Quality of Code Project diminishing
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Now that is a very hard piece of judgement. Posting in Sugs&Bugs forum, as other already mentioned, is what you need to do to report something buggy. To add up to what other said: the staff gets directly alerted when a post is made in that forum, so you cannot get a more responsive approach. "Large number of ads" is more than unfair. Ads are almost invisible on the desktop PC version of the site (Sorry announcers, I meant "well integrated", not invisible, of course). Maybe they are a bit more intrusive on mobile (what are you using) ? Nobody ever mentioned navigation problems due to ads, what is your setup ?
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
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I like this site a lot. I can't complain about the features it has but I would like to see more strict moderation. Some "articles" look like drafts or are not informative enough to deserve a place on CP. CP should be a place for quality content only. This way the site will remain relevant and attract more people who are willing to spend a lot of time creating valuable and well formatted content...
I will second this. I have only submitted one article and when I did I went through what seemed like heavy moderation. I really didn't know what I was doing, so it came back more than once with suggestions which I was happy to implement as they made the article not only look better, but higher quality. Since then though I have seen multiple articles that are worse than my first draft ever was, but still somehow made it through. Consistent rules and moderation are really needed for everyone, whether it is your first article or you 1,000th. As for ads. I'm with the people who said "CP has ads?". I can't say I noticed them at all. I'm not on here a ton, I log on every morning check the Insider News and read through the article headlines, but that's about it unless I'm researching something. Keep up the good work, Chris and team! The site is great.
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David Cunningham wrote:
I do have to say that I'm exceedingly unhappy you feel the quality of the site is going down. We have been working like bandits on new and better features, adding full Git support to articles and allowing them to become full projects along with an amazing developer focused collaborative task management system, and most recently a documentation wiki system for projects.
i think hes referring to the quality of the articles appearing rather that CP itself. And if thats the case i'd agree and i reckon that part of the issue is that CP is casting it's net too wide (my opinion) Bryce
MCAD ---
I'm inclined to disagree about CP casting its net too wide. There are so many technologies out there just in the Microsoft world, that it's next to impossible to even be aware of them all, let alone be knowledgeable about them. I have come to CP both for 101 level information on technologies and for help when I'm having difficulty with some obscure feature of a technology. I'd hate to live with just MSDN as a source of information. Yes, some articles aren't very well written, but perhaps it's the author's first attempt at writing an article for an audience larger than their coworkers. When I read an article, I also read the comments and I pay attention to the ratings when I search for info on a topic. I have seen people post constructive criticism in the comments and I encourage others to do so.
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Yes but that would really help with grammar isn't it? I personally wouldn't like and editor to change the content of whatever I post. I believe OP is after quality of CP itself. Now that is something I do not agree with. Yes, there are more things I want to be added but what exists now, just works. I have not faced anything that OP has mentioned yet. May be it has something to do with browser he uses. I use chrome and never seen advertisement issues.
My CP workspace: Incredibly trivial and probably useless code samples[^]
d@nish wrote:
I use chrome and never seen advertisement issues.
Me too. I don't have a problem with the ads.
- I'm suggesting is the bar for entry of articles and tips (esp. tips) be raised. Full-time technical editors can help here.
- I've found myself using SO for answers to questions. IMHO, the combination of Quick Answers and the language specific Discussion Boards at CP is confusing. Also, QA is flooded with requests for code from people who seem to be simply seeking a solution to their work or school assignment. This isn't tolerated at SO. IMHO, the quality of questions (and their answers) at SO far exceeds that at CP.
On the flip side, I don't think there's any real competition to CP's treasure trove of articles. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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I think that the quality of Code Project is going down. There are a number of issues that need to be addressed but there is no way that I can click on a link and provide the CP staff with a problem (bug) report. CP also needs a bug report tracker that lets me know what's happening. Let's make CP more professional! Chris may believe that ads are important. And to some extent I agree. But the large number of ads is disconcerting. Also when ads hide navigation I am even more concerned.
Gus Gustafson
All right, Gus. I started with your first post on this thread with a mindset of - "yes, occasionally speaking truth to power is a good thing, and Chris and the great folks at CodeProject are really good at listening, building, improving, and taking suggestions to heart... let's see where this goes." After reading your responses to those who responded to you, including Chris, know now that you've lost me. I think you are bordering on insulting, if not outright insulting some very good people.
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d@nish wrote:
I use chrome and never seen advertisement issues.
Me too. I don't have a problem with the ads.
- I'm suggesting is the bar for entry of articles and tips (esp. tips) be raised. Full-time technical editors can help here.
- I've found myself using SO for answers to questions. IMHO, the combination of Quick Answers and the language specific Discussion Boards at CP is confusing. Also, QA is flooded with requests for code from people who seem to be simply seeking a solution to their work or school assignment. This isn't tolerated at SO. IMHO, the quality of questions (and their answers) at SO far exceeds that at CP.
On the flip side, I don't think there's any real competition to CP's treasure trove of articles. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
See when it comes to QA and getting answers, SO is hands down better. It does not have that welcoming feel to it, but hell, you get answers. Mostly, I have noticed, ridiculous answers get accepted by OP. Still, CP is nowhere a competition there. When it comes to articles, it is a different story. No one and I mean no one can compete with this source. Now, OP might not be a beginner and is just pissed off with how to write hello world type articles. But then, OP is missing the whole point of this article base. Your point of having editors is great if they are just after language. But content, no. I believe, community drives CP and let them come up with ideas and hence articles rather a group of people governing everything. I smell dislike on OP's part with site itself which, I would say again, is unacceptable to me. We all have worked on programs and we know how easy and difficult it is. Think before you post is what I would suggest. He also rants about TODO list. Now, as a business owner, I would give a rats ass about telling people in detail what I am working on. Here, story is different. Team CP actually tells us what they are up to. To me, it is more than an account at some website. It is that feeling of collaboration that makes CP special. Even if you do not contribute, that feeling prevails as long you are not that "do my work for free" types.
My CP workspace: Incredibly trivial and probably useless code samples[^]
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All right, Gus. I started with your first post on this thread with a mindset of - "yes, occasionally speaking truth to power is a good thing, and Chris and the great folks at CodeProject are really good at listening, building, improving, and taking suggestions to heart... let's see where this goes." After reading your responses to those who responded to you, including Chris, know now that you've lost me. I think you are bordering on insulting, if not outright insulting some very good people.
Mike, at no time have I ever intended insult. I intend discussion, no matter how heated. Your defense of Chris may be laudable but no defense is required. When discussions become heated (as this one has), I take caution to avoid ad hominem arguments. Insulting is an ad hominem argument. When an individual (in this case Chris) takes an action for selfish reasons, failing to consider the 10 million+ folks who supposedly use this site, then that is wrong and that individual needs to be taken down. Be careful how you interpret my comments. I hold CP, its founder, and its staff in the highest regards. I would not spend the time to write articles and answer member's questions if I did not. I have never questioned the intent of Chris or the CP staff except in the case of moving a page. However when something is amiss, I will make known the problem. In forensics (formal debate) I am not squeamish. And I do not plan to become squeamish! If you consider forcefulness as insulting then I fear the problem is with your definition, not with my assertiveness.
Gus Gustafson
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See when it comes to QA and getting answers, SO is hands down better. It does not have that welcoming feel to it, but hell, you get answers. Mostly, I have noticed, ridiculous answers get accepted by OP. Still, CP is nowhere a competition there. When it comes to articles, it is a different story. No one and I mean no one can compete with this source. Now, OP might not be a beginner and is just pissed off with how to write hello world type articles. But then, OP is missing the whole point of this article base. Your point of having editors is great if they are just after language. But content, no. I believe, community drives CP and let them come up with ideas and hence articles rather a group of people governing everything. I smell dislike on OP's part with site itself which, I would say again, is unacceptable to me. We all have worked on programs and we know how easy and difficult it is. Think before you post is what I would suggest. He also rants about TODO list. Now, as a business owner, I would give a rats ass about telling people in detail what I am working on. Here, story is different. Team CP actually tells us what they are up to. To me, it is more than an account at some website. It is that feeling of collaboration that makes CP special. Even if you do not contribute, that feeling prevails as long you are not that "do my work for free" types.
My CP workspace: Incredibly trivial and probably useless code samples[^]
d@nish wrote:
Your point of having editors is great if they are just after language. But content, no.
I meant vetting overall article quality, not controlling the subject of the article. All I'm suggesting is a higher bar for content acceptance will be a good thing. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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d@nish wrote:
Your point of having editors is great if they are just after language. But content, no.
I meant vetting overall article quality, not controlling the subject of the article. All I'm suggesting is a higher bar for content acceptance will be a good thing. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Define bar. You cannot be vague and ranting at the same time. What are you cribbing about? And please be specific.
My CP workspace: Incredibly trivial and probably useless code samples[^]
I'm neither ranting nor cribbing - just offering constructive criticism. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way. I'm glad you enjoy the communal spirit of CP. I do too. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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I'm neither ranting nor cribbing - just offering constructive criticism. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way. I'm glad you enjoy the communal spirit of CP. I do too. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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No I am not getting emotional here. You really need to define bar.
My CP workspace: Incredibly trivial and probably useless code samples[^]
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Or a good place to go knock back a few. :)
Sometimes the true reward for completing a task is not the money, but instead the satisfaction of a job well done. But it's usually the money.
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Mike, at no time have I ever intended insult. I intend discussion, no matter how heated. Your defense of Chris may be laudable but no defense is required. When discussions become heated (as this one has), I take caution to avoid ad hominem arguments. Insulting is an ad hominem argument. When an individual (in this case Chris) takes an action for selfish reasons, failing to consider the 10 million+ folks who supposedly use this site, then that is wrong and that individual needs to be taken down. Be careful how you interpret my comments. I hold CP, its founder, and its staff in the highest regards. I would not spend the time to write articles and answer member's questions if I did not. I have never questioned the intent of Chris or the CP staff except in the case of moving a page. However when something is amiss, I will make known the problem. In forensics (formal debate) I am not squeamish. And I do not plan to become squeamish! If you consider forcefulness as insulting then I fear the problem is with your definition, not with my assertiveness.
Gus Gustafson
Gus, I'm not sure I should have to have the responsibility of interpreting your comments. I read what you wrote and pointed out to you that you lost me. Perhaps you should keep responsibility yourself for what you choose to write.
gggustafson wrote:
When discussions become heated (as this one has), I take caution to avoid ad hominem arguments. Insulting is an ad hominem argument. When an individual (in this case Chris) takes an action for selfish reasons, failing to consider the 10 million+ folks who supposedly use this site, then that is wrong and that individual needs to be taken down.
You lose me with statements just like this. Do you realize what you're saying in this statement? You think Chris needs to be 'taken down'? You presume to have the wisdom to conclude that? You say no defense of Chris is required, yet you clearly are attacking him - you just wrote he needs to be 'taken down'. Are you sure you're not intending insult? It sounds like in spite of your protests, you certainly do. I'm not even interpreting. Those are your words. For the record, I don't care how forceful you think you are, nor how virtuous you think forcefulness makes you.
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Gus, I'm not sure I should have to have the responsibility of interpreting your comments. I read what you wrote and pointed out to you that you lost me. Perhaps you should keep responsibility yourself for what you choose to write.
gggustafson wrote:
When discussions become heated (as this one has), I take caution to avoid ad hominem arguments. Insulting is an ad hominem argument. When an individual (in this case Chris) takes an action for selfish reasons, failing to consider the 10 million+ folks who supposedly use this site, then that is wrong and that individual needs to be taken down.
You lose me with statements just like this. Do you realize what you're saying in this statement? You think Chris needs to be 'taken down'? You presume to have the wisdom to conclude that? You say no defense of Chris is required, yet you clearly are attacking him - you just wrote he needs to be 'taken down'. Are you sure you're not intending insult? It sounds like in spite of your protests, you certainly do. I'm not even interpreting. Those are your words. For the record, I don't care how forceful you think you are, nor how virtuous you think forcefulness makes you.
I fully assume responsibility for what I wrote. I also stand by it. Yes, I think in this case Chris did wrong and needs to be taken down. No question! CP is no longer his toy (although I doubt that he ever considered it such). By doing what he did, he lessened the usefulness of a web site page, making the lower portion of the page unusable. That is inexcusable. I believe that you are now descending into semantics. But thank you for your comments.
Gus Gustafson
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I fully assume responsibility for what I wrote. I also stand by it. Yes, I think in this case Chris did wrong and needs to be taken down. No question! CP is no longer his toy (although I doubt that he ever considered it such). By doing what he did, he lessened the usefulness of a web site page, making the lower portion of the page unusable. That is inexcusable. I believe that you are now descending into semantics. But thank you for your comments.
Gus Gustafson
gggustafson wrote:
I believe that you are now descending into semantics.
You're wrong.
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Chris, don't be so touchy. You did the programming community a significant service. We have all benefitted from your hard work. I suggested that a current CP project was going to produce less-than-desired results. You didn't listen and unfortunately my prediction has been borne out by the quality of the submissions. My view is that CP is a great site. It does what its founder wanted it to do. But CP is taking off in a strange direction. Maybe you can rein it in. Anyway, thanks for the site.
Gus Gustafson
gggustafson wrote:
Chris, don't be so touchy
Neither Chris, nor his response to you, is touchy. That was an insulting statement.
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gggustafson wrote:
That you would do it for personal reasons is immature and unprofessional!
Seriously? You think that this is a mature response from you? Insulting Chris. If you want to set a site that does exactly what you want, then start one yourself. I think that Chris is allowed a personal indulgence here considering how much work he's done for the community.
Well said, Pete.
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I'm just going to say this... When I have a question, I post it and get responses almost immediately... When I want to research a topic, I search and (usually) find what I need almost immediately... If I have the time, I'll contribute occasionally... Everything just "works". I find the sight very helpful and easy to use, and when I have the opportunity I enjoy the company. Everything is well monitored. I've never had any issues with any of the features. I feel the aggressive nature of these posts toward Chris and the team is uncalled for. Frankly, the site is free, and I appreciate everything I have gotten from it over the past few years. If the team wishes to implement feature which make their lives easier... which ultimately makes our experience better... the I say go for it. Calling the team unprofessional is uncalled for, IMO. I'm extremely happy with the way things are, and have no complaints with either the site or the team running it. Just my 2 cents. -Bert
Well said, Bert