How Many Years Coding
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
_WinBase_ wrote:
I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines
Something tells me that regardless of your productivity, the deadlines aren't going to change. The guy who is making the planning should be fired, without any further discussion.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I'm guessing it's something along these lines[^] as to why the statement was made, it was a funny one though.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
Oh yes, now I see. Funny as this 35-hours rules pretty did not change anything in the amount of hours most people work a week. On quiet weeks, I usually work about 42 hours; but that can grow up sometimes (more often than that, in fact). This has just set up some additional resting days (about 1.5 days a month) that we can take when we need; pretty useful as most administrations are closed on week-ends. Thanks for your clarification :)
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who separate humankind in two distinct categories, and those who don't. "I have two hobbies: breasts." DSK
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Oh yes, now I see. Funny as this 35-hours rules pretty did not change anything in the amount of hours most people work a week. On quiet weeks, I usually work about 42 hours; but that can grow up sometimes (more often than that, in fact). This has just set up some additional resting days (about 1.5 days a month) that we can take when we need; pretty useful as most administrations are closed on week-ends. Thanks for your clarification :)
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who separate humankind in two distinct categories, and those who don't. "I have two hobbies: breasts." DSK
When this was reported in the US, they presented it in a somewhat humorous light, making it seem as though the whole country was a bunch of slackers. However, I think it was really jealousy (at least I was jealous anyway). ;)
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
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Paul M Watt wrote:
Well, I think we can rule out that you work in France...
Would you care explaining the causality behind this assumption? Because it does not seem directly obvious to me.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who separate humankind in two distinct categories, and those who don't. "I have two hobbies: breasts." DSK
It's a reference to this demotivator from despair.com: Effort[^]
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It's a reference to this demotivator from despair.com: Effort[^]
Ok, I didn't know this one. I don't see things this way, either ^^ But I get how it is seen from outside.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who separate humankind in two distinct categories, and those who don't. "I have two hobbies: breasts." DSK
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It's a reference to this demotivator from despair.com: Effort[^]
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
_WinBase_ wrote:
and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'
That of course depends entirely on you. A comedian can make a lot of money but if you absolutely refuse to get on a stage it isn't going to be much fun. A good sales person can make much more than a good developer but if you are going to be miserable doing that then it doesn't matter.
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_WinBase_ wrote:
put in 80+ hour weeks
Well, I think we can rule out that you work in France... The programmers I know that loved programming and solving problems then moved to management hated it. They also turned out to be very poor managers. I've become complacent at times, but have discovered that there are plenty of different types of jobs out there. I have also found with many of them you really can work a regular work week. I have been reluctant to change jobs because I thought the money couldn't get any better, or whatever else. Basically the fear of change, but non of my fears have turned out to be true. Hopefully you are working with a technology that you enjoy, and is somewhat sustainable. I would suggest to stay on top of the technologies that are used for the types of programming that you enjoy and whats relevant for that industry.
Paul M Watt wrote:
moved to management hated it ... very poor managers
I've worked for a couple of bosses who had been developers and wished they still had the time to develop. But they didn't appear to hate it and weren't bad at it. It sure beats working for someone who has no idea what development is all about -- those can be some bad bosses.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
I've been programming since 1980, professionally since 1988. Your use of coding is interesting since that's the part I enjoy the most--the actual implementation. Dealing with management and the process-of-the-day is the hardest part of the job.
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
Since July, 1965. Dave.
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
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Been coding since 82 but never professionally. I love coding but could never be able to handle the stress of deadlines and constantly changing requirements. And besides, I would rather be farming.
Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
I started coding proper in 1983 when I got my first computer a 48K ZX Spectrum. I wrote my first database engine which was able to save all of 12 records due to the lack of memory. I now work as a developer and know what you mean about being a 'manager' - I have always been a 'technician' wanting to do the work myself rather than telling others how to do it. My professional career started in 1990 when I cut my teeth as a COBOL programmer. Also 80+ hour weeks sounds a bit much. Having said that in a sense I am working most of the time as I am frequently thinking of how to solve issues when I am not working at the computer. However I could never work 80 hours flat out. I find my 45 minute lunchtime walk is one of my most productive times when I am away from the computer thinking of how to solve particularly knotty problems.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Been coding since 82 but never professionally. I love coding but could never be able to handle the stress of deadlines and constantly changing requirements. And besides, I would rather be farming.
Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote:
could never be able to handle the stress of deadlines and constantly changing requirements
I think most people can't which is why it's important to find a job where there are no impossible deadlines and you have the freedom to create systems in a manner that allows for changing requirements. I am lucky to work in a situation where I get to set the deadlines with my clients and I help draw up the requirements. That said there are times when I have done a lot of work for a request and the user never makes use of what I have created - after the cussing and gnashing of teeth I do however eventually realise that even those projects that are shelved have enabled me to learn something new.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
Well compared to the others (and you) I'v just started. But still I had moments (the past 6 months) where I truly didn't like my job, but that's because I was doing more support / project management than programming (If I wrote 10 lines of code in the past 6 months not including this week, it's a lot). But then I get a project in winforms / wpf and I start to enjoy it again. Hell I even started to enjoy doing MVC (untill it all went down hell and the whole support / project management thing came up) I'v had a few jobs in my professional life (not all programming but most) and I'v learned one thing, no matter what job you do or company you work for their will always be something that bugs you. All you can do is try to limit the amount of things that bug you. Anyway my 2 cents (not worth that much compared to the experienced old guys around here). :)
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
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PJ Arends wrote:
could never be able to handle the stress of deadlines and constantly changing requirements
I think most people can't which is why it's important to find a job where there are no impossible deadlines and you have the freedom to create systems in a manner that allows for changing requirements. I am lucky to work in a situation where I get to set the deadlines with my clients and I help draw up the requirements. That said there are times when I have done a lot of work for a request and the user never makes use of what I have created - after the cussing and gnashing of teeth I do however eventually realise that even those projects that are shelved have enabled me to learn something new.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Deadline: an arbitrary promise one makes when the labor itself will be delegated to someone else (and putting the burden of meeting it on the same person oc.) Unless I'm doing what I have done before (which DRY forbids) it'll be hard to say when it is done.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
As I posted just last week, I've been at the same company (sort of) for 36 years.[^] However, I had two summer jobs before that where I: worked at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) programming data analysis for the Viking Mars Orbiter, and then did Operating System (TOPS-10/Tops-20) support at Digital Equipment Corp.
A positive attitude may not solve every problem, but it will annoy enough people to be worth the effort.
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
With 25 years of earning a living by coding I'm about ready to hang it up, as I didn't start coding till my mid 30s that make me an official old fart. The only time I would work 80hrs in a week is if it was self imposed and I agree with others that your PM needs to be sacked if you need to regularly work those sort of hours to meed deadlines. After 10 year in the same, very lucrative, contract it is finally coming to an end and I am dammed if I can figure out what to do next. I enjoy coding and mentoring others but with the demise of Silverlight I have lost my web expertise and MVC is a dog so it will be either WPF or retire or a complete change. I think I fancy being a small tour bus driver in one of the Oz wine regions.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
_WinBase_ wrote:
I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living
Me too - coding professionally since Jan 1978. I went through the project management stuff, became CIO, didn't enjoy it so went back to development. In the meantime I qualified as a teacher (IT and Science) & would give my left nut to be able to stop working for the man and teach full time - but getting a full time teaching job in Australia is all but impossible unless you are a) willing to relocate to woop-woop or b) just graduating from Uni. Was actually offered a 6 month teaching contract recently, and just had to turn it down, because I can't afford to gamble on getting work at Xmas time - and can't afford to just not work. The passion I had tends to die when I am working for a company I don't'feel' for. If I was braver, I'd give it up and teach, and work outside school hours developing my own stuff - but I'm not a gambling man! Hopefully I can find a job, ideally with a small company, developing interesting software, where I can learn new things and enjoy the passion again... (I'm waiting for the phone call now!)