Clarification Required
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Balboos, It's time we recognized that Tim moved to the USA because he hates boobies. It is the only rational explanation that fits all the facts. -MehGerbil
Horrifying! Should I ever venture north of the border, I'll make sure not to drink the water. Just to be safe.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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In the '80s, I was at a friend's house. His Dad was a police officer. I asked him, "The charter of rights and freedoms says that sexual discrimination is illegal. However, men are allowed to go topless in public, but women aren't - that is indecent exposure. Are they on a collision course?" I was told, "Yes, they are on a collision course." Well, the supreme court declare the indecent exposure law unconsitutional: result, women can go topless in Canada in public. I do not want my children exposed to topless women, so I can't go to a public beach. And, do any of want to see our daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers walking around topless for all to see?
Tim Carmichael wrote:
Well, the supreme court declare the indecent exposure law unconsitutional: result, women can go topless in Canada in public.
Not true. The matter has not been determined by the Supreme Court of Canada. It is upto the provinces to deem what is public indecency (regarding going topless in public). See this[^] link. Note, I'm not advocating for or against this - just drawing your attention to this point. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Well, just because it's legal does not mean everyone's gonna do it. I lived in Toronto for over an year and have visited Canada multiple times after that. I have never encountered a topless woman in public.
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Latest article: C++ 11 features in Visual C++ 2013 Preview
You should hang out with me when you next visit. :-D /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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You should hang out with me when you next visit. :-D /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
:-D
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com Latest article: C++ 11 features in Visual C++ 2013 Preview
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
A large fraction of your post has to do with commercially defined attitudes of what people should look like. Animals do get jealous - but they still don't worry about "where the sun don't shine".
This is where we head in separate philosophical directions. Envy/Jealousy is built into the human psyche so at worst 'commericially defined attitudes' is merely working with the putty they already find between our ears. The big bad advertiser isn't making us envious - he's just working with the natural inclination of mankind.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Wrong. They do it with big cars, shiny baubles, etc.
..and the response typically is what? We make jokes about the guy in the Jaguar - jokes that he's compensating. How much more miserable would you be if you could see for sure that he wasn't compensating. :-D
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Surely there are behaviors a human can do which are unacceptable: deification in public areas, blasting audio invading someone else's audio territory (that doesn't mean only silence is acceptable).
This is an entirely arbitrary list which I suspect is as much a product of manipulation as the sex thing. No, we're better off recognizing human nature - what it is at it's core - and dealing with that issue.
Envy/Jealousy are part of the evolved survival instinct, where it is beneficial for preservation of ones genes (another rant I could enter). That it can be exploited and misdirected, as has been done, doesn't make the consequences of the misdirection valid in any way. Yeah. They messed with the putty. But it's your putty - take it back and reshape it. I picked 'defecation', in particular, not for it's impact in the lounge or an arbitrary reason. This is a real potential health threat and should thus be a taboo. It was, in fact, since biblical times (Israel's military were instructed to carry a shovel-like-paddles, go off to the side of the camp/road, and when done, cover the mess). The jokes about the guy in the Jaguar? Like nervous laughter. At the heart of it, not real. Lamborghini, Lotus, Austin-Martin, etc., they're all in-your-face wealth. Fun to drive, you say? Most of that thrill is disobey logical safety because 'special people' have special privileges. But, let's digress for a moment - and look at the putty play: When I was growing up, it was easy for any kid to watch war movies, cowboys & Indians, etc., with massive amounts of killing going on. Even modern SciFi will only PG a movie with skillions of humans being killed by the evil aliens. On the other hand, watching two people love one another - from that we protect our children! Someone, somewhere, once told the censors no kisses longer than 15 seconds, but you can massacre at will. Check out some of the armed insurgents around the world (primarily Muslim insurgents): kids given guns to play with and wave in the air whilst daddy looks on and grins (real things, too) being also taught it's dirty for a woman to even show her face in public.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Envy/Jealousy are part of the evolved survival instinct, where it is beneficial for preservation of ones genes (another rant I could enter). That it can be exploited and misdirected, as has been done, doesn't make the consequences of the misdirection valid in any way. Yeah. They messed with the putty. But it's your putty - take it back and reshape it. I picked 'defecation', in particular, not for it's impact in the lounge or an arbitrary reason. This is a real potential health threat and should thus be a taboo. It was, in fact, since biblical times (Israel's military were instructed to carry a shovel-like-paddles, go off to the side of the camp/road, and when done, cover the mess). The jokes about the guy in the Jaguar? Like nervous laughter. At the heart of it, not real. Lamborghini, Lotus, Austin-Martin, etc., they're all in-your-face wealth. Fun to drive, you say? Most of that thrill is disobey logical safety because 'special people' have special privileges. But, let's digress for a moment - and look at the putty play: When I was growing up, it was easy for any kid to watch war movies, cowboys & Indians, etc., with massive amounts of killing going on. Even modern SciFi will only PG a movie with skillions of humans being killed by the evil aliens. On the other hand, watching two people love one another - from that we protect our children! Someone, somewhere, once told the censors no kisses longer than 15 seconds, but you can massacre at will. Check out some of the armed insurgents around the world (primarily Muslim insurgents): kids given guns to play with and wave in the air whilst daddy looks on and grins (real things, too) being also taught it's dirty for a woman to even show her face in public.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
That it can be exploited and misdirected, as has been done, doesn't make the consequences of the misdirection valid in any way.
I wouldn't claim the manipulation is okay but rather that dealing with the substance of what can be manipulated is a better approach to fixing then problem then rounding up the manipulators and getting them to promise to play nice. If you do that root cause fix then it is fixed for all types of manipulation.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
When I was growing up, it was easy for any kid to watch war movies, cowboys & Indians, etc., with massive amounts of killing going on. Even modern SciFi will only PG a movie with skillions of humans being killed by the evil aliens. On the other hand, watching two people love one another - from that we protect our children!
Again, you're pointing out what is legal and contrasting it with what is illegal and implying the legality of one says something about the legality of the other. At best, with this approach, you can establish hypocrisy but unfortunately for your argument the sting hits in both directions. Your approach could just as easily be used to outlaw violence on TV - appealing to a cultural norm can hit both ways. Someone could say, "Hey, we don't allow sex on TV so we shouldn't allow violence!" and they'd be just as rationally consistent as what you propose here. I don't think you can make an argument for 'tits in public' that isn't self defeating. Let's review the typical arguments: 1: Violence is legal, we're hypocrites, stop the hypocrisy. (See above) 2: Animals don't care - we can learn from them. (Uh, no.. animals also eat their young. Not consistent) If you don't have a good argument to allow tits in public then by what standard is the gross commercialization condemned? Can you establish that tits are banned in public as a product of advertising is wrong? I seriously doubt it - outside of personal preference. :-D
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
That it can be exploited and misdirected, as has been done, doesn't make the consequences of the misdirection valid in any way.
I wouldn't claim the manipulation is okay but rather that dealing with the substance of what can be manipulated is a better approach to fixing then problem then rounding up the manipulators and getting them to promise to play nice. If you do that root cause fix then it is fixed for all types of manipulation.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
When I was growing up, it was easy for any kid to watch war movies, cowboys & Indians, etc., with massive amounts of killing going on. Even modern SciFi will only PG a movie with skillions of humans being killed by the evil aliens. On the other hand, watching two people love one another - from that we protect our children!
Again, you're pointing out what is legal and contrasting it with what is illegal and implying the legality of one says something about the legality of the other. At best, with this approach, you can establish hypocrisy but unfortunately for your argument the sting hits in both directions. Your approach could just as easily be used to outlaw violence on TV - appealing to a cultural norm can hit both ways. Someone could say, "Hey, we don't allow sex on TV so we shouldn't allow violence!" and they'd be just as rationally consistent as what you propose here. I don't think you can make an argument for 'tits in public' that isn't self defeating. Let's review the typical arguments: 1: Violence is legal, we're hypocrites, stop the hypocrisy. (See above) 2: Animals don't care - we can learn from them. (Uh, no.. animals also eat their young. Not consistent) If you don't have a good argument to allow tits in public then by what standard is the gross commercialization condemned? Can you establish that tits are banned in public as a product of advertising is wrong? I seriously doubt it - outside of personal preference. :-D
Briefly (for a change)
MehGerbil wrote:
(Uh, no.. animals also eat their young. Not consistent)
And humans kill other humans (very few animals will kill their own kind) - We can still learn from them.
MehGerbil wrote:
If you don't have a good argument to allow tits in public then by what standard is the gross commercialization condemned? Can you establish that tits are banned in public as a product of advertising is wrong? I seriously doubt it - outside of personal preference
As good an argument as allowing woman to not where blue burkahs and peer through slits their entire life. The argument, clearly rhetorical. As for condemning gross commercialization, were I to start to be specific about a standard I'd start with a concept where commercialization is done at the expense of liberty. Any perceived harm from visual exposure of humans to other humans is a taught reaction. From the oxymoron, "Societal Norms". It may come down to this: it's not making an argument for 'tits in public' that in question, but rather, making an argument for 'why not tits in public'. (futile attempt at brevity)
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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The US is obsessed with racism. That won't change.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
In truth, only racists are obsessed with racism. The rest of us shrug our shoulders and say "WTF?!"
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
In the '80s, I was at a friend's house. His Dad was a police officer. I asked him, "The charter of rights and freedoms says that sexual discrimination is illegal. However, men are allowed to go topless in public, but women aren't - that is indecent exposure. Are they on a collision course?" I was told, "Yes, they are on a collision course." Well, the supreme court declare the indecent exposure law unconsitutional: result, women can go topless in Canada in public. I do not want my children exposed to topless women, so I can't go to a public beach. And, do any of want to see our daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers walking around topless for all to see?
That's absurd. Just because everyone can doesn't mean everyone will. It's just like unlicensed open carry of firearms. In Arizona it's legal, but the VAST VAST majority of citizens there don't do it. Another example - Facebook is free to join. Everybody can do it, but not everybody does. I could go on, but I think you get the point.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Well, as an outsider, I was scared of saying anything. All I had on mind was, "Don't say anything remotely related to color and don't get shot."
My CP workspace: Incredibly trivial and probably useless code samples[^]
You said "color" and "shot" in the same sentence - that was clearly meant as a racist slur, you racist you! Oops, I just realised I did too! Me racist me! Sometimes this is all just too ridiculous. People, especially USians are way over sensitive about things that are said. What is said is way less important than what is done, usually.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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In truth, only racists are obsessed with racism. The rest of us shrug our shoulders and say "WTF?!"
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Exactly, follow the money. So, the NBA will "force" him to sell. Being the bore that he is, they are in for one hell of a fight. Me thinks the team won't be sold for cheap...
Charlie Gilley Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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In the '80s, I was at a friend's house. His Dad was a police officer. I asked him, "The charter of rights and freedoms says that sexual discrimination is illegal. However, men are allowed to go topless in public, but women aren't - that is indecent exposure. Are they on a collision course?" I was told, "Yes, they are on a collision course." Well, the supreme court declare the indecent exposure law unconsitutional: result, women can go topless in Canada in public. I do not want my children exposed to topless women, so I can't go to a public beach. And, do any of want to see our daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers walking around topless for all to see?
Tim Carmichael wrote:
I do not want my children exposed to topless women,
Why the devil not?
Tim Carmichael wrote:
And, do any of want to see our daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers walking around topless for all to see?
Not particularly, but if that's what they want to do, why should one stop them? They are just breasts, for goodness sake!
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Apparently if you call an NBA star a nigger that is racism and an example of a 'plantation mentality'. It warrants 24/7 news coverage and swift action by local, state, federal, and private governing bodies. However, if you treat blacks like niggers by locking helpless black kids in drug infested communities with horrible schools and sub-standard housing that is acceptable. Hell, you can even blame the kids in the latter case. Unlike Oprah, who is a nitwit, I don't consider insults hurled at famous black mutli-millionaires to be an example of 'plantation mentality'. When I think of 'plantation mentality' I start to think about black children in segregated hellhole ghettos - children who live in constant fear and who are abused by all strata of society and left without any recourse. This whole drama is multimillionaires fighting one another. It's time we recognize - blacks and whites recognize - that none of the people who have a stake in this battle are on any of our sides. These guys would run over a white child as quickly as a black child and they are utterly disinterested in the plight of people who are really suffering. A couple of million in fines for a guy that owns the team (valued at 300 million) means he took less than a 1% hit - less than a 1% hit for being worse than Hitler. The outrage doesn't even match the punishment - everyone's hair on fire for a 1% hit. I'd gladly pay 1% of my salary to walk around my job and say whatever I want to say. So it is hypocrisy from one end to the other. I might move to Canada - do they take people who are tired of the USA?
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I may not be up with the news, but sure;y that's not all that he did? He was recorded telling his girlfriend not to bring black people to the games? or am I missing something?
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In the '80s, I was at a friend's house. His Dad was a police officer. I asked him, "The charter of rights and freedoms says that sexual discrimination is illegal. However, men are allowed to go topless in public, but women aren't - that is indecent exposure. Are they on a collision course?" I was told, "Yes, they are on a collision course." Well, the supreme court declare the indecent exposure law unconsitutional: result, women can go topless in Canada in public. I do not want my children exposed to topless women, so I can't go to a public beach. And, do any of want to see our daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers walking around topless for all to see?
Tim Carmichael wrote:
I do not want my children exposed to topless women,
Guess they weren't breastfed then, or had a bath/shower with mummy when they were younger?
Quad skating his way through the world since the early 80's... Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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Fair enough.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Tim Carmichael wrote:
And, do any of want to see our daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers walking around topless for all to see?
I dunno... how cute is your sister? Actually, I don't want to see the men topless. I didn't know it was legal to be topless in Canada. The only saving grace is that it's cold up there most of the time.
MehGerbil wrote:
The only saving grace is that it's cold up there most of the time.
Hard nips even with a shirt on. :-D
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
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I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Tim Carmichael wrote:
And, do any of want to see our daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers walking around topless for all to see?
I dunno... how cute is your sister? Actually, I don't want to see the men topless. I didn't know it was legal to be topless in Canada. The only saving grace is that it's cold up there most of the time.
I basically agree with your opening rant and the sentiments that you expressed in it. But this response is truly one of the best that I have seen here. Very very funny and respectful of Tim's statement, even though it was encouraging some flame. Just wish you had of inserted the word 'Kid' in front of 'sister'. I Enjoyed this... Thanks :thumbsup:
"Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read." Frank Zappa 1980
