Clarification Required
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So essentially you moved to the US because Canada is too libertarian for you? How does that make any sense? The US's mixture of libertarianism and religious policing of morals is a massively confused culture and far more contradictory than what you describe from Canada. And what's wrong with topless women? Lots of southern European beaches have them, there aren't any problems with that. It's not like women go into meetings at work topless in Canada or anything.
BobJanova wrote:
So essentially you moved to the US because Canada is too libertarian for you?
Please provide the quote saying that is why I moved to the United States. I moved for a job; I prefer the politics - two different concepts, not necessarily related.
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Apparently if you call an NBA star a nigger that is racism and an example of a 'plantation mentality'. It warrants 24/7 news coverage and swift action by local, state, federal, and private governing bodies. However, if you treat blacks like niggers by locking helpless black kids in drug infested communities with horrible schools and sub-standard housing that is acceptable. Hell, you can even blame the kids in the latter case. Unlike Oprah, who is a nitwit, I don't consider insults hurled at famous black mutli-millionaires to be an example of 'plantation mentality'. When I think of 'plantation mentality' I start to think about black children in segregated hellhole ghettos - children who live in constant fear and who are abused by all strata of society and left without any recourse. This whole drama is multimillionaires fighting one another. It's time we recognize - blacks and whites recognize - that none of the people who have a stake in this battle are on any of our sides. These guys would run over a white child as quickly as a black child and they are utterly disinterested in the plight of people who are really suffering. A couple of million in fines for a guy that owns the team (valued at 300 million) means he took less than a 1% hit - less than a 1% hit for being worse than Hitler. The outrage doesn't even match the punishment - everyone's hair on fire for a 1% hit. I'd gladly pay 1% of my salary to walk around my job and say whatever I want to say. So it is hypocrisy from one end to the other. I might move to Canada - do they take people who are tired of the USA?
I agree with most of what you say, and the guy is not a racist. He might be a bore, a twit, or a bigot. What do normal people do when they encounter people like this? We walk away. We avoid them. We skip their posts. All he did was verbalize thoughts in his own home. In listening to the comments in the media, I see the typical racial sluts showing up - the Rev. Jacksons, Oprah, etc. None of which have any say in this matter. Setting that aside, the NBA and the owners have a right to protect their investments. Threaten league revenue, and you've stepped in it. Fair enough. I'm sure there are some contract stipulations governing behavior. With that said, the timing of all of this makes me wonder if it wasn't a setup.... The comical part about this is that every professional player is a big boy. They are the cream of the crop, or the would not be there. It's very, very hard for me to see someone like Barkley or Kobe or some other player getting their feelings hurt... Pay me millions / year - you can call me white boy all you want.
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Comparing a racial epitaph to exterminating the Jews is patently offensive if you want to be honest.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Comparing a racial epitaph to exterminating the Jews is patently offensive if you want to be honest.
It would be difficult for me to imagine how someone could mis-read my post more than what you've done here. The entire theme of my post is the rage over an epitaph is ridiculous coming from people who do not express the same rage over the plight of poor children in our inner city communities. In short, we've a real holocaust of sorts going on in the USA and things as trivial as a slur gets the press. My guess is that you're a liberal since you've entirely missed the point and are more offended by an extermination that happened 70 years ago than you are over the one happening today.
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I agree with most of what you say, and the guy is not a racist. He might be a bore, a twit, or a bigot. What do normal people do when they encounter people like this? We walk away. We avoid them. We skip their posts. All he did was verbalize thoughts in his own home. In listening to the comments in the media, I see the typical racial sluts showing up - the Rev. Jacksons, Oprah, etc. None of which have any say in this matter. Setting that aside, the NBA and the owners have a right to protect their investments. Threaten league revenue, and you've stepped in it. Fair enough. I'm sure there are some contract stipulations governing behavior. With that said, the timing of all of this makes me wonder if it wasn't a setup.... The comical part about this is that every professional player is a big boy. They are the cream of the crop, or the would not be there. It's very, very hard for me to see someone like Barkley or Kobe or some other player getting their feelings hurt... Pay me millions / year - you can call me white boy all you want.
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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It is my understanding that the Clippers, after decades of ineffectiveness, have finally started to win. Looks like someone wants to buy the team on the cheap. ^ Follow the money.
Exactly, follow the money. So, the NBA will "force" him to sell. Being the bore that he is, they are in for one hell of a fight. Me thinks the team won't be sold for cheap...
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Apparently if you call an NBA star a nigger that is racism and an example of a 'plantation mentality'. It warrants 24/7 news coverage and swift action by local, state, federal, and private governing bodies. However, if you treat blacks like niggers by locking helpless black kids in drug infested communities with horrible schools and sub-standard housing that is acceptable. Hell, you can even blame the kids in the latter case. Unlike Oprah, who is a nitwit, I don't consider insults hurled at famous black mutli-millionaires to be an example of 'plantation mentality'. When I think of 'plantation mentality' I start to think about black children in segregated hellhole ghettos - children who live in constant fear and who are abused by all strata of society and left without any recourse. This whole drama is multimillionaires fighting one another. It's time we recognize - blacks and whites recognize - that none of the people who have a stake in this battle are on any of our sides. These guys would run over a white child as quickly as a black child and they are utterly disinterested in the plight of people who are really suffering. A couple of million in fines for a guy that owns the team (valued at 300 million) means he took less than a 1% hit - less than a 1% hit for being worse than Hitler. The outrage doesn't even match the punishment - everyone's hair on fire for a 1% hit. I'd gladly pay 1% of my salary to walk around my job and say whatever I want to say. So it is hypocrisy from one end to the other. I might move to Canada - do they take people who are tired of the USA?
Yo bro, get down to da projects! -- Nagy 'Westy All The Way' Vilmos
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Comparing a racial epitaph to exterminating the Jews is patently offensive if you want to be honest.
It would be difficult for me to imagine how someone could mis-read my post more than what you've done here. The entire theme of my post is the rage over an epitaph is ridiculous coming from people who do not express the same rage over the plight of poor children in our inner city communities. In short, we've a real holocaust of sorts going on in the USA and things as trivial as a slur gets the press. My guess is that you're a liberal since you've entirely missed the point and are more offended by an extermination that happened 70 years ago than you are over the one happening today.
Nope, rich white conservative.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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BobJanova wrote:
So essentially you moved to the US because Canada is too libertarian for you?
Please provide the quote saying that is why I moved to the United States. I moved for a job; I prefer the politics - two different concepts, not necessarily related.
MehGerbil asked "I wish you'd elaborate on that. That could be really interesting." and your reply totally (and really, exclusively) referenced allowing topless woman on the beach. So - if you moved to the US for a job, when asked why you should have, how do we say it down here . . . ah yes . . "you should have said so"
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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A large fraction of your post has to do with commercially defined attitudes of what people should look like. Animals do get jealous - but they still don't worry about "where the sun don't shine".
MehGerbil wrote:
it is the same reason why it is considered rude for millionaires to walk around with a placard on their chests announcing their bank balances.
Wrong. They do it with big cars, shiny baubles, etc. Should we outlaw the display of anything wherein someone else's may be 'bigger' (put intended). The internet user are warned about being victimized by responding to social engineering scenarios. They omit the bigger picture of the total social engineering of what personal behavior is or isn't offensive. Surely there are behaviors a human can do which are unacceptable: deification in public areas, blasting audio invading someone else's audio territory (that doesn't mean only silence is acceptable). A lifetime of psychological manipulation has paid off - at least for the manipulators.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
A large fraction of your post has to do with commercially defined attitudes of what people should look like. Animals do get jealous - but they still don't worry about "where the sun don't shine".
This is where we head in separate philosophical directions. Envy/Jealousy is built into the human psyche so at worst 'commericially defined attitudes' is merely working with the putty they already find between our ears. The big bad advertiser isn't making us envious - he's just working with the natural inclination of mankind.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Wrong. They do it with big cars, shiny baubles, etc.
..and the response typically is what? We make jokes about the guy in the Jaguar - jokes that he's compensating. How much more miserable would you be if you could see for sure that he wasn't compensating. :-D
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Surely there are behaviors a human can do which are unacceptable: deification in public areas, blasting audio invading someone else's audio territory (that doesn't mean only silence is acceptable).
This is an entirely arbitrary list which I suspect is as much a product of manipulation as the sex thing. No, we're better off recognizing human nature - what it is at it's core - and dealing with that issue.
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There's a difference between 'it's rude' and 'it should be illegal'. Take your analogy: it's not illegal for rich people to flaunt their wealth.
BobJanova wrote:
There's a difference between 'it's rude' and 'it should be illegal'. Take your analogy: it's not illegal for rich people to flaunt their wealth.
You're a bit circular here. The fact it isn't illegal says nothing about whether or not it should be illegal. Think about this for a moment: Would it make sense for a society built upon consumerism to outlaw ostentatious displays of wealth? Even if flaunting wealth were as wrong as public sex it would undermine our system to outlaw it.
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Nope, rich white conservative.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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MehGerbil asked "I wish you'd elaborate on that. That could be really interesting." and your reply totally (and really, exclusively) referenced allowing topless woman on the beach. So - if you moved to the US for a job, when asked why you should have, how do we say it down here . . . ah yes . . "you should have said so"
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Yo bro, get down to da projects! -- Nagy 'Westy All The Way' Vilmos
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Troll => SoapBox.
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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Balboos, It's time we recognized that Tim moved to the USA because he hates boobies. It is the only rational explanation that fits all the facts. -MehGerbil
Horrifying! Should I ever venture north of the border, I'll make sure not to drink the water. Just to be safe.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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In the '80s, I was at a friend's house. His Dad was a police officer. I asked him, "The charter of rights and freedoms says that sexual discrimination is illegal. However, men are allowed to go topless in public, but women aren't - that is indecent exposure. Are they on a collision course?" I was told, "Yes, they are on a collision course." Well, the supreme court declare the indecent exposure law unconsitutional: result, women can go topless in Canada in public. I do not want my children exposed to topless women, so I can't go to a public beach. And, do any of want to see our daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers walking around topless for all to see?
Tim Carmichael wrote:
Well, the supreme court declare the indecent exposure law unconsitutional: result, women can go topless in Canada in public.
Not true. The matter has not been determined by the Supreme Court of Canada. It is upto the provinces to deem what is public indecency (regarding going topless in public). See this[^] link. Note, I'm not advocating for or against this - just drawing your attention to this point. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Well, just because it's legal does not mean everyone's gonna do it. I lived in Toronto for over an year and have visited Canada multiple times after that. I have never encountered a topless woman in public.
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Latest article: C++ 11 features in Visual C++ 2013 Preview
You should hang out with me when you next visit. :-D /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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You should hang out with me when you next visit. :-D /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
:-D
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Latest article: C++ 11 features in Visual C++ 2013 Preview
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
A large fraction of your post has to do with commercially defined attitudes of what people should look like. Animals do get jealous - but they still don't worry about "where the sun don't shine".
This is where we head in separate philosophical directions. Envy/Jealousy is built into the human psyche so at worst 'commericially defined attitudes' is merely working with the putty they already find between our ears. The big bad advertiser isn't making us envious - he's just working with the natural inclination of mankind.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Wrong. They do it with big cars, shiny baubles, etc.
..and the response typically is what? We make jokes about the guy in the Jaguar - jokes that he's compensating. How much more miserable would you be if you could see for sure that he wasn't compensating. :-D
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Surely there are behaviors a human can do which are unacceptable: deification in public areas, blasting audio invading someone else's audio territory (that doesn't mean only silence is acceptable).
This is an entirely arbitrary list which I suspect is as much a product of manipulation as the sex thing. No, we're better off recognizing human nature - what it is at it's core - and dealing with that issue.
Envy/Jealousy are part of the evolved survival instinct, where it is beneficial for preservation of ones genes (another rant I could enter). That it can be exploited and misdirected, as has been done, doesn't make the consequences of the misdirection valid in any way. Yeah. They messed with the putty. But it's your putty - take it back and reshape it. I picked 'defecation', in particular, not for it's impact in the lounge or an arbitrary reason. This is a real potential health threat and should thus be a taboo. It was, in fact, since biblical times (Israel's military were instructed to carry a shovel-like-paddles, go off to the side of the camp/road, and when done, cover the mess). The jokes about the guy in the Jaguar? Like nervous laughter. At the heart of it, not real. Lamborghini, Lotus, Austin-Martin, etc., they're all in-your-face wealth. Fun to drive, you say? Most of that thrill is disobey logical safety because 'special people' have special privileges. But, let's digress for a moment - and look at the putty play: When I was growing up, it was easy for any kid to watch war movies, cowboys & Indians, etc., with massive amounts of killing going on. Even modern SciFi will only PG a movie with skillions of humans being killed by the evil aliens. On the other hand, watching two people love one another - from that we protect our children! Someone, somewhere, once told the censors no kisses longer than 15 seconds, but you can massacre at will. Check out some of the armed insurgents around the world (primarily Muslim insurgents): kids given guns to play with and wave in the air whilst daddy looks on and grins (real things, too) being also taught it's dirty for a woman to even show her face in public.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Envy/Jealousy are part of the evolved survival instinct, where it is beneficial for preservation of ones genes (another rant I could enter). That it can be exploited and misdirected, as has been done, doesn't make the consequences of the misdirection valid in any way. Yeah. They messed with the putty. But it's your putty - take it back and reshape it. I picked 'defecation', in particular, not for it's impact in the lounge or an arbitrary reason. This is a real potential health threat and should thus be a taboo. It was, in fact, since biblical times (Israel's military were instructed to carry a shovel-like-paddles, go off to the side of the camp/road, and when done, cover the mess). The jokes about the guy in the Jaguar? Like nervous laughter. At the heart of it, not real. Lamborghini, Lotus, Austin-Martin, etc., they're all in-your-face wealth. Fun to drive, you say? Most of that thrill is disobey logical safety because 'special people' have special privileges. But, let's digress for a moment - and look at the putty play: When I was growing up, it was easy for any kid to watch war movies, cowboys & Indians, etc., with massive amounts of killing going on. Even modern SciFi will only PG a movie with skillions of humans being killed by the evil aliens. On the other hand, watching two people love one another - from that we protect our children! Someone, somewhere, once told the censors no kisses longer than 15 seconds, but you can massacre at will. Check out some of the armed insurgents around the world (primarily Muslim insurgents): kids given guns to play with and wave in the air whilst daddy looks on and grins (real things, too) being also taught it's dirty for a woman to even show her face in public.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
That it can be exploited and misdirected, as has been done, doesn't make the consequences of the misdirection valid in any way.
I wouldn't claim the manipulation is okay but rather that dealing with the substance of what can be manipulated is a better approach to fixing then problem then rounding up the manipulators and getting them to promise to play nice. If you do that root cause fix then it is fixed for all types of manipulation.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
When I was growing up, it was easy for any kid to watch war movies, cowboys & Indians, etc., with massive amounts of killing going on. Even modern SciFi will only PG a movie with skillions of humans being killed by the evil aliens. On the other hand, watching two people love one another - from that we protect our children!
Again, you're pointing out what is legal and contrasting it with what is illegal and implying the legality of one says something about the legality of the other. At best, with this approach, you can establish hypocrisy but unfortunately for your argument the sting hits in both directions. Your approach could just as easily be used to outlaw violence on TV - appealing to a cultural norm can hit both ways. Someone could say, "Hey, we don't allow sex on TV so we shouldn't allow violence!" and they'd be just as rationally consistent as what you propose here. I don't think you can make an argument for 'tits in public' that isn't self defeating. Let's review the typical arguments: 1: Violence is legal, we're hypocrites, stop the hypocrisy. (See above) 2: Animals don't care - we can learn from them. (Uh, no.. animals also eat their young. Not consistent) If you don't have a good argument to allow tits in public then by what standard is the gross commercialization condemned? Can you establish that tits are banned in public as a product of advertising is wrong? I seriously doubt it - outside of personal preference. :-D