Anyone here do "night shifts"?
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I've had an odd email from an associate, in which he says that a Large Company has offered him a development role as a "Process Specialist" but that the position might require he to work night shifts. Now, I live a sheltered life, but I've never heard of developers working shifts, (heck, getting us to work at regular hours is hard enough) much less night shifts - in fact I can't think of any "thinking", "creative" position that does shift work at all! Is this normal now, out in the Big Wide World? Only thing I can think of is that he is being suckered into a Technical Support role, not development, in the full and certain knowledge that once he joins that Legion Of The Damned (even temporarily) the only ways out are Suicide and Mass Murder...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
The developers of the code for the production lines work night shifts, partly for support, partly because they have to test their changes on the production at some point, and make trial and error, and the production does not wait until the next morning.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
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I've had an odd email from an associate, in which he says that a Large Company has offered him a development role as a "Process Specialist" but that the position might require he to work night shifts. Now, I live a sheltered life, but I've never heard of developers working shifts, (heck, getting us to work at regular hours is hard enough) much less night shifts - in fact I can't think of any "thinking", "creative" position that does shift work at all! Is this normal now, out in the Big Wide World? Only thing I can think of is that he is being suckered into a Technical Support role, not development, in the full and certain knowledge that once he joins that Legion Of The Damned (even temporarily) the only ways out are Suicide and Mass Murder...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
I use to do nightshift, and very occassionally do them now, particularly around big turnaround or projects when we double up on managers due to criticality. The software guys in the controls group also occassionaly do nightshifts as we work 24 hour operations, the projects run 24 hours, the commissioning must run 24hours. Then you get the drilling schedules that dictate the well might be handed back to operations at 10pm and its all hands to the decks to get the thing on as quick as possible, e.g. a 5mbd well is a gross rvenue of 25,000 usd an hour, so timing is critical. Then there is also the onshore process engineers and well guys who will provide the support to bringing on the wells and analysis the data to determine how to bring it on and what the data is telling us. On the drilling side the geo guys are working 24 hours to make decisions on the reservoir and drilling targets as they cut through the various plays.
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I've had an odd email from an associate, in which he says that a Large Company has offered him a development role as a "Process Specialist" but that the position might require he to work night shifts. Now, I live a sheltered life, but I've never heard of developers working shifts, (heck, getting us to work at regular hours is hard enough) much less night shifts - in fact I can't think of any "thinking", "creative" position that does shift work at all! Is this normal now, out in the Big Wide World? Only thing I can think of is that he is being suckered into a Technical Support role, not development, in the full and certain knowledge that once he joins that Legion Of The Damned (even temporarily) the only ways out are Suicide and Mass Murder...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
They can only afford a limited number of computers and need 'round the clock shifts to get the required through put?
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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The developers of the code for the production lines work night shifts, partly for support, partly because they have to test their changes on the production at some point, and make trial and error, and the production does not wait until the next morning.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
Rage wrote:
developers of the code for the production lines
There are developers writing code not for production?
Rage wrote:
test their changes on the production
Isn't that called QA?
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Rage wrote:
developers of the code for the production lines
There are developers writing code not for production?
Rage wrote:
test their changes on the production
Isn't that called QA?
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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The real world isn't nicely compartmentalised.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
I'm working in the real word over 15 years and never asked to do QAs job - it is even wrong to let developer test his own code!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
"It never ceases to amaze me that a spacecraft launched in 1977 can be fixed remotely from Earth." ― Brian Cox
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My previous employment required us to work shifts to support the key times of the business and that was because there was some technical support required. If a problem arose that the first line support couldn't handle then it needed looking at by someone more technically capable very quickly at certain times of the day, typically 0600 to 0700 or 2000 to 2130. It often did require a knowledge of the code and particularly querying the database to see what was going on. I loved working such shifts, and eventually became permanently lates, as from half 5 everyone else would bugger off and I was left on my own for four and a half hours in which I could get on with what I wanted (I played a lot of Transport Tycoon). Support calls were typically zero to three a night and eventually I did take on first line support as well (for an extra £15 a night) as 90% of calls at that time would require me and those that didn't were very quickly dealt with. I have also heard of developers working shifts to fit in with the working times of offshore development for the same company / product. [Edit 1] I should say that it was a small development team, and there were only 4 of us really trusted to do this role, with another one or two who could be left in charge if we really had to. [Edit 2] I once did the early shift, from 0600, then the lad who was supposed to be doing the late shift phoned to say his dad had died, everyone else was away on a course so I stayed for the late shift too, til 2200. A week later I was late for a normal 0900 start and given a large bollocking, not a mention was made of the previous week. This was one of the things that contributed to me wanting to leave.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
chriselst wrote:
A week later I was late for a normal 0900 start and given a large bollocking, not a mention was made of the previous week.
No good deed goes unpunished. :-D
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Rage wrote:
developers of the code for the production lines
There are developers writing code not for production?
Rage wrote:
test their changes on the production
Isn't that called QA?
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
There are developers writing code not for production?
I meant the production lines of our products : our products (mecatronics systems) are driven by software, and are assembled by production lines which are also drive by software. I meant the latter.
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
Isn't that called QA?
No, it's deployment, and validation. You can emulate an assembly line up to a certain point, but sooner or later you need to test it on the real line.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
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I'm working in the real word over 15 years and never asked to do QAs job - it is even wrong to let developer test his own code!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
I take it you've never been a developer in a very small team in a totally none tech related business then, or been the only developer in a company, or been a developer who also has responsibility for servers and networking and email and anything to do with a plug really. You know, the real world.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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I take it you've never been a developer in a very small team in a totally none tech related business then, or been the only developer in a company, or been a developer who also has responsibility for servers and networking and email and anything to do with a plug really. You know, the real world.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
Wrong. I'm leading a 5 person team (4 developer + 1 system guy). We run a project that has over 500 web pages grouped into 4 personal portals. The application installed on over 2000 servers and all of them is our responsibility. However, running test late night on the production servers by a team member is something that never happened. Also production test of the code by the developer is something that never happened (and will not as long as I'm here). And the reason is simple - you can not trust a developer to test his own code, he will not do it right...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Wrong. I'm leading a 5 person team (4 developer + 1 system guy). We run a project that has over 500 web pages grouped into 4 personal portals. The application installed on over 2000 servers and all of them is our responsibility. However, running test late night on the production servers by a team member is something that never happened. Also production test of the code by the developer is something that never happened (and will not as long as I'm here). And the reason is simple - you can not trust a developer to test his own code, he will not do it right...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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I'm working in the real word over 15 years and never asked to do QAs job - it is even wrong to let developer test his own code!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
I test my code all the time, and always have. Developers who don't test their code are just guessing that it works. And if you assume it does, you can construct an enormous software edifice before it's handed to QA who find it doesn't even walk, let alone run! :laugh: Not formal acceptance testing, no - but even limited functional testing to ensure compliance with the specification needs access to the data or hardware it will interface to.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt -
I test my code all the time, and always have. Developers who don't test their code are just guessing that it works. And if you assume it does, you can construct an enormous software edifice before it's handed to QA who find it doesn't even walk, let alone run! :laugh: Not formal acceptance testing, no - but even limited functional testing to ensure compliance with the specification needs access to the data or hardware it will interface to.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
Test his own code as a QA test I mean. Of course you run it to test sanity, but never for production test. That's a different beast...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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I've had an odd email from an associate, in which he says that a Large Company has offered him a development role as a "Process Specialist" but that the position might require he to work night shifts. Now, I live a sheltered life, but I've never heard of developers working shifts, (heck, getting us to work at regular hours is hard enough) much less night shifts - in fact I can't think of any "thinking", "creative" position that does shift work at all! Is this normal now, out in the Big Wide World? Only thing I can think of is that he is being suckered into a Technical Support role, not development, in the full and certain knowledge that once he joins that Legion Of The Damned (even temporarily) the only ways out are Suicide and Mass Murder...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
I did night shifts for a while. The MO was I was embedded on a client site and they were going through branch migration. Every week 2-3 branches moved over to the new system. All the live data loading was done at night to alleviate load on the system during working hours and I was supporting the bank in case "Fan In Excresia". I started work at midnight so my routine was to get up at around 8, go out to dinner and then go onto work. I, of course, never drank when I had to go to work. Well hardly ever. I finished at 8 in the morning when the rest of the team got in; the namby pamby day shift. Then I'd go to a nice little tavern near home that served a decent breakfast and I'd have a half carafe of wine afterwards. Maybe a second one. Bed by noon. While I was in work I provided around 13 seconds of support each night. Crucially we were also developing an interface into the cash machines; not ATM's but safes that under the tellers desk and dispensed notes. The bank had only one spare machine, they were frogging expensive, and it was in the training room. So each evening I'd plug the cash box into my faithful lappie and hack away carefully work through the spec. During that period, I was being billed for [0] on-site support, [1] out of hours migration support and [2] developing the cash machine interface. Triple billing and thank-you very much big bonus.
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Test his own code as a QA test I mean. Of course you run it to test sanity, but never for production test. That's a different beast...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
Yes - but if you are supposed to be driving production equipment, then you need to run your code on production hardware - preferably when it isn't in use and it doesn't matter if it fails in spectacular fashion. As it will, the first couple of times... :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt -
Yes - but if you are supposed to be driving production equipment, then you need to run your code on production hardware - preferably when it isn't in use and it doesn't matter if it fails in spectacular fashion. As it will, the first couple of times... :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
I have no experience with hardware - so i can't really tell what I would do there. All my opinions about software-for-software development...(And that fails also a lot ;) )
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Wrong. I'm leading a 5 person team (4 developer + 1 system guy). We run a project that has over 500 web pages grouped into 4 personal portals. The application installed on over 2000 servers and all of them is our responsibility. However, running test late night on the production servers by a team member is something that never happened. Also production test of the code by the developer is something that never happened (and will not as long as I'm here). And the reason is simple - you can not trust a developer to test his own code, he will not do it right...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
I think you missed something here it was production LINE, possibly manufacturing. I have worked night shift in such environments where you can get at the machines.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I think you missed something here it was production LINE, possibly manufacturing. I have worked night shift in such environments where you can get at the machines.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Yeah. I got that from OG too... :sigh:
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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I test my code all the time, and always have. Developers who don't test their code are just guessing that it works. And if you assume it does, you can construct an enormous software edifice before it's handed to QA who find it doesn't even walk, let alone run! :laugh: Not formal acceptance testing, no - but even limited functional testing to ensure compliance with the specification needs access to the data or hardware it will interface to.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
OriginalGriff wrote:
before it's handed to QA
QA = the users...
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I've had an odd email from an associate, in which he says that a Large Company has offered him a development role as a "Process Specialist" but that the position might require he to work night shifts. Now, I live a sheltered life, but I've never heard of developers working shifts, (heck, getting us to work at regular hours is hard enough) much less night shifts - in fact I can't think of any "thinking", "creative" position that does shift work at all! Is this normal now, out in the Big Wide World? Only thing I can think of is that he is being suckered into a Technical Support role, not development, in the full and certain knowledge that once he joins that Legion Of The Damned (even temporarily) the only ways out are Suicide and Mass Murder...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
Folks in my group do occasionally to do testing on our prototype machine. Some of this happens on second shift, because: In their Infinite Wisdom, the Powers That Be dictated that There Shall Be Only A Single Prototype, and You Sniveling Engineers Can All Share. And they said I was crazy for wanting to do user interfaces. No travel to customers, no night shift :-D.
Software Zen:
delete this;
