How much computer illiterate were you when...
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Certainly no screen - teletype only.
One place I worked at - National Institute For Biological Standards and Controls, in the early eighties - had two "punch girls" who got a sheet of numbers from the biologists, punched them onto paper tape on an offline teletype, then used the screen based terminal to run them through the PDP 11. If there were any mistakes, the paper tape was carefully edited to fix it with a knife and sticky tape and it was retried. When the run was complete, the paper tape went back to the biologist who binned it. :sigh: Took me months to get permission to teach them to plug the teletype into the PDP11 and forgo the paper tape - with a box on the submission sheet saying "I want the tape!" Then about twenty minutes to get them actual terminals, a week later - since they threatened to go on strike unless they did! :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Define Computer Literacy. When I wrote my first program I could plug the Commodore 64 into the TV, turn it on, get to the bit to type in the code and then run it. There wasn't a lot else to do, I could also put the tapes for the games into the tape player to load and then start the games.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
Same here... only it was an Atari 400. I had a few programs written to audio tape that are lost to the ages. Probably taped over with White Lion or Def Leppard :doh: So I was very computer illiterate - the personal computer at that time would have been maybe a Heathkit that you built from the ground up, but that was not my level of dedication. First program? I remember staying up late getting my name to march around the screen in different ways. Good times. Good times *sigh*
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One place I worked at - National Institute For Biological Standards and Controls, in the early eighties - had two "punch girls" who got a sheet of numbers from the biologists, punched them onto paper tape on an offline teletype, then used the screen based terminal to run them through the PDP 11. If there were any mistakes, the paper tape was carefully edited to fix it with a knife and sticky tape and it was retried. When the run was complete, the paper tape went back to the biologist who binned it. :sigh: Took me months to get permission to teach them to plug the teletype into the PDP11 and forgo the paper tape - with a box on the submission sheet saying "I want the tape!" Then about twenty minutes to get them actual terminals, a week later - since they threatened to go on strike unless they did! :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
At school we would often find that the paper tape would tangle as it was feeding into the reader on the ASR33 (no hopper to contain the tape) so we would clip the tape into the reader then lead the tape across the room and open a window and drop the tape out - the computer room was on the 3rd floor - so that it wasn't all coiled up. As it fed out of the reader (low speed 110 baud phone line meant this was a tedious process) we would roll it back up by hand and store the tapes in pipe tobacco tins (conveniently, the computer science teacher smoked a pipe).
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...you wrote your first program? In my case, I had no idea what operating system is. I did not knew I was using windows. Hell, I could not even start a computer. It was really scary. However, if someone could open the "black screen" for me, I could write C++ programs for them. This was the state for a long time. I was proud of myself thinking I could do anything in C++ but had no clue how to reach that black screen. I say anything as I was easily able to understand concept of pointer and templates and was even able to do graphics code. I thought I was awesome back then in year 2000. How about you? Edit: The sole purpose of this post is to feel young. ;P
I was 8 in the start of eighteens, with my brother's brand new Commodore 64, when he was out to play football... :-) I didn't speak any word in english, and all user manual was ONLY in english. I started to learn English because I saw the results of keywords when I wrote programs...
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Literacy as in knowing basic user operations before going to programming. For instance, knowing what left and right click is. I, for one, had no clue when I wrote programs for first few months.
Click? I wrote my first program on a Teletype creating a punched paper tape. It was done that way because it cost too much to develop it while connected to the timesharing service via an acoustic coupler. I think we had the high speed 300 baud version.
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...you wrote your first program? In my case, I had no idea what operating system is. I did not knew I was using windows. Hell, I could not even start a computer. It was really scary. However, if someone could open the "black screen" for me, I could write C++ programs for them. This was the state for a long time. I was proud of myself thinking I could do anything in C++ but had no clue how to reach that black screen. I say anything as I was easily able to understand concept of pointer and templates and was even able to do graphics code. I thought I was awesome back then in year 2000. How about you? Edit: The sole purpose of this post is to feel young. ;P
I wrote a sorting program on a Flexowriter and fed the paper tape it into EDSAC 2 at Cambridge University c. 1963. All that I knew about computers was from popular reading about "electronic brains" and the lectures I received from Maurice Wilkes - great researcher but very boring teacher! So I guess I was pretty illiterate!
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...you wrote your first program? In my case, I had no idea what operating system is. I did not knew I was using windows. Hell, I could not even start a computer. It was really scary. However, if someone could open the "black screen" for me, I could write C++ programs for them. This was the state for a long time. I was proud of myself thinking I could do anything in C++ but had no clue how to reach that black screen. I say anything as I was easily able to understand concept of pointer and templates and was even able to do graphics code. I thought I was awesome back then in year 2000. How about you? Edit: The sole purpose of this post is to feel young. ;P
OK, if we skip over my TRS-80 Basic days, and some assembler, we get to my first C program. It was a port of an assembler for a dedicated terminal, to be written in C for an IBM PC. Now, at that time, Beyond "printf", I had know idea at all about the C standard library, particularly, I knew nothing about malloc & free, so everything was hard allocated as module level variables. I wrote at length about it before: http://herbsutter.com/2011/10/16/your-first-c-program/#comment-3822[^] I also dug up the source code to my SECOND major C program (circa 1989), and posted in on GitHub: https://github.com/jamescurran/HonestIllusion/tree/master/PCT[^]
Truth, James
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At school we would often find that the paper tape would tangle as it was feeding into the reader on the ASR33 (no hopper to contain the tape) so we would clip the tape into the reader then lead the tape across the room and open a window and drop the tape out - the computer room was on the 3rd floor - so that it wasn't all coiled up. As it fed out of the reader (low speed 110 baud phone line meant this was a tedious process) we would roll it back up by hand and store the tapes in pipe tobacco tins (conveniently, the computer science teacher smoked a pipe).
And as you hand fed the tape back into a roll you got paper cuts between your thumb and index finger! :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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...you wrote your first program? In my case, I had no idea what operating system is. I did not knew I was using windows. Hell, I could not even start a computer. It was really scary. However, if someone could open the "black screen" for me, I could write C++ programs for them. This was the state for a long time. I was proud of myself thinking I could do anything in C++ but had no clue how to reach that black screen. I say anything as I was easily able to understand concept of pointer and templates and was even able to do graphics code. I thought I was awesome back then in year 2000. How about you? Edit: The sole purpose of this post is to feel young. ;P
Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away... we technicians were allowed to learn some programming in our free time. Fortran and punch cards of course. So me and a buddy wrote a 'game of life' program that printed the generation patterns on a line printer. We destroyed several trees worth of paper. Now at 71, I still program for fun... (Win 7, C#, intel i7, almost no printing)
73
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And as you hand fed the tape back into a roll you got paper cuts between your thumb and index finger! :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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The old VAX eh? THats even before my time! :) Sinclair Spectrum and the BBC were the first computers I came across. They were rare beasts before then, very rare.
The PDP was before the VAX, both by DEC. The PDP was the processor that gave birth to the C programming language. When I learned the MACRO-11 Assembler in High School, I did not realize I was learning C. The best ASSEMBLY EVER. Even though we had paper terminals. We had 3 "CRTs", which I quickly started using. Learning that the OS was just a program. That was the moment the light went on. We used RSTS/E Operating System, and by by the time I graduated High School, I had patched the OS in numerous ways (Hidden Files, bypassing NOLOGON) Crazy Times. But I learned how to do so much with that system. Oh, and in homage to VB programmers everywhere, this OS used BASIC Plus for almost all of the system library programs (Login, Logout). They did this by using a weird concept of Interrupts called System function calls. A$ = sys( chr$(6)+ "..." ) It took a single string, the first character was like the interrupt jump table byte (which function), and the rest of the string was parsed. So, 6 for system function, then like a 5 for Kill job, then the job number converted to a string. Really cool Radix50. Wow, that brought back too many memories from 1984-1985...
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Anymore use of TLA's and I will have head out for a KFC!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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The PDP was before the VAX, both by DEC. The PDP was the processor that gave birth to the C programming language. When I learned the MACRO-11 Assembler in High School, I did not realize I was learning C. The best ASSEMBLY EVER. Even though we had paper terminals. We had 3 "CRTs", which I quickly started using. Learning that the OS was just a program. That was the moment the light went on. We used RSTS/E Operating System, and by by the time I graduated High School, I had patched the OS in numerous ways (Hidden Files, bypassing NOLOGON) Crazy Times. But I learned how to do so much with that system. Oh, and in homage to VB programmers everywhere, this OS used BASIC Plus for almost all of the system library programs (Login, Logout). They did this by using a weird concept of Interrupts called System function calls. A$ = sys( chr$(6)+ "..." ) It took a single string, the first character was like the interrupt jump table byte (which function), and the rest of the string was parsed. So, 6 for system function, then like a 5 for Kill job, then the job number converted to a string. Really cool Radix50. Wow, that brought back too many memories from 1984-1985...
That is pretty cool actually. I love this kind of stuff, digging round in the guts of the machine,. its why I write drivers, and why I prefer Linux to Windows, though I have done a lot more on WIndows, you are closer to the real machine. User mode stuff just makes me angry. All you are dealing with is someone elses rules, someone elses wrapper, and someone elses limitations. Working down with the hardware, having to take into account electrical states, ,that's where the fun is./ :)
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Oh yes - initially. You soon learnt how to roll it without getting the cuts.
...until you hit a join and it shaved your fingers... And the Mylar versions were worse: stronger, stiffer and sharper. Would you believe I think I still have a tape repair tool in the attic? :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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...you wrote your first program? In my case, I had no idea what operating system is. I did not knew I was using windows. Hell, I could not even start a computer. It was really scary. However, if someone could open the "black screen" for me, I could write C++ programs for them. This was the state for a long time. I was proud of myself thinking I could do anything in C++ but had no clue how to reach that black screen. I say anything as I was easily able to understand concept of pointer and templates and was even able to do graphics code. I thought I was awesome back then in year 2000. How about you? Edit: The sole purpose of this post is to feel young. ;P
d@nish wrote:
Edit: The sole purpose of this post is to feel young.
You achieved the opposite: When I wrote my first program, windows didn't exist, C++ didn't exist. I did now what an OS was, however: I had the commented assembly listing on my desk! ;P
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto) Point in case: http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/02/apple_gotofail_lessons[^]
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d@nish wrote:
Edit: The sole purpose of this post is to feel young.
You achieved the opposite: When I wrote my first program, windows didn't exist, C++ didn't exist. I did now what an OS was, however: I had the commented assembly listing on my desk! ;P
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto) Point in case: http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/02/apple_gotofail_lessons[^]
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Same here... only it was an Atari 400. I had a few programs written to audio tape that are lost to the ages. Probably taped over with White Lion or Def Leppard :doh: So I was very computer illiterate - the personal computer at that time would have been maybe a Heathkit that you built from the ground up, but that was not my level of dedication. First program? I remember staying up late getting my name to march around the screen in different ways. Good times. Good times *sigh*
Nice musical references!
Ed Bouras wrote:
White Lion or Def Leppard
I did mine on a TI-99/4a. It was great until the cassette interface/modem quit working. I could still write BASIC programs to solve physics and math homework problems...I just couldn't save them...and I couldn't create save points in the Scott Adam's Adventure games. SAV GAM :) Damn good times!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Nice musical references!
Ed Bouras wrote:
White Lion or Def Leppard
I did mine on a TI-99/4a. It was great until the cassette interface/modem quit working. I could still write BASIC programs to solve physics and math homework problems...I just couldn't save them...and I couldn't create save points in the Scott Adam's Adventure games. SAV GAM :) Damn good times!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
Heh. Of course those was my musically misguided years... before I discovered the awesomeness of Rush! I think there are a few Canadian CP'ers here who would agree with that assessment ;) I think my neighbor had a TI-99 that we used to play Tunnels of DoomClickety[] on. Loved that game!
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...you wrote your first program? In my case, I had no idea what operating system is. I did not knew I was using windows. Hell, I could not even start a computer. It was really scary. However, if someone could open the "black screen" for me, I could write C++ programs for them. This was the state for a long time. I was proud of myself thinking I could do anything in C++ but had no clue how to reach that black screen. I say anything as I was easily able to understand concept of pointer and templates and was even able to do graphics code. I thought I was awesome back then in year 2000. How about you? Edit: The sole purpose of this post is to feel young. ;P
My buddy who got me started on computers had given me the book on assembler programming a PDP-8. For two weeks I struggled, trying to understand registers, opcodes, and binary. He and his buddy took me to the computer center and while he was off doing something on another computer, his buddy says, "Psst, wanna write a program?" He started FOCAL and had me type
1.1 Type "HELLO."
Now type "GO" and press Return. It printed
HELLO
I yelled, "THAT'S IT? That's all I have to do?!?" And I was off to the races.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
