Homework in QA
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I don't think it's about whether it's homework or something else... it's about putting in some effort then being able to ask rational questions afterward. I'm sure a REALLY high percentage of questions in Q&A are homework, and a lot of them get help, but it's easy to see whether they've actually put some effort into finding an answer first.
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Since when did asking a homework question in QA become so frowned upon? I agree when someone has not shown any effort that it can be hard to help them and I personally don't want to write all the code for them; however, too often I see people jump to the conclusion that if it is homework they don't deserve help. Whether it is homework, regular work, or hobby if someone asks a question they should all be treated the same. Help if you can.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Since before Q/A existed. The problem existed in the discussion fora as well.
RyanDev wrote:
Whether it is homework, regular work, or hobby if someone asks a question they should all be treated the same.
Yes.
RyanDev wrote:
Help if you can
Help comes in many forms. No one should be coddled. For many, the proper help is to say "try it yourself first".
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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The problem with homework questions is where the line between help and solution lies. It can be very thin and that makes a big problem, as - IMHO - we should not provide solution. So we have to understand what the teacher told him and try to explain him the same thing with different perspective. However if he does not provide details we have a problem to help him...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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we should not provide solution.
But why not? We provide solutions to people who got a job because they told someone they could code. Why the difference?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Since when did asking a homework question in QA become so frowned upon? I agree when someone has not shown any effort that it can be hard to help them and I personally don't want to write all the code for them; however, too often I see people jump to the conclusion that if it is homework they don't deserve help. Whether it is homework, regular work, or hobby if someone asks a question they should all be treated the same. Help if you can.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
My college days predate the Internet, so make allowances in the following. Back then, the only source of help when you were working on a programming project were either your fellow classmates or the occasional tutor. Neither of them would give you any help unless you could show the work you'd done thus far. You were expected to put forth significant effort before you asked for help. Homework questions in Q&A are reviled because there have been too many cases where the poster doesn't demonstrate what they've done on their own, and simply asks for the code.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
My college days predate the Internet, so make allowances in the following. Back then, the only source of help when you were working on a programming project were either your fellow classmates or the occasional tutor. Neither of them would give you any help unless you could show the work you'd done thus far. You were expected to put forth significant effort before you asked for help. Homework questions in Q&A are reviled because there have been too many cases where the poster doesn't demonstrate what they've done on their own, and simply asks for the code.
Software Zen:
delete this;Quote:
Homework questions in Q&A are reviled because there have been too many cases where the poster doesn't demonstrate what they've done on their own, and simply asks for the code.
True. But it isn't unique to homework questions nor do homework questions always fit this category.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Since when did asking a homework question in QA become so frowned upon? I agree when someone has not shown any effort that it can be hard to help them and I personally don't want to write all the code for them; however, too often I see people jump to the conclusion that if it is homework they don't deserve help. Whether it is homework, regular work, or hobby if someone asks a question they should all be treated the same. Help if you can.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
There is a distinct difference between "Do my homework for me" and "Help me, I'm stuck with my homework." As the other have stated, put in some honest effort, don’t just post the question. You don’t want to be the bread and potatoes boy[^].
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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If it's homework, isn't the general idea for the student to do the work themselves, and take any problems to the teacher? Unless the class is called "How to get other people on the Internet to do your work for you", then the answer needs to be your own work. I can see the argument for providing hints and general guidance if someone is genuinely struggling, but when was the last time you saw a homework question that wasn't "here's the assignment, it's due tomorrow, send me teh codezz, it's urgent"?
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Richard Deeming wrote:
when was the last time you saw a homework question that wasn't "here's the assignment, it's due tomorrow, send me teh codezz, it's urgent"?
Post not directed to me, but I can answer that question. Last week, someone posted a question asking for help and stating it was homework. The responders didn't supply code, just advice; the OP was asked to post their code if the hints didn't resolve the issue. The code was posted the next code and someone replied with a clearer direction - the logic was good, the issue was with the declarations. I commended the OP for saying it was homework and being honest about that. Tim
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Since when did asking a homework question in QA become so frowned upon? I agree when someone has not shown any effort that it can be hard to help them and I personally don't want to write all the code for them; however, too often I see people jump to the conclusion that if it is homework they don't deserve help. Whether it is homework, regular work, or hobby if someone asks a question they should all be treated the same. Help if you can.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Asking a question is fine: but I do draw the line when they post the actual homework question (complete with the question numbers, and the date it is due to be handed in occasionally) and ask for code! We even had one who posted his tutors email so we could send the solution directly for him... :doh: No, actually I draw the line before that. If you try and get stuck, that's one thing. If you try and get us to do it for you without making any effort at all, that's another. And the geniuses that think we can't tell a homework question from a work project...I think they are in for a real shock when they find out that a real project is rather more than a 100 lines of code for a hotel booking simulator! Why should I do their work for them? If I get them through their course I could end up sitting next to them and having to do their work then as well! :wtf:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Asking a question is fine: but I do draw the line when they post the actual homework question (complete with the question numbers, and the date it is due to be handed in occasionally) and ask for code! We even had one who posted his tutors email so we could send the solution directly for him... :doh: No, actually I draw the line before that. If you try and get stuck, that's one thing. If you try and get us to do it for you without making any effort at all, that's another. And the geniuses that think we can't tell a homework question from a work project...I think they are in for a real shock when they find out that a real project is rather more than a 100 lines of code for a hotel booking simulator! Why should I do their work for them? If I get them through their course I could end up sitting next to them and having to do their work then as well! :wtf:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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If you try and get stuck, that's one thing.
Agreed. My point is I have seen some homework questions where they did show effort and the immediate responses by CP community where of no help.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Richard Deeming wrote:
when was the last time you saw a homework question that wasn't "here's the assignment, it's due tomorrow, send me teh codezz, it's urgent"?
Post not directed to me, but I can answer that question. Last week, someone posted a question asking for help and stating it was homework. The responders didn't supply code, just advice; the OP was asked to post their code if the hints didn't resolve the issue. The code was posted the next code and someone replied with a clearer direction - the logic was good, the issue was with the declarations. I commended the OP for saying it was homework and being honest about that. Tim
Which is a perfect example of how it should work. However, from your description, it doesn't sound like anyone jumped to the conclusion that the OP didn't deserve help because it was a homework question, which is what Ryan was complaining about.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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If you try and get stuck, that's one thing.
Agreed. My point is I have seen some homework questions where they did show effort and the immediate responses by CP community where of no help.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Yes...some members are rather intolerant of beginners, and if the question is not phrased exactly correctly they are unnecessarily rude and unhelpful - I suspect it makes them feel big to pick on newbies... Pity, because apart from their complete absence of interpersonal skills most of them are actually competent and in some cases very good technically. Shame that their personalities don't match that level of technical expertise. :sigh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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we should not provide solution.
But why not? We provide solutions to people who got a job because they told someone they could code. Why the difference?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Because the usual idea of homework is not to produce a solution per se but to learn how to produce a solution. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will be arrested for fishing without a license.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Quote:
we should not provide solution.
But why not? We provide solutions to people who got a job because they told someone they could code. Why the difference?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
The difference is, that the one who has a job, probably has a base of knowledge, but missing experience. On the other hand the one who still in the learning phase will miss also the base if we provide him with a solution but no explanation...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Asking a question is fine: but I do draw the line when they post the actual homework question (complete with the question numbers, and the date it is due to be handed in occasionally) and ask for code! We even had one who posted his tutors email so we could send the solution directly for him... :doh: No, actually I draw the line before that. If you try and get stuck, that's one thing. If you try and get us to do it for you without making any effort at all, that's another. And the geniuses that think we can't tell a homework question from a work project...I think they are in for a real shock when they find out that a real project is rather more than a 100 lines of code for a hotel booking simulator! Why should I do their work for them? If I get them through their course I could end up sitting next to them and having to do their work then as well! :wtf:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
OriginalGriff wrote:
posted his tutors email so we could send the solution directly for him
Oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that one. :sigh:
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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Since when did asking a homework question in QA become so frowned upon? I agree when someone has not shown any effort that it can be hard to help them and I personally don't want to write all the code for them; however, too often I see people jump to the conclusion that if it is homework they don't deserve help. Whether it is homework, regular work, or hobby if someone asks a question they should all be treated the same. Help if you can.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Because the usual idea of homework is not to produce a solution per se but to learn how to produce a solution. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will be arrested for fishing without a license.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Because the usual idea of homework is not to produce a solution per se but to learn how to produce a solution.
I'm not disagreeing but isn't that the same for employment? I don't see why anyone is drawing the line between the two except for prejudicial reasons.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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The difference is, that the one who has a job, probably has a base of knowledge, but missing experience. On the other hand the one who still in the learning phase will miss also the base if we provide him with a solution but no explanation...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Persuading others to do your work for you is a wonderful skill to learn.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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Because the usual idea of homework is not to produce a solution per se but to learn how to produce a solution.
I'm not disagreeing but isn't that the same for employment? I don't see why anyone is drawing the line between the two except for prejudicial reasons.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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isn't that the same for employment?
Absolutely not. When you are employed, you are employed to produce solutions. if you learn a little as you do this then all well and good, but this isn't the main point.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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That's fair. In that case I would expect the response to be in line with that, not "we're not going to help with your homework."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I'm not a spokesman for CP or anyone else but me :-D... And you right, that should be the line of response, that should help also the ones with homework questions...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
