Baristas
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n. Someone who makes coffee My morning executive flat white does seem to vary in quality. The coffee houses in London like to call the people who make them Baristas and apparently they have to undergo extensive training. The milk has to be just the right temperature you see, and as for the grinder, well, its so easy to get wrong. There's even an Australian place where they only have Australian Baristas (racists!) because apparently they are the best in the world. To be fair, I've had coffee in Australia and it is exceptionally good if you overlook the fundamental fact that coffee is an awful, awful drink. So, I was wondering opinions. Barista - overhyped nonsense or is there a real skill here? And here's the worrying truth, I probably spend about £1000/year on coffee from Pret-a-Manger and I don't even like the stuff.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
Being Australian and being from Melbourne in particular (the undisputed sanctuary of a good flat white - please ignore the Kiwi's in the back disputing this) I can comment with a certain authority. Yes, the Barista makes a huge difference. But only to a point. The cleanliness of the coffee machine is incredibly important and if the staff aren't really on top of it then you get a lot of bitter cfofee from the stale oil left in it. The milk makes a difference too: In Toronto it's incredibly hard to find a really decent microfoam because they do something unholy to the cows over here. I don't want to know what it is, but it renders the milk...odd. Then there are the beans themselves. Melbourne goes for a strong medium roast, typically, but over here they make the beans black as the ace of spades. It's truly 'orrible, akin to taking a Fillet Mignon and cooking it extra well-done. The Barristas can ensure they don't scorch the milk (this breaks down the proteins and makes the coffee bitter instead of sweet) and they can ensure the pull is good (too quick, no taste, too long, you start digging deep into the bean and getting the bitter bits). They can also ensure they don't have the shot sitting there going stale for 5 minutes while they adjust their attitude. If only they could adjust the people who want it extra hot with hazelnut syrup and whipped cream.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Being Australian and being from Melbourne in particular (the undisputed sanctuary of a good flat white - please ignore the Kiwi's in the back disputing this) I can comment with a certain authority. Yes, the Barista makes a huge difference. But only to a point. The cleanliness of the coffee machine is incredibly important and if the staff aren't really on top of it then you get a lot of bitter cfofee from the stale oil left in it. The milk makes a difference too: In Toronto it's incredibly hard to find a really decent microfoam because they do something unholy to the cows over here. I don't want to know what it is, but it renders the milk...odd. Then there are the beans themselves. Melbourne goes for a strong medium roast, typically, but over here they make the beans black as the ace of spades. It's truly 'orrible, akin to taking a Fillet Mignon and cooking it extra well-done. The Barristas can ensure they don't scorch the milk (this breaks down the proteins and makes the coffee bitter instead of sweet) and they can ensure the pull is good (too quick, no taste, too long, you start digging deep into the bean and getting the bitter bits). They can also ensure they don't have the shot sitting there going stale for 5 minutes while they adjust their attitude. If only they could adjust the people who want it extra hot with hazelnut syrup and whipped cream.
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
If only they could adjust shoot the people who want it extra hot with hazelnut syrup and whipped cream.
FTFY! And add in the Maple Syrup drinkers too!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Being Australian and being from Melbourne in particular (the undisputed sanctuary of a good flat white - please ignore the Kiwi's in the back disputing this) I can comment with a certain authority. Yes, the Barista makes a huge difference. But only to a point. The cleanliness of the coffee machine is incredibly important and if the staff aren't really on top of it then you get a lot of bitter cfofee from the stale oil left in it. The milk makes a difference too: In Toronto it's incredibly hard to find a really decent microfoam because they do something unholy to the cows over here. I don't want to know what it is, but it renders the milk...odd. Then there are the beans themselves. Melbourne goes for a strong medium roast, typically, but over here they make the beans black as the ace of spades. It's truly 'orrible, akin to taking a Fillet Mignon and cooking it extra well-done. The Barristas can ensure they don't scorch the milk (this breaks down the proteins and makes the coffee bitter instead of sweet) and they can ensure the pull is good (too quick, no taste, too long, you start digging deep into the bean and getting the bitter bits). They can also ensure they don't have the shot sitting there going stale for 5 minutes while they adjust their attitude. If only they could adjust the people who want it extra hot with hazelnut syrup and whipped cream.
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris, being from Ontario, I miss getting Tim Horton's coffee. Living in South Carolina, I occasionally get Dunkin' Donuts coffee (closest approximate to Tim Horton's). Now, since my taste for coffee was developed BEFORE Starbucks, etc, became all the rage, I probably don't appreciate the nuances as much as others might. Having said that, what do you think of Tim Horton's? Tim
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Being Australian and being from Melbourne in particular (the undisputed sanctuary of a good flat white - please ignore the Kiwi's in the back disputing this) I can comment with a certain authority. Yes, the Barista makes a huge difference. But only to a point. The cleanliness of the coffee machine is incredibly important and if the staff aren't really on top of it then you get a lot of bitter cfofee from the stale oil left in it. The milk makes a difference too: In Toronto it's incredibly hard to find a really decent microfoam because they do something unholy to the cows over here. I don't want to know what it is, but it renders the milk...odd. Then there are the beans themselves. Melbourne goes for a strong medium roast, typically, but over here they make the beans black as the ace of spades. It's truly 'orrible, akin to taking a Fillet Mignon and cooking it extra well-done. The Barristas can ensure they don't scorch the milk (this breaks down the proteins and makes the coffee bitter instead of sweet) and they can ensure the pull is good (too quick, no taste, too long, you start digging deep into the bean and getting the bitter bits). They can also ensure they don't have the shot sitting there going stale for 5 minutes while they adjust their attitude. If only they could adjust the people who want it extra hot with hazelnut syrup and whipped cream.
cheers Chris Maunder
Dennis Leary said it too: Coffee (NSFW, contains profanity)[^]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Chris, being from Ontario, I miss getting Tim Horton's coffee. Living in South Carolina, I occasionally get Dunkin' Donuts coffee (closest approximate to Tim Horton's). Now, since my taste for coffee was developed BEFORE Starbucks, etc, became all the rage, I probably don't appreciate the nuances as much as others might. Having said that, what do you think of Tim Horton's? Tim
My experience tells me they put crack in Timmies. It's pretty awful stuff and smells exactly like an old ashtray. It's truly bizarre. I can go for months without one, but if I lose control and pop in for a timbit or something and forget my Zen training and accidentally order a medium regular then I'm done. I need another. I need another the next day too. And the following days after that. Soon enough someone finds me lying in a back alley, shaking slightly, surrounded by empty Timmies cups.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Rob Philpott wrote:
And here's the worrying truth, I probably spend about £1000/year on coffee from Pret-a-Manger and I don't even like the stuff.
Have you heard of tea? "baristas' is, I feel, a name made up to help people being paid shite wages to feel better about themselves. I like coffee. I like it a lot and drink quite a bit (though mostly decaf these days) and the ones I make with instant taste the same, if not better, than a poncy, $3 coffee from Starfucks made by a spotty kid with attitude and tats.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
from Starfucks
I think that may be where you're going wrong. I love coffee, grind my own from beans (I would love to roast too, but that starts getting too labour-intensive) and use a good stove top espresso maker (Italian-style - they really know their coffee - see here[^]). I've yet to get better at any coffee shop in the UK.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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n. Someone who makes coffee My morning executive flat white does seem to vary in quality. The coffee houses in London like to call the people who make them Baristas and apparently they have to undergo extensive training. The milk has to be just the right temperature you see, and as for the grinder, well, its so easy to get wrong. There's even an Australian place where they only have Australian Baristas (racists!) because apparently they are the best in the world. To be fair, I've had coffee in Australia and it is exceptionally good if you overlook the fundamental fact that coffee is an awful, awful drink. So, I was wondering opinions. Barista - overhyped nonsense or is there a real skill here? And here's the worrying truth, I probably spend about £1000/year on coffee from Pret-a-Manger and I don't even like the stuff.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
I love coffee but can't stand Starbutt's coffee, if they got to go to class to learn how to make it then all I can say is what the hell do they learn?
Along with Antimatter and Dark Matter they've discovered the existence of Doesn't Matter which appears to have no effect on the universe whatsoever! Rich Tennant 5th Wave
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n. Someone who makes coffee My morning executive flat white does seem to vary in quality. The coffee houses in London like to call the people who make them Baristas and apparently they have to undergo extensive training. The milk has to be just the right temperature you see, and as for the grinder, well, its so easy to get wrong. There's even an Australian place where they only have Australian Baristas (racists!) because apparently they are the best in the world. To be fair, I've had coffee in Australia and it is exceptionally good if you overlook the fundamental fact that coffee is an awful, awful drink. So, I was wondering opinions. Barista - overhyped nonsense or is there a real skill here? And here's the worrying truth, I probably spend about £1000/year on coffee from Pret-a-Manger and I don't even like the stuff.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
According to my oldest daughter, who is a barista, yes, skill is involved. Not as much as when she does hair, but there is a difference between her and people who don't know what they're doing. (With the irony that I hate coffee, so I have no way of knowing first hand.)
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My experience tells me they put crack in Timmies. It's pretty awful stuff and smells exactly like an old ashtray. It's truly bizarre. I can go for months without one, but if I lose control and pop in for a timbit or something and forget my Zen training and accidentally order a medium regular then I'm done. I need another. I need another the next day too. And the following days after that. Soon enough someone finds me lying in a back alley, shaking slightly, surrounded by empty Timmies cups.
cheers Chris Maunder
Cream instead of milk. 50 years of brewing experience. And, only someone familiar with them calls it Timmies... (Darth Vader voice) Chris... come to the dark side... (end voice) You have been assimilated... you just don't want to admit it...
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Rob Philpott wrote:
And here's the worrying truth, I probably spend about £1000/year on coffee from Pret-a-Manger and I don't even like the stuff.
Have you heard of tea? "baristas' is, I feel, a name made up to help people being paid shite wages to feel better about themselves. I like coffee. I like it a lot and drink quite a bit (though mostly decaf these days) and the ones I make with instant taste the same, if not better, than a poncy, $3 coffee from Starfucks made by a spotty kid with attitude and tats.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
"baristas' is, I feel, a name made up
I thought it was Portuguese for 'Masters in Art History'?
I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Freedom doesn't mean the absence of things you don't like. Dave
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According to my oldest daughter, who is a barista, yes, skill is involved. Not as much as when she does hair, but there is a difference between her and people who don't know what they're doing. (With the irony that I hate coffee, so I have no way of knowing first hand.)
Joe Woodbury wrote:
According to my oldest daughter, who is a barista baristris
FTFY :-D
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
According to my oldest daughter, who is a barista baristris
FTFY :-D
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesActually, it is barista for males and females.
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Actually, it is barista for males and females.
I probably should have put the joke icon on that post. :-D
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Dennis Leary said it too: Coffee (NSFW, contains profanity)[^]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Being Australian and being from Melbourne in particular (the undisputed sanctuary of a good flat white - please ignore the Kiwi's in the back disputing this) I can comment with a certain authority. Yes, the Barista makes a huge difference. But only to a point. The cleanliness of the coffee machine is incredibly important and if the staff aren't really on top of it then you get a lot of bitter cfofee from the stale oil left in it. The milk makes a difference too: In Toronto it's incredibly hard to find a really decent microfoam because they do something unholy to the cows over here. I don't want to know what it is, but it renders the milk...odd. Then there are the beans themselves. Melbourne goes for a strong medium roast, typically, but over here they make the beans black as the ace of spades. It's truly 'orrible, akin to taking a Fillet Mignon and cooking it extra well-done. The Barristas can ensure they don't scorch the milk (this breaks down the proteins and makes the coffee bitter instead of sweet) and they can ensure the pull is good (too quick, no taste, too long, you start digging deep into the bean and getting the bitter bits). They can also ensure they don't have the shot sitting there going stale for 5 minutes while they adjust their attitude. If only they could adjust the people who want it extra hot with hazelnut syrup and whipped cream.
cheers Chris Maunder
I buy my beans in Hungary where they roast them just the way I like them. These live in the freezer until I need them and I grind fresh for each cup. Simples. By choice I'd go straight to double shots, but the management insists I have milk so it's a tablespoon of foam on top for me, Macchiato.
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Why do you feel they need to point out that a Leary clip contains swearing? It's like saying Paris has 'friends'.
There are (I am sure) Leary virgins, who need to be warned of these things, lest they have their speaker on loud at work... :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Cream instead of milk. 50 years of brewing experience. And, only someone familiar with them calls it Timmies... (Darth Vader voice) Chris... come to the dark side... (end voice) You have been assimilated... you just don't want to admit it...
Chris... come to the dark side...we have timbits... I am...so ashamed...
cheers Chris Maunder
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Being Australian and being from Melbourne in particular (the undisputed sanctuary of a good flat white - please ignore the Kiwi's in the back disputing this) I can comment with a certain authority. Yes, the Barista makes a huge difference. But only to a point. The cleanliness of the coffee machine is incredibly important and if the staff aren't really on top of it then you get a lot of bitter cfofee from the stale oil left in it. The milk makes a difference too: In Toronto it's incredibly hard to find a really decent microfoam because they do something unholy to the cows over here. I don't want to know what it is, but it renders the milk...odd. Then there are the beans themselves. Melbourne goes for a strong medium roast, typically, but over here they make the beans black as the ace of spades. It's truly 'orrible, akin to taking a Fillet Mignon and cooking it extra well-done. The Barristas can ensure they don't scorch the milk (this breaks down the proteins and makes the coffee bitter instead of sweet) and they can ensure the pull is good (too quick, no taste, too long, you start digging deep into the bean and getting the bitter bits). They can also ensure they don't have the shot sitting there going stale for 5 minutes while they adjust their attitude. If only they could adjust the people who want it extra hot with hazelnut syrup and whipped cream.
cheers Chris Maunder
I can't say anything about the US, Canada or Australie but I know it's tough to find the good coffee houses in the UK (for those who live in or near Reading, try Workhouse Coffee[^]). However I'd agree with what Chris has said, the difference between a real, trained professional barista using quality, clean equipment, consistent water quality, very precise teperatrures, pressures and tamping techniques vs. Costa, Starbucks and the rest is chalk and cheese. My next two purchases: Mazzer Mini[^] Izzo Alex Duetto MK IV[^]
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I can't say anything about the US, Canada or Australie but I know it's tough to find the good coffee houses in the UK (for those who live in or near Reading, try Workhouse Coffee[^]). However I'd agree with what Chris has said, the difference between a real, trained professional barista using quality, clean equipment, consistent water quality, very precise teperatrures, pressures and tamping techniques vs. Costa, Starbucks and the rest is chalk and cheese. My next two purchases: Mazzer Mini[^] Izzo Alex Duetto MK IV[^]
Nice! It's so hard to get decent steam pressure though from those small units. We have a rancilio which is good, but just not good enough.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Nice! It's so hard to get decent steam pressure though from those small units. We have a rancilio which is good, but just not good enough.
cheers Chris Maunder
Absolutely, but £5000 for a Marzocco[^] is a bit steep... and I'm not convinced the online roasters, specialist as they may be can do the roasting at a quality to make use of £5000's worth of coffee machine. I have the Gaggia Classic which is, more or less, the same as the Rancilio Silvia but really want to do the upgrade for the temperature stability and heat exchanger or dual boiler, the missus goes for latte (and I enjoy making proper microfoam) so the single boiler, no heat exhanger machines make life a bit of a faff!
