The question you should ask at your next interview...
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
That's an excellent idea.
Software Zen:
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
Bah! Go for the gusto. Here's my favorite -- from either side of the interview:
"Assume there are Plutonians. Assume there are elves. If the elves attacked Pluto without warning, tomorrow at 9 AM local time, which side would you be on?"
Note that there are three answers to that question, not two -- and perceiving the third is almost as important as choosing it.
Of course, if you think the above question would make you "look silly," the old fallback "Are your stools black and tarry?" is always available.
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
I've gotten very good at this one, through bitter experience of being grilled to within an inch of my life and then asked to write database layer code, or sit around hassling server admins for certificates and fill out forms... ALWAYS: 1. Ask to meet the team, maybe have lunch or coffee. 2. Ask to see some code, but accept that might not be an option 3. Ask to see the workspace. 4. Ask about the typical workday scenario, bug fixes etc. 5. Ask about how disputes are resolved. Usually your prospective boss is in the room. Use this to find out how he reacts to confrontation. 6. Ask about code standards and who is in charge of what goes into the codebase. Sometimes: Ask a curveball... Example; "So, say after this interview, we're both happy, we move forward, and I comne to work for TechCorp LLC. But, fast forward three months down the line, and I'm sitting in this office handing you my resignation letter. What's the most likely reason this has happened?" This is again a challenge to see if they react well. Be careful who you ask this one to though. If it's an old project, ask questions about how it came about. Get a good sense of the history of it. Old projects have a way of being cash cows, and this makes them cumbersome and unwieldy. Companies romanticize them.
I too dabbled in pacifism once.
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
The three question I always ask are: What's your beverage situation? (Do they provide free soda, or will I have to go to the corner deli for my Diet Coke needs) What provisions are there for my bicycle? (Is there is inside bike rack? Can I take it up the elevator and put it under my desk? (It folds)). Why is working here less evil than working at a bank? (Always interesting to see how creative their answers are)
Truth, James
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
I'm not sure how relevant that would be – every company has some good code they could bring out for such purposes, and most of what they actually work on will be under IP agreements so they can't show it to you until you join anyway, I'd think. Having a look at where the devs actually work so you can get a feel for the place and the people is the most important, I think. Here at my company our second stage 'interview' includes the prospective new employee doing some coding on a computer in our main dev office, so they get to see how we all work and whether they like the working environment.
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory Great! LOL!
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Comments on this. - Why do I want to see their code? i am being hired to help them write better code usually so it doesn't matter what it looks like now. I really only need a few things. Good quiet working conditions(dual monitors, comfy chair, bathroom somewhere close and clean(It has been an issue for a friend)), Training so that I can continue to grow and extend the team and myself, The Ability to make changes(Introduce Code Repository, Introduce formal testing) To setup things the way they should be setup. Don't overlook the ugly coding job with the boss who is willing to let you have the above. Especially if you get to setup the testing plans and the code repository and code reviews and builds and deploys. I have this now. Things are working well 3 years in. Mainly because I came into nothing but a nice window cube and a good machine and the willingness of my boss to let me get things setup correctly(according to ME). Now: The team works together, We share, we do code reviews. It was nice to just have people listen and to try to follow some standards and they were begging for standards and some consistency. Starting from scratch was AWESOME!
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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Comments on this. - Why do I want to see their code? i am being hired to help them write better code usually so it doesn't matter what it looks like now. I really only need a few things. Good quiet working conditions(dual monitors, comfy chair, bathroom somewhere close and clean(It has been an issue for a friend)), Training so that I can continue to grow and extend the team and myself, The Ability to make changes(Introduce Code Repository, Introduce formal testing) To setup things the way they should be setup. Don't overlook the ugly coding job with the boss who is willing to let you have the above. Especially if you get to setup the testing plans and the code repository and code reviews and builds and deploys. I have this now. Things are working well 3 years in. Mainly because I came into nothing but a nice window cube and a good machine and the willingness of my boss to let me get things setup correctly(according to ME). Now: The team works together, We share, we do code reviews. It was nice to just have people listen and to try to follow some standards and they were begging for standards and some consistency. Starting from scratch was AWESOME!
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
That is a good reason to see some code from the interviewers due to the nature of hiring. It might be tricky how to react when some ugly code is presented. The candidate would not want to offend the interviewers if he wants the job without showing "overly confident". In most cases, interviewers would want to see candidate's code to evaluate him.
TOMZ_KV
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Could be interesting to sit in on a code review. :cool:
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
Remind me - what's a code review ?
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
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Remind me - what's a code review ?
Code review? I forgot too.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
is like a building ... and the worst place to be is in the basement... I like to take jobs where the group (not the company) is in the basement -- because there is only one direction to go, and that's up, i.e. you can only make things better. so, I think the question to ask is: "when do you want me to start working?" I was listening to a TED talk by Chris Hadfield, and I believe his quote was: "There is no problem so bad that you can make it worse." :cool:
David
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
Why did the previous incumbent really leave ?
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Code review? I forgot too.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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Code review? I think it is a big musical show with lots of girls in bathing suits. At least that is what I remember from watching TMC :-D
Let's go with that then.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
Do you guys follow any ITIL methodologies and if so which functions do you implement and which tools do you use to help? This will show how joined up their thinking is from service requirement to delivery - the bits in-between should cover bug tracking etc etc...
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You know the bit where the interviewer(s) turn to the candidate and ask "Do you have any questions for us?" I think next time I'm going to ask to see some code. You see - as a developer the application source code is a very significant component of my working environment and if it is like the aftermath of an explosion in a Scrabble(tm) factory I'd rather not get involved.
You should have questions. They should not be overly combative. As an interviewer I want to hear: Do you have coding standards? What are you code reviews like? How are new developers brought up to speed? Do the developers go to lunch together? How much latitude will I have in getting my job done? and... How do you deal with conflicts that arise? How does management view development? Do you pick release dates or feature sets? How? That last question will tell you a LOT about the company. I had a company that BRAGGED that they took out a magazine ad BEFORE the software was ready to DRIVE the developers to work harder. I did NOT take the job, never would. BTW, it failed, and they actually soiled their name in the process...
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Indeed. One place I interviewed at asked me to see if I could find a bug in their code -- everything was a Singleton(!) -- one job I was glad to not get.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
One place I interviewed at asked me to see if I could find a bug in their code
One place I worked at, the owner ran ads saying he was looking for someone to take his place at running the company. He'd give them the tour and spend a day with them, at the end he'd ask, "How would you do things differently?" After the applicant had spilled his guts, hoping to get what he thought was going to be a high paying job, my boss would thank them and show them the door. The ad was a cheap way to get one day consultants and he'd have multiple applicants for each ad.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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Problem is, they might let you look at some of their code, but they won't you the code you're being hired to deal with.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
S Houghtelin wrote:
Problem is, they might let you look at some of their code, but they won't you the code you're being hired to deal with.
One place I applied to, they wouldn't even give me a hint as to what I'd be working on, for fear of revealing their next product. They would just quiz you about certain programming skills you had and your depth of knowledge. I did not mind not getting a call back.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.