Disgruntled employees
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"If they'd just leave me alone so I could do what I DO." was one of my big ones. Stated with callous honesty: "I'd get so much more work done if it weren't for the damn users." That was something the big banks always had over the small shops. We had project managers and business analysts to keep the developers left alone. BUT that was at the cost of some world class institutionalized crazy.
I guess we're left alone a little too much, there's no real control over who does what. There's organized chaos... and then there's what we're doing... disorganized chaos... :laugh:
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I guess we're left alone a little too much, there's no real control over who does what. There's organized chaos... and then there's what we're doing... disorganized chaos... :laugh:
Sounds like the multiple-customer problem. "Can't you just..." no. "This should be easy" then you do it. The peculiar reversal of easy things seeming impossible and impossible things seeming trivial to customers continues to blow my mind. I had a big fight to finally get to the point where I could tell A that I was working on something for B and if A's project was really more important, that they'd have to get someone to decide that and get back to me. They can't demand you take the responsibility for prioritizing (much less owning) what you do and don't do without giving you the authority to make the decision and dictate the priority. Otherwise that job is someone else's, like it is in my case. "Give me the authority to tell people no and I'll sort ALL of this out in about 20 minutes." "I can't do that." "That's fine. Here's my task list with estimates. Sort it for me. I'll give everyone the bad news." "but..." "but what?" *manager nods with resignation* A bit more curt in the retelling, to be sure.
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Sounds like the multiple-customer problem. "Can't you just..." no. "This should be easy" then you do it. The peculiar reversal of easy things seeming impossible and impossible things seeming trivial to customers continues to blow my mind. I had a big fight to finally get to the point where I could tell A that I was working on something for B and if A's project was really more important, that they'd have to get someone to decide that and get back to me. They can't demand you take the responsibility for prioritizing (much less owning) what you do and don't do without giving you the authority to make the decision and dictate the priority. Otherwise that job is someone else's, like it is in my case. "Give me the authority to tell people no and I'll sort ALL of this out in about 20 minutes." "I can't do that." "That's fine. Here's my task list with estimates. Sort it for me. I'll give everyone the bad news." "but..." "but what?" *manager nods with resignation* A bit more curt in the retelling, to be sure.
AMEN! :laugh:
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I'm pretty happy. As I said in the thread earlier today, you can't expect everything to be peaches and cream, but you can expect the people you work with to be pleasant and fun, the company not to impose annoying bureaucracy or unreasonable management pressures, to treat people fairly and for the working environment to be good. If that's not the case in your company then it's perhaps time to think about moving on. Experienced developers are still in demand so unlike most of the population we still have that choice.
BobJanova wrote:
Experienced developers are still in demand so unlike most of the population we still have that choice.
That and everything else in your post has convinced me at last. It really is time to move on. Or as Popeye said: "This is all I can stand, I can stands no more!" Thanks!
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
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I am fairly gruntled.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
I tend not to stay at a job long after they crush my gruntle.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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Are you guys generally pretty happy at work (all around satisfied)? ...I think I find myself on the other end of the spectrum more often than not, so I'm wondering if it's time to move on. Although, being satisfied in the work place is no easy task, so I'm wondering if I'm just taking on the "grass is greener on the other side" way of thinking. I've been at this particular company for about 3 years but working on the same projects for about 8 (company has gone through a handful of owners). I love what I do, but the company... not so sure. Seems like quite a handful of disgruntled employees too, it's not just me, so I'm wondering if it's just the work environment.
Sir Edward Grey, the Foreign Secretary of England during World War I, wrote in his memoirs that "Happiness consists of having all that one wants and none of what one does not want." This applies to one's work environment as well as anywhere else. Accordingly, the key to happiness at work has three components:
- Work at something you enjoy for its own sake;
- Establish adequately comfortable conditions in which to do it;
- Contrive to screen out irrelevancies, distractions, and intrusions.
In a corporate-employment setting, items 2 and 3 can be a challenge. Item 2 can sometimes be partially covered out of one's own pocket, but there are limits; few of us are willing (or able) to purchase our own cubicle furniture or computers. Item 3 is the toughest of the nuts by far.
Most dissatisfaction among software people arises from managerial and supervisory sources. It's not just schedule and deadline pressure, either. Managers and supervisors sometimes seem incapable of letting an engineer do his work without sticking all their appendages into it. They're "above" the lowly practitioner, they "think," and therefore have a right and a duty to perform frequent layings-on of their sacred hands to "ensure quality." That can drive just about anyone to despair, drink, or on occasion, violence.
I've come to regard the front-line supervisor -- i.e., he who directly supervises working engineers, and might well still be technically hands-on himself -- as the optimal spot for the solution to this problem. If he can be persuaded to fulfill three functions:
- Give his people clear and specific tasks to perform;
- Stay away from them as much as possible while they're working;
- Rigidly exclude all "higher-level" management from their work environment, except for "ceremonial" occasions scheduled well in advance;
...his engineers' working conditions can be brought as near to optimal as capital budgets permit.
Finding such a supervisor is not easy. He must be smart, humane, results-oriented, and very tough. For his engineers to retrain one who possesses the "raw material" but is not yet enlightened can be just as hard. But the alternatives are all unsatisfactory.
I try to be such a supervisor. It often demands more humility than I naturally possess. That highly unappreciated and increasingly rare virtue might well be the critical factor -- and can anyone sincerely say he's sufficiently humble?
Don't all answer -- or laugh -- at o
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Sir Edward Grey, the Foreign Secretary of England during World War I, wrote in his memoirs that "Happiness consists of having all that one wants and none of what one does not want." This applies to one's work environment as well as anywhere else. Accordingly, the key to happiness at work has three components:
- Work at something you enjoy for its own sake;
- Establish adequately comfortable conditions in which to do it;
- Contrive to screen out irrelevancies, distractions, and intrusions.
In a corporate-employment setting, items 2 and 3 can be a challenge. Item 2 can sometimes be partially covered out of one's own pocket, but there are limits; few of us are willing (or able) to purchase our own cubicle furniture or computers. Item 3 is the toughest of the nuts by far.
Most dissatisfaction among software people arises from managerial and supervisory sources. It's not just schedule and deadline pressure, either. Managers and supervisors sometimes seem incapable of letting an engineer do his work without sticking all their appendages into it. They're "above" the lowly practitioner, they "think," and therefore have a right and a duty to perform frequent layings-on of their sacred hands to "ensure quality." That can drive just about anyone to despair, drink, or on occasion, violence.
I've come to regard the front-line supervisor -- i.e., he who directly supervises working engineers, and might well still be technically hands-on himself -- as the optimal spot for the solution to this problem. If he can be persuaded to fulfill three functions:
- Give his people clear and specific tasks to perform;
- Stay away from them as much as possible while they're working;
- Rigidly exclude all "higher-level" management from their work environment, except for "ceremonial" occasions scheduled well in advance;
...his engineers' working conditions can be brought as near to optimal as capital budgets permit.
Finding such a supervisor is not easy. He must be smart, humane, results-oriented, and very tough. For his engineers to retrain one who possesses the "raw material" but is not yet enlightened can be just as hard. But the alternatives are all unsatisfactory.
I try to be such a supervisor. It often demands more humility than I naturally possess. That highly unappreciated and increasingly rare virtue might well be the critical factor -- and can anyone sincerely say he's sufficiently humble?
Don't all answer -- or laugh -- at o
Fran Porretto wrote:
Contrive to screen out irrelevancies, distractions, and intrusions.
Think that's the one we're definitely lacking here... X|
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Are you guys generally pretty happy at work (all around satisfied)? ...I think I find myself on the other end of the spectrum more often than not, so I'm wondering if it's time to move on. Although, being satisfied in the work place is no easy task, so I'm wondering if I'm just taking on the "grass is greener on the other side" way of thinking. I've been at this particular company for about 3 years but working on the same projects for about 8 (company has gone through a handful of owners). I love what I do, but the company... not so sure. Seems like quite a handful of disgruntled employees too, it's not just me, so I'm wondering if it's just the work environment.
I always work to change the environment for the better. I would try that before I just left. Some suggestions are: 1) work on a motto that you repeat often, and hope others follow. One of ours was "Every Day, make something better" 2) Learn to redirect the disgruntled conversations. Using improv techniques, say YES and redirect. Example: (John walks in and starts his morning rant... Reply: John, I agree things have not been perfect, and I want to find more joy in my work and working with you... Can we leave the past in the past and focus on 3 great things. First, we have jobs doing what we like. Second, we get to choose how awesome of a job we do every day, and third, we get a choice to focus on the past and feel miserable or the future and help each other learn and have a good time... Which of those 3 would help you feel better about being here, and help me be more productive and enjoy this job more?) 3) Step Up. Add something FUN to the Culture. I once brought in Karate Blocking sticks (big foam on bats), and we called them Feature Sticks... (Threatening to beat people for coming up with new features, and the occasional beating did take place. Quite funny because it did not hurt, but it let us express frustration). Honestly, wherever you go, there you are. Make a difference while you are there. I found that simply finding a POSITIVE way to talk about it with the people around me. People at my level, below AND above. Little things like sitting down with an antagonist and saying "Nothing personal, but I LIKED YOU BETTER when you did not complain all the time. Is there anything I can do to help you get back there?" And if all that fails, move on, knowing you did your best... Life is WAY TOO SHORT to suffer through it. I am one of the luckiest people in the world because I get PAID to do what I would probably do for free!
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I always work to change the environment for the better. I would try that before I just left. Some suggestions are: 1) work on a motto that you repeat often, and hope others follow. One of ours was "Every Day, make something better" 2) Learn to redirect the disgruntled conversations. Using improv techniques, say YES and redirect. Example: (John walks in and starts his morning rant... Reply: John, I agree things have not been perfect, and I want to find more joy in my work and working with you... Can we leave the past in the past and focus on 3 great things. First, we have jobs doing what we like. Second, we get to choose how awesome of a job we do every day, and third, we get a choice to focus on the past and feel miserable or the future and help each other learn and have a good time... Which of those 3 would help you feel better about being here, and help me be more productive and enjoy this job more?) 3) Step Up. Add something FUN to the Culture. I once brought in Karate Blocking sticks (big foam on bats), and we called them Feature Sticks... (Threatening to beat people for coming up with new features, and the occasional beating did take place. Quite funny because it did not hurt, but it let us express frustration). Honestly, wherever you go, there you are. Make a difference while you are there. I found that simply finding a POSITIVE way to talk about it with the people around me. People at my level, below AND above. Little things like sitting down with an antagonist and saying "Nothing personal, but I LIKED YOU BETTER when you did not complain all the time. Is there anything I can do to help you get back there?" And if all that fails, move on, knowing you did your best... Life is WAY TOO SHORT to suffer through it. I am one of the luckiest people in the world because I get PAID to do what I would probably do for free!
Kudos for the positivity you bring to the table... I would love to work with people like that. :thumbsup:
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Are you guys generally pretty happy at work (all around satisfied)? ...I think I find myself on the other end of the spectrum more often than not, so I'm wondering if it's time to move on. Although, being satisfied in the work place is no easy task, so I'm wondering if I'm just taking on the "grass is greener on the other side" way of thinking. I've been at this particular company for about 3 years but working on the same projects for about 8 (company has gone through a handful of owners). I love what I do, but the company... not so sure. Seems like quite a handful of disgruntled employees too, it's not just me, so I'm wondering if it's just the work environment.
Only you can know what's important to you. Identify the things which ungruntle you, and decide if a) they are something you can possibly hope to remedy and b) they are a dealbreaker for you. If your answers are no and yes, you oughta move on. To answer your question, at this point, I'm partially gruntled. I'm fortunate enough to work with an excellent product owner-type person, and I largely manage/direct/implement our project with him. However, that has its stresses too and isn't for everyone. From the outside looking in, it seems as if our other projects are chaos. I don't feel we have particularly good management at any level--more of the "who's yelling loudest" approach to prioritization rather than cogent analysis of problems. I'm not at the point of "I want to GTFO", but maybe I should start poking around. IDK.
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Only you can know what's important to you. Identify the things which ungruntle you, and decide if a) they are something you can possibly hope to remedy and b) they are a dealbreaker for you. If your answers are no and yes, you oughta move on. To answer your question, at this point, I'm partially gruntled. I'm fortunate enough to work with an excellent product owner-type person, and I largely manage/direct/implement our project with him. However, that has its stresses too and isn't for everyone. From the outside looking in, it seems as if our other projects are chaos. I don't feel we have particularly good management at any level--more of the "who's yelling loudest" approach to prioritization rather than cogent analysis of problems. I'm not at the point of "I want to GTFO", but maybe I should start poking around. IDK.
I've been trying to remedy the situation, but I'm not sure people in power want to hear it. I'm actually a "product manager" as well as engineer and developer which sort of just means that I manage my own product and anyone else working on it. It keeps me somewhat separated from the rest of the madness but it's still hard to deal with sometimes, specially when I need to interact with other people, since there's no clear organizational structure. I can't tell people what to do really... yet, we're expected to work together... but I have no clue as to what their priorities are. When things don't get finished, all I can do is shrug my shoulders since I'm expected to keep tabs on projects with no authority. No one reports to anyone, and no one is completely sure of what others are doing... hence the madness.
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Are you guys generally pretty happy at work (all around satisfied)? ...I think I find myself on the other end of the spectrum more often than not, so I'm wondering if it's time to move on. Although, being satisfied in the work place is no easy task, so I'm wondering if I'm just taking on the "grass is greener on the other side" way of thinking. I've been at this particular company for about 3 years but working on the same projects for about 8 (company has gone through a handful of owners). I love what I do, but the company... not so sure. Seems like quite a handful of disgruntled employees too, it's not just me, so I'm wondering if it's just the work environment.
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before I became self employed I don't think I ever worked at any place where there wasn't disgruntled employee's
That's why I'm hesitant to jump ship... I know the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
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Sir Edward Grey, the Foreign Secretary of England during World War I, wrote in his memoirs that "Happiness consists of having all that one wants and none of what one does not want." This applies to one's work environment as well as anywhere else. Accordingly, the key to happiness at work has three components:
- Work at something you enjoy for its own sake;
- Establish adequately comfortable conditions in which to do it;
- Contrive to screen out irrelevancies, distractions, and intrusions.
In a corporate-employment setting, items 2 and 3 can be a challenge. Item 2 can sometimes be partially covered out of one's own pocket, but there are limits; few of us are willing (or able) to purchase our own cubicle furniture or computers. Item 3 is the toughest of the nuts by far.
Most dissatisfaction among software people arises from managerial and supervisory sources. It's not just schedule and deadline pressure, either. Managers and supervisors sometimes seem incapable of letting an engineer do his work without sticking all their appendages into it. They're "above" the lowly practitioner, they "think," and therefore have a right and a duty to perform frequent layings-on of their sacred hands to "ensure quality." That can drive just about anyone to despair, drink, or on occasion, violence.
I've come to regard the front-line supervisor -- i.e., he who directly supervises working engineers, and might well still be technically hands-on himself -- as the optimal spot for the solution to this problem. If he can be persuaded to fulfill three functions:
- Give his people clear and specific tasks to perform;
- Stay away from them as much as possible while they're working;
- Rigidly exclude all "higher-level" management from their work environment, except for "ceremonial" occasions scheduled well in advance;
...his engineers' working conditions can be brought as near to optimal as capital budgets permit.
Finding such a supervisor is not easy. He must be smart, humane, results-oriented, and very tough. For his engineers to retrain one who possesses the "raw material" but is not yet enlightened can be just as hard. But the alternatives are all unsatisfactory.
I try to be such a supervisor. It often demands more humility than I naturally possess. That highly unappreciated and increasingly rare virtue might well be the critical factor -- and can anyone sincerely say he's sufficiently humble?
Don't all answer -- or laugh -- at o
I used to be humble. But it's not realistic. Or practical. Many managers are like wolves. They won't respect you if you're humble. But let's get to some important aspects of the problem that hasn't been discussed yet: 1. Most managers are technically illiterate and thus not really competent to manage technical people. 2. Many (some?) developers are technically gifted and/or brilliant and managers have no clue on how to handle them nicely and use them effectively and productively. - The heart of this matter could be said to really be: "How can a person much less intelligent than you adequately manage you?" Or..."Life is hard when you work for people that are much less intelligent and creative than yourself." 3. Corporate work environments stink. I could elaborate on each...But let's see if any of these strike a resonance with any of you first. - Grant
Cary Grant "Swimming with Cinderblocks" Anderson
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Are you guys generally pretty happy at work (all around satisfied)? ...I think I find myself on the other end of the spectrum more often than not, so I'm wondering if it's time to move on. Although, being satisfied in the work place is no easy task, so I'm wondering if I'm just taking on the "grass is greener on the other side" way of thinking. I've been at this particular company for about 3 years but working on the same projects for about 8 (company has gone through a handful of owners). I love what I do, but the company... not so sure. Seems like quite a handful of disgruntled employees too, it's not just me, so I'm wondering if it's just the work environment.
Hopefully you're using a fake name for this, unless you don't care if your employer sees it.
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Hopefully you're using a fake name for this, unless you don't care if your employer sees it.
Lol, Ive been on this site for years.. Plus I'm sure they know people are unhappy with the lack of organization. Like I said, I love the work I do but the stress of everything else can be overbearing.
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Are you guys generally pretty happy at work (all around satisfied)? ...I think I find myself on the other end of the spectrum more often than not, so I'm wondering if it's time to move on. Although, being satisfied in the work place is no easy task, so I'm wondering if I'm just taking on the "grass is greener on the other side" way of thinking. I've been at this particular company for about 3 years but working on the same projects for about 8 (company has gone through a handful of owners). I love what I do, but the company... not so sure. Seems like quite a handful of disgruntled employees too, it's not just me, so I'm wondering if it's just the work environment.
Nine years with my current company. I've seen it go from 40 people sitting at a large bench in a single room to 200+ people in a six story office building. It's had ups and downs and it wouldn't be my first choice of industry but the single thing that makes this job stand out is that the company is highly profitable. That translates to perks, bonuses, a very positive environment and long term retention of the really good people.
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Nine years with my current company. I've seen it go from 40 people sitting at a large bench in a single room to 200+ people in a six story office building. It's had ups and downs and it wouldn't be my first choice of industry but the single thing that makes this job stand out is that the company is highly profitable. That translates to perks, bonuses, a very positive environment and long term retention of the really good people.
We used to have all sorts of perks... but now it seems all that has disappeared. I don't really mind, but they really need to figure out better ways of keeping morale high and things at least somewhat organized. I guess it's been a roller-coaster ride working here. I've managed to stick it through but it's been pretty frustrating at times.