Bowling for Columbine
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Tim Smith wrote: This is exactly what conservatives have been saying for ages. Guns don't kill people, people kill people and it's exactly what Moore says in his film. he doesn't push that guns should be outlawed, not at all. he just tries to figure out what makes our guns more lethal than their canadian counterparts. he tries to get some answers, but all he can come up with (IMO) is that americans live in a culture that's saturated with fear: fear of Marylin Manson, fear of black people, fear of the government, fear of the other political party, etc.. it's a good movie in what it tries to do. he does go overboard a couple of times, that's true. but the basic idea is sound. too bad 99% of the knee-jerks think it's about banning guns. (present company excluded, of course) -c
When history comes, it always takes you by surprise.
Maybe I will watch it one day. It is one of those things just from past experience I have also thought M. Moore was basically, well, an idiot. So it was natural to assume this film wouldn't be different. :) Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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One thing that Michael should have discussed was the prevalence of massacres, such as Columbine, and the correlation to the availability of guns. Random killings or crimes of passion can be carried out using lots of things besides guns, but it seems to be semi-automatics that do the damage in the big killing sprees. Maybe also some more talk on the types of guns that are available in each country (and how this contributes to the overall feeling about guns) would have been interesting. The availability of weapons in the US whose sole purpose is to kill as many people as possible scares the willies out of me. Why does *anyone* need a fully automatic armour piercing weapon that fires 100 rounds a second and can turn a cow into patties in 15 seconds flat? You're never going to use this for hunting - at least not unless you bring lots of small plastic bags with you. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Why does *anyone* need a fully automatic armour piercing weapon so we can protect ourselves when Iraq invades! -c
When history comes, it always takes you by surprise.
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One thing that Michael should have discussed was the prevalence of massacres, such as Columbine, and the correlation to the availability of guns. Random killings or crimes of passion can be carried out using lots of things besides guns, but it seems to be semi-automatics that do the damage in the big killing sprees. Maybe also some more talk on the types of guns that are available in each country (and how this contributes to the overall feeling about guns) would have been interesting. The availability of weapons in the US whose sole purpose is to kill as many people as possible scares the willies out of me. Why does *anyone* need a fully automatic armour piercing weapon that fires 100 rounds a second and can turn a cow into patties in 15 seconds flat? You're never going to use this for hunting - at least not unless you bring lots of small plastic bags with you. cheers, Chris Maunder
You have hit on probably one of the few valid anti-gun arguments (IMHO). The ability to kill quickly and in great numbers is the problem. When I talk with others about gun control, I always watch for this argument since it is one that I can not defend against. If guns were totally outlawed people would start to just more primitive weapons. This wouldn't stop things like you basic domestic crimes of passion or your other "one on one" murders. But IMHO, it would be much harder for someone to kill 10 people in an office with a knife. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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Chris Maunder wrote: Why does *anyone* need a fully automatic armour piercing weapon so we can protect ourselves when Iraq invades! -c
When history comes, it always takes you by surprise.
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Chris Maunder wrote: News on US TV channels is incredibly inward looking and sensationalist. They seem to want to outdo each other in terms of making you feel concerned - or even scared. Basically true. The real reason they are trying to "outdo" each other is ratings. Ratings == Advertising $$$. The "making you feel concerned or even scared" is simply a means to an end. I find myself watching very, VERY little television news. I do find it interesting how serious non-Americans take American news when they see it. I think most Americans tend to take it with a grain of salt. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash. - Emo Phillips
Mike Mullikin wrote: I do find it interesting how serious non-Americans take American news when they see it. I think most Americans tend to take it with a grain of salt. It's because we're used to taking our news seriously instead of having to take it with a grain of salt. (although from what I'm picking up from some of the news back home Australia - at least our PM - seems to have jumped on the war bandwagon a little bit) cheers, Chris Maunder
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Has anyone seen this movie ? Is it even showing in the USA ? A very interesting movie, especially the history of American interference with the democratic processes of other countries, complete with resultant body counts. I don't get the scene where they can't figure why Australia has 65 fatal shootings a year, Japan has 38, Canada has 165 and the USA has 11,500. Duh. Americans have guns. The movie starts with a bank where they give you a GUN to open an account. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
One thing I've heard and would like to know if it is true or not, is that there are 'gun fairs' in the US in the same way that we have 'computer fairs'. This is an event where people can set up a stall and sell privately owned weapons with no checks, and that some are held in schools as weekends. I hope it isn't true :~ Elaine The tigress is here :-D
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One thing I've heard and would like to know if it is true or not, is that there are 'gun fairs' in the US in the same way that we have 'computer fairs'. This is an event where people can set up a stall and sell privately owned weapons with no checks, and that some are held in schools as weekends. I hope it isn't true :~ Elaine The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote: This is an event where people can set up a stall and sell privately owned weapons True Trollslayer wrote: with no checks False, all legal gun sales MUST go through proper checks Trollslayer wrote: and that some are held in schools as weekends. Doubtful... :rolleyes: Sounds like the US media isn't the only ones trying to scare people. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash. - Emo Phillips
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Trollslayer wrote: This is an event where people can set up a stall and sell privately owned weapons True Trollslayer wrote: with no checks False, all legal gun sales MUST go through proper checks Trollslayer wrote: and that some are held in schools as weekends. Doubtful... :rolleyes: Sounds like the US media isn't the only ones trying to scare people. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash. - Emo Phillips
Mike Mullikin wrote: Sounds like the US media isn't the only ones trying to scare people. Thats why I was asking. One thing - are these rules federal or state ? The tigress is here :-D
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Sounds like the US media isn't the only ones trying to scare people. Thats why I was asking. One thing - are these rules federal or state ? The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote: One thing - are these rules federal or state ? A combination - the Feds have their own checks and requirements and any state is allowed to add additional checks and requirements. The states cannot reduce or remove the federal checks and requirements. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash. - Emo Phillips
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Mike Mullikin wrote: I do find it interesting how serious non-Americans take American news when they see it. I think most Americans tend to take it with a grain of salt. It's because we're used to taking our news seriously instead of having to take it with a grain of salt. (although from what I'm picking up from some of the news back home Australia - at least our PM - seems to have jumped on the war bandwagon a little bit) cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: It's because we're used to taking our news seriously instead of having to take it with a grain of salt. Please tell me you don't believe your news implicitly. :~ :suss: Skepticism is important in these matters. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash. - Emo Phillips
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Maybe I will watch it one day. It is one of those things just from past experience I have also thought M. Moore was basically, well, an idiot. So it was natural to assume this film wouldn't be different. :) Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: Moore was basically, well, an idiot. He's a grandstanding asshole. But that's made clear in, like, the first five minutes of the movie, so once you've got the salt dosage down the movie becomes interesting and entertaining. ---
My whole life I've practiced the art of self-sabotage -- fearing success perhaps even more than fearing failure. I think I have got this flareup resolved, but I'm constantly waiting to see what new and exciting ways I can spoil my chances for a better life. - koreykruse, Compulsive Skin Picking
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You have to remember that M. Moore produces political movies and not documentaries. He has a bad habit of taking the worst slice that supports his view he tries to portray and then expands that to make it seem as if it is the way things really are. In other words, it is about 99% crap. Another one of those kernel of truth type things. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: He has a bad habit of taking the worst slice that supports his view he tries to portray and then expands that to make it seem as if it is the way things really are. Unfortunately, he also has no qualms about staging events that simply never happened nor could happen. (Like NBC blowing up trucks when hit by another car, when they wouldn't blow up on their own.) He's also very thin skinned for a professional critic, but that's a whole different subject.
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My original comment was harsher than I really intended. (Morning grumps) M. Moore is nothing more than the left's Rush Limbaugh. So as long as people take him in that context, there is really nothing wrong with him. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: (Morning grumps) Tell me about it. Two kids mean I *always* have the 'morning grumps'. Tim Smith wrote: M. Moore is nothing more than the left's Rush Limbaugh. I'd never heard of him, which perhaps left me unable to place a context on what I was seeing. I could certainly see where stuff was being staged and context was lost ( for example, the list of places where the USA has ousted democratically elected leaders is fact, the list of people who died as a result is not entirely - who can say what the situation was before, how many would have died if they did not ) I thought it interesting mainly because he played often on his NRA membership, and he did not seek to suggest the problem was simply that the populace needs to be disarmed. He didn't suggest that once, which is where he and I disagree. The problem is clearly more complex than that, but only people with guns can shoot people. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
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Yep - seen it and loved it. The point with the gun fatality thing is that there are tons of guns in Canada yet proportional to the number of guns here, the rate of gun related homocide is extremely low (or, to put it another way, the rate in the US is extremely high). The point Michael was trying to make was that people in the US are made to feel insecure, unhappy with their current state and fearful (by the media, the government, whoever). To an extent I agree with him. News on US TV channels is incredibly inward looking and sensationalist. They seem to want to outdo each other in terms of making you feel concerned - or even scared. TV in Canada is all about the hockey, the weather and how dumb their Prime Minister is (just like home, but change 'hockey' to 'cricket' ;)) cheers, Chris Maunder
Yes, it gave me new insight into why you moved to Canada and not the USA. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
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Christian Graus wrote: criminal == black man I can't remember who said this, and I'm quoting it for thought only, so I'll have to paraphrase as best as I can: Black people commit more crime. If you switch on your televsion and hear on the news about an old woman who was brutally beaten and mugged in broad daylight -- that was a black man. If you switch on your televsion and hear about a betting shop that was robbed, with a clerk being stabbed to death and one more seriously injured -- that was a black man. If you switch on your televsion and see a crime scene where a grocery store worker was pulled from his vehicle and shot to death with a 9mm handgun after honking his horn at another driver who cut infront on a busy street -- a black guy did it. But if you switch on your televsion and hear about ten decapitated bodies found hidden under floor boards and in wall spaces with their hearts and sexual organs removed -- that was a white man.
David Wulff
"David Wulff can't live without me, so you shouldn't either" - Paul Watson
The point is, is this an indication of tendency towards crime by race, or is it an indication of the disproportionate number of coloured people living in conditions which are likely to lead to crime ? Crime is crime, there is no excuse for killing someone ( unless you're GWB and want to kill hundreds of thousands, but that's another discussion ), but people who live with no hope anyway are surely less likely to care ? Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
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Chris Maunder wrote: It's because we're used to taking our news seriously instead of having to take it with a grain of salt. Please tell me you don't believe your news implicitly. :~ :suss: Skepticism is important in these matters. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash. - Emo Phillips
There's a difference between taking it seriously and believing it implicitely. The level of skepticism though is always proportional to the amount of sensationalism. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Christian Graus wrote: Has anyone seen this movie ? Yes. Christian Graus wrote: Is it even showing in the USA ? Yup! Watched it just down the street when it opened; it's now been out a while, but it's still playing at the budget pizza-and-movie place downtown. Donno how many people are watching, but... Christian Graus wrote: A very interesting movie Indeed! Much, much better than "Canadian Bacon". Christian Graus wrote: Americans have guns. Ah, but so do the Canuks, see? That's one of those cool little hooks in the movie - Michael admits it's more than a simple problem. Christian Graus wrote: The movie starts with a bank where they give you a GUN to open an account. Ain't it great? I could *totally* see that too, with the bank employees not even considering how this *might* be a bad idea. Donno if you've ever lived in a place like that, but he seriously isn't kidding - *everyone* owns guns*****! :-D *****plural, of course. ---
My whole life I've practiced the art of self-sabotage -- fearing success perhaps even more than fearing failure. I think I have got this flareup resolved, but I'm constantly waiting to see what new and exciting ways I can spoil my chances for a better life. - koreykruse, Compulsive Skin Picking
Shog9 wrote: Canuks Canucks :-D Shog9 wrote: Indeed! Much, much better than "Canadian Bacon". This is a movie that just makes so much more sense / is a hell of a lot funnier if you're Canadian... The movie just takes all the stereotypes than Canadians have on Americans, and all the stereotypes that Canadians think Americans have of us, and overemphasizes them. I don't know, it just makes more sense if you grew up with knowing all the stereotypes (from our side). :-D (am I making any sense?) Bowling for Columbine is on my list of Things To Do. I prefer to wear gloves when using it, but that's merely a matter of personal hygiene [Roger Wright on VB] Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. [Rich Cook]