8 years of college and can't program?
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Hm. In the US they are interchangeable. Interesting.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Just to understand how colleges are rule here - in my crew (12) no one went to university...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Not everyone should be a programmer.
So true and yet so difficult to convince those who shouldn't be that they shouldn't be. I've worked with at least one terrible programmer -- who did not even understand the basic concept of function calls, so he had thousands of lines of same, slightly altered, for loop peppered through a program which had the same bug throughout. He could not be convinced of his powers of terribleness and could not be deterred from writing more bad code. Blithely they roll on. :)
I was a warehouse person at a company. My job was to receive inventory, stock inventory, ship inventory, etc. I managed to hit myself in the head with a steel rod and get a knot large enough to almost consider a hospital visit. Many questions were asked, "Are you Ok" "Do you need to go to the doctor" "Why was there a steel rod in your hand" "How come we heard light-saber noises before your injury" etc. Bottom-line, warehouse work is not for me. I don't have the capacity for it. I know that, it is my limit. Others should learn theirs as well.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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Hm. In the US they are interchangeable. Interesting.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
In the US they are interchangeable
Ehhhh... not exactly. A University is made up of colleges. The College of Engineering, College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, College of Business, College of Law, etc...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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RyanDev wrote:
In the US they are interchangeable
Ehhhh... not exactly. A University is made up of colleges. The College of Engineering, College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, College of Business, College of Law, etc...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Ehhhh... not exactly
Yes. But people still say, "I'm going to college" way more than "I'm going to university." In fact, I can't recall ever hearing anyone saying, "after high school, I'm going to university."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Ehhhh... not exactly
Yes. But people still say, "I'm going to college" way more than "I'm going to university." In fact, I can't recall ever hearing anyone saying, "after high school, I'm going to university."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Here's a snippet from this great article and great author, James Altucher... [-- Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment—I couldn’t program. I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess. I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. --] https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140506232520-5858595-10-things-entrepreneurs-don-t-learn-in-college?trk=object-title[^]
I liked the first reply to this article. :) "I stopped reading half way though this because the article has nothing to do with entrepreneurship or college. This is a long rant about somebody who lived a sheltered life and got hit hard when they came to the "real world"." /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Quote:
8 years of college and can't program?
I would expect that someone who takes 8 years to get through college can barely tie their own shoes.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
What are shoes?
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What are shoes?
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They do in the UK. College is where children (and some adults) go after school to get low level vocational qualifications or to get skills up to a level to go to university. University is where adults go to get degrees or higher qualifications. Although it used to be different, there used to be polytechnics for vocational qualifications and universities for academic qualifications but the polytechnics had pretensions of grandeur and soon both were called universities. This happened the year I first went to university IIRC. Traditional universities are made up of a number of colleges, but that is more of a tribal thing than an educational thing, and they are not related to the colleges from above.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
Same here in South Africa. Though we have Universities for the "degrees" and Technical Colleges (abr. Technicon) for vocational qualifications (i.e. Diploma instead of Degree). Or at least that's how it used to be (when I was at uni) until someone thought it sounded not too Politically Correct and now you can get your B.Comm / B.Sc / B.Funny at a tech as well ... :omg:
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Here's a snippet from this great article and great author, James Altucher... [-- Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment—I couldn’t program. I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess. I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. --] https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140506232520-5858595-10-things-entrepreneurs-don-t-learn-in-college?trk=object-title[^]
We had an intern who was in his fourth year of college (not university, but something more practical), and he couldn't write a single line of code. He studied for Application Developer. The name of his study was Application Development. He had courses like Programming, Databases, Design and what have you. He couldn't write a single line of code... Literally. When I first sat down with him he 'forgot' how to declare a variable in multiple languages (we tried VB and C#). According to his teacher database design was his strong point, but he couldn't design a basic master-detail structure (he put the detail id in the header and couldn't figure out what was wrong even when I pointed it out). Here is the sad part. He graduated the same year! :omg: :wtf: :confused::~ :| X| I lost the little bit of faith I had in our schooling system, and humanity as a whole, the day I heard he graduated...
It's an OO world.
public class SanderRossel : Lazy<Person>
{
public void DoWork()
{
throw new NotSupportedException();
}
} -
They do in the UK. College is where children (and some adults) go after school to get low level vocational qualifications or to get skills up to a level to go to university. University is where adults go to get degrees or higher qualifications. Although it used to be different, there used to be polytechnics for vocational qualifications and universities for academic qualifications but the polytechnics had pretensions of grandeur and soon both were called universities. This happened the year I first went to university IIRC. Traditional universities are made up of a number of colleges, but that is more of a tribal thing than an educational thing, and they are not related to the colleges from above.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
"University is where adults go " ROFL! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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"University is where adults go " ROFL! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Well that took a lot longer than expected. What is the correct term for those who are no longer legally children but not yet able to act like adults. Twats perhaps?
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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We had an intern who was in his fourth year of college (not university, but something more practical), and he couldn't write a single line of code. He studied for Application Developer. The name of his study was Application Development. He had courses like Programming, Databases, Design and what have you. He couldn't write a single line of code... Literally. When I first sat down with him he 'forgot' how to declare a variable in multiple languages (we tried VB and C#). According to his teacher database design was his strong point, but he couldn't design a basic master-detail structure (he put the detail id in the header and couldn't figure out what was wrong even when I pointed it out). Here is the sad part. He graduated the same year! :omg: :wtf: :confused::~ :| X| I lost the little bit of faith I had in our schooling system, and humanity as a whole, the day I heard he graduated...
It's an OO world.
public class SanderRossel : Lazy<Person>
{
public void DoWork()
{
throw new NotSupportedException();
}
}Of course, I went to London University, which meant going to a college and, after three years, being able to use BSc(Eng)(Lond) after my name. I studied Aeronautics at the world's first Aeronautics faculty at QMC. We 'ad it 'ard. We had about three lectures on computing and were expected to pick up how to use the card batch system on our ICL 1904 mainframe for Fortran 4 programmes which solved equations - Runge-Kutta, Newtonian or plain algebra - and that was it. In my final year I chose a full year project, simulating Harriers in full 6 DOF, still in Fortran 4. By the time I did my first Masters (Cranfield, 1 year), the die was cast and I was hooked on engineering programming. Nice work if you can get it, but while my degrees gave me general engineering sense and domain knowledge, programming was self-taught.
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Here's a snippet from this great article and great author, James Altucher... [-- Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment—I couldn’t program. I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess. I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. --] https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140506232520-5858595-10-things-entrepreneurs-don-t-learn-in-college?trk=object-title[^]
I hope the article is exaggerating a bit, but I agree with the general statement. After 4 years of writing arrays and data structures and OS fundamentals I got out of school and landed a VB.Net job as a contractor on a team of 1 to build a web app. I had never written in .Net or any decent OO language (VB6 doesn't count). Most of our C++ in college was all functional recursive stuff. I had a ton of concepts to learn, an IDE to understand, deployment to think about, SOLID principles, etc. A friend of mine did a vocational school instead and hit the ground running when he finished. 10 years later we've both ended up as strong technologists but I would have had a much easier go had I learned things applicable upside of academia. I think the only thing I learned from my 4 year BS degree (no pun intended) that I haven't relearned is what O(n) means.
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Here's a snippet from this great article and great author, James Altucher... [-- Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment—I couldn’t program. I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess. I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. --] https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140506232520-5858595-10-things-entrepreneurs-don-t-learn-in-college?trk=object-title[^]
If it is any consolation neither can any of your professors. :~
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
RyanDev wrote:
In the US they are interchangeable
Ehhhh... not exactly. A University is made up of colleges. The College of Engineering, College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, College of Business, College of Law, etc...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Same in Brazil. I studied in a college that became an university when they started teaching other areas besides engineering. Edit: You could say that you always go to college when you are going to the university, but you are not always going to university when you are going to college.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
College?! Not university
Do those have a different meaning where you are at?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Ehhhh... not exactly
Yes. But people still say, "I'm going to college" way more than "I'm going to university." In fact, I can't recall ever hearing anyone saying, "after high school, I'm going to university."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
When I spent a year as a high school senior in Minn. a long time ago (75-76), my classmates were certainly considering going to the University or to a college - often referred to as a "community college". Maybe things have changed in the 38 years since then, or maybe it varies from state to state. Those community colleges did award bachelor degrees, master degrees were far less common. The education was generally viewed as less academic, much more applied science. Here in Norway, we distinguish between universities and "høgskole" (which literally translates to "High School", but you start høgskole education after 13 years of general schooling). Similar to what Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter tells, høgskole education teach you how to do things properly, rather than do develop new theories ;), and the education is shorter: Up until a few years ago, you could choose between a two-year and a three-year program. Today, only the three year program is offered. In engineering diciplines, a University education will take you five years. If you continue to a Ph.D, it will typically take you another two to three years, for a total of eight years. Re. the headline and original post: It is commonly said here in Norway that a høgskole educated engineer can be put to productive work immediately, while a university educated engineer won't be of any real value for your company for the first year after he completes his education. (However, the university guy usually has a much higher long term potential.) I guess this is another phrasing of what newton.saber says. In my study days, I postponed my last year of study, working for 14 months, so I believe I was of use to my first (post-degree) employer from day one. :) (Actually, it was the same company I worked for during those 14 months.) But I would like to mention that going back to university after 14 months of work exprience raised a lot of questions in me about the usability of the stuff we worked with the last year. It didn't seem very essential to the needs that I had learned during my working year.
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RyanDev wrote:
where you are at?
At my college/university we were taught to not end a sentence with 'at'. Oops, just did it. (sorry Dude, couldn't resist)
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When I spent a year as a high school senior in Minn. a long time ago (75-76), my classmates were certainly considering going to the University or to a college - often referred to as a "community college". Maybe things have changed in the 38 years since then, or maybe it varies from state to state. Those community colleges did award bachelor degrees, master degrees were far less common. The education was generally viewed as less academic, much more applied science. Here in Norway, we distinguish between universities and "høgskole" (which literally translates to "High School", but you start høgskole education after 13 years of general schooling). Similar to what Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter tells, høgskole education teach you how to do things properly, rather than do develop new theories ;), and the education is shorter: Up until a few years ago, you could choose between a two-year and a three-year program. Today, only the three year program is offered. In engineering diciplines, a University education will take you five years. If you continue to a Ph.D, it will typically take you another two to three years, for a total of eight years. Re. the headline and original post: It is commonly said here in Norway that a høgskole educated engineer can be put to productive work immediately, while a university educated engineer won't be of any real value for your company for the first year after he completes his education. (However, the university guy usually has a much higher long term potential.) I guess this is another phrasing of what newton.saber says. In my study days, I postponed my last year of study, working for 14 months, so I believe I was of use to my first (post-degree) employer from day one. :) (Actually, it was the same company I worked for during those 14 months.) But I would like to mention that going back to university after 14 months of work exprience raised a lot of questions in me about the usability of the stuff we worked with the last year. It didn't seem very essential to the needs that I had learned during my working year.
