced, therein (a bit in this thread, actually) But seriously, if we didn't expend so much vegetable protein fattening animals for their meat, we'd have an enormous increase in available food without changing any farming conditions. An inevitable future, but I would care to predict when.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
if we didn't expend so much vegetable protein fattening animals for their meat, we'd have an enormous increase in available food without changing any farming conditions.
Where I live in Isan (tribal area in NE Thailand) we don't specifically grow crops to feed cows or buffalo. They forage along the banks of irrigation canals, along the side of tractor trails, in harvested rice paddies, etc. The cows are pretty skinny but they are healthy. The buffalo get pretty big on even these meager rations.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Those who eat organic-only foods can do so only because most of us do not. In places without pesticides, vermin get half of the crop, which is smaller to begin with without the 'chemical' fertilizers.
Well, I will happily admit that not only am I not an expert in this field, but I certainly haven't studied the statistics to speak about it other than hearsay. That said, I'm surrounded by organic farmers and I have read a lot of information and talked to my farmer friends (some of them are my poker buddies, so I get to hear all sorts of stories) that with proper integration of different crops and healthy land management, they don't have pest issues. Also, do we really need to be eating so much meat? Most of the non-organic corn around here goes to feeding cattle -- they just let it dry up on the stalk before harvesting it. Waste of land and resources, in my opinion. So, an alternative that you didn't mention: people need to start eating lower down on the food chain: there's a lot more nutrients packed into a vegetable or fruit or leaf at a lot less cost than eating a piece of meat. But like I said, I've only been peripherally paying attention to all this stuff, so my objective evidence is not immediately at hand and I don't want to start a lounge war! Marc
I need to agree with pretty much all you've written. It's been over forty years since I've eaten any kind of meat (or derivatives thereof), although my motives are not directly related to this conversation. I've seen some of the propositions for how one does the organic farming - and alas, much as it pains me - I admit that it takes the factory farming to be able to produce the massive amounts of food needed. My only little garden, oddly enough, is quasi-organic. I don't spray any pesticides but, although I put in manure an compost my garbage (compost is amazing), when I set each plant into the garden, it's on top of a dollop of synthetic fertilizers. But - my little 10x10 is only valid for this because it's not really sustenance crops. It's tomatoes, eggplant, and lots of hot peppers. Due to Hurricane Sandy, I didn't have a garden last year - but didn't go hungry, either. In most of the world, people don't have that luxury. Here's an interesting viewpoint to carry with you when listening to discussions of all sorts: how much their ideas are biased because their bellies are full each night. It's a lot easier to be idealistic when there's no life-and-death price tag attached.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Not according to what I wrote. True, I didn't explicitly state the bun had none. It may server as roughage. Probably not. It's always possible they slipped up somewhere. Perhaps the Ketchup? (per Ronald Regan's administration, ketchup counts as a school-lunch vegetable).
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
The bun is very specially designed, so it dissolves in your mouth. If you have eaten one recently, you might want to skip the next bit... Bun (and only the bun) ingredients list: "Enriched flour (bleached wheat flour, malted barley flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid, enzymes), water, high fructose corn syrup, sugar, yeast, soybean oil and/or partially hydrogenated soybean oil, contains 2% or less of the following: salt, calcium sulfate, calcium carbonate, wheat gluten, ammonium sulfate, ammonium chloride, dough conditioners (sodium stearoyl lactylate, datem, ascorbic acid, azodicarbonamide, mono- and diglycerides, ethoxylated monoglycerides, monocalcium phosphate, enzymes, guar gum, calcium peroxide, soy flour), calcium propionate and sodium propionate (preservatives), soy lecithin." (McVomits website, if you look really closely). The interesting bit is that technically, it's probably not a food - which is why it doesn't go mouldy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYyDXH1amic[^]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
if we didn't expend so much vegetable protein fattening animals for their meat, we'd have an enormous increase in available food without changing any farming conditions.
Where I live in Isan (tribal area in NE Thailand) we don't specifically grow crops to feed cows or buffalo. They forage along the banks of irrigation canals, along the side of tractor trails, in harvested rice paddies, etc. The cows are pretty skinny but they are healthy. The buffalo get pretty big on even these meager rations.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesThe point (my point) is that to sustain the meat-eating economy found in so much of the industrialized world, you can't raise your cattle and buffaloes along the roadside. It could never even touch the current level of demand. That's assuming there is any foliage left along the roadside!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
