How Many Years Coding
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
I'm 64 and I have been doing this for 40 years. I currently specialize in the Microsoft .NET development environments. I know what you are saying about so many new technologies coming out but a lot of it is just fluff that does nothing to really benefit the developer or the user. In this vein, I find MVC and its many outgrowths to be one of the biggest problems facing an industry that in the corporate environments often require very complex interfaces. You can do this with MVC but why bother when you will get similar performance with ASP.NET Web-Forms and only half the effort? Many of these new technologies are being hyped by the younger crowd who I have found have little knowledge as to how to design complex systems, which is demonstrated by mixing MVC paradigms with such development processes such as Agile, neither of which have moved the rate of project failure a single digit down from its consistent high of around 70%. As to the passion; well I am wearing out but not because of the technologies or the work. I just can't take working with so many incompetent technical managers any more. Technical managers don't give a wit about proper software design paradigms and are willing to throw any crap against the wall just to get something done, while many users are left in a lurch without proper requirements development since long ago the industry shed the positions of systems analyst and business analyst as it was thought to be "cheaper" to let the developers do everything. Well we know how that is working out... I would be interested in any and all comments (just no profanity please...)
Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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I have the record. I started in 1960 with UNIVAC working on the 1st computers for NAVY ships CIC operations. Still coding at 77 on Vari-lite moving lights. (Lots of steper motors.)
Larry
You Sir DO have the record as far as i'm concerned, having started a year before I was born lol. If I push it I can say I started on programmable calculators a year or so before computers, either 76 or 77, cant remember exactly, but I take my hat off to you :)
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PJ Arends wrote:
never professionally
:omg: :wtf: No kidding ? And I thought you were one of the many great professionals out there ! What are you doing for a living then, if I may ask ? And who is that super cute lil'girl in your bio ?
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Entropy isn't what it used to.
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
I began coding in 1971 with a part-time job while in high school (long story). My first language was Fortran, then Assembler for 15 years, on to C for 10 years, next to Cold Fusion, and now VB.Net and C#. I still enjoy coding and have resisted going into management for that very reason. I could make more money supervising people and spending hours in meetings, but I would not be happy. I've seen more than one technician follow the management route and end up a bad manager. I realized a long time ago that I did not want to become one of those statistics. It has been many years since I put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines. Those types of hours are passion killers and usually indicate a problem with project scope/timeframe, management, or even that you're being taken advantage of (in my opinion and experience). A word about "passion"; Merriam-Webster defines it as "a strong feeling of enthusiasm or excitement for something or about doing something". I wholeheartedly agree with this definition. Employers on the other hand, tend to define it as an all-consuming desire to work in complete disregard of one's personal life or health. This is a mistake. As for the new languages, frameworks, operating systems, etc., some of them are examples of "everything new is old again". But my approach is to be informed about the new fangled gadgets, keep watch on where the industry is headed, and select whatever interests me or might further my career. I don't know of an occupation my programming skills could be transferred into. I was a dancer many years ago, but at the age of 60 I live in fear of falling and breaking a hip so I think that dream will remain just that. :-D I'll likely remain that old, crusty, programmer in the corner cubicle for several years to come.
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
I graduated in Physics in 1966 and went to work for Boeing in Seattle acquiring and reducing data from wind tunnel tests, calculating lift and drag, measuring noise from directional mics. Next stop was working on the OS at Prime Computer. Long story short, I've been writing code since I was in college and still am. Today, storage is king and I'm deep in iSCSI, Fibre Channel and Windows integration. I still write code every day, every week.
StCroixSkipper, aka Scott Moreland
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I began coding in 1971 with a part-time job while in high school (long story). My first language was Fortran, then Assembler for 15 years, on to C for 10 years, next to Cold Fusion, and now VB.Net and C#. I still enjoy coding and have resisted going into management for that very reason. I could make more money supervising people and spending hours in meetings, but I would not be happy. I've seen more than one technician follow the management route and end up a bad manager. I realized a long time ago that I did not want to become one of those statistics. It has been many years since I put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines. Those types of hours are passion killers and usually indicate a problem with project scope/timeframe, management, or even that you're being taken advantage of (in my opinion and experience). A word about "passion"; Merriam-Webster defines it as "a strong feeling of enthusiasm or excitement for something or about doing something". I wholeheartedly agree with this definition. Employers on the other hand, tend to define it as an all-consuming desire to work in complete disregard of one's personal life or health. This is a mistake. As for the new languages, frameworks, operating systems, etc., some of them are examples of "everything new is old again". But my approach is to be informed about the new fangled gadgets, keep watch on where the industry is headed, and select whatever interests me or might further my career. I don't know of an occupation my programming skills could be transferred into. I was a dancer many years ago, but at the age of 60 I live in fear of falling and breaking a hip so I think that dream will remain just that. :-D I'll likely remain that old, crusty, programmer in the corner cubicle for several years to come.
Hi Ed thanks for replying, I cant believe how many people have done so lol - I replied earlier to someone explaining that i've had my own small software business for 20+ years and on occasions i've had to put in long weeks sometimes for months on end, 6am to 9pm which makes 80hrs small potatoes at times when ive been writing commercial systems to compete with larger companies and ensure my survival, which I think has worked out quite well. my last large commercial system took years to develop and I got no revenue from it during that time as well as having fee earning work to do, so couldn't hang about too much and had to drive hard to achieve my goal, but im seeing a lot of benefit now I suppose. GL Bob
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
Got started learning programming just before high school in 1969, after high school was a computer operator that rewrote programs to make them faster and easier to use (the "systems programmers" had no concept of time/motion), first professional job was in 1976. First published programs in 1980 (game cartridge) and then Apple II utilities in 1982. (I'll let you do the math) Worked 100+ hours/week doing conveyors because we couldn't program the conveyors (each was unique) until they were built and client expected to use it shortly after. I wrote a table driven universal carton tracking system in FORTH that new manager didn't understand and he declared future programs were to be written in "C" to be "commercial." I would have written a simulator so we could do simultaneous development during construction, but idiot manager insisted on being an idiot. He thought job was 8 to 5. Out in the field he got to experience his first 12 hour day (clients expect you to cover all three shifts) and boy was his butt dragging at the end. Cheer up, I said, just wait for your first 36 hour day and yes, there will be 48's as well. Because of him (and a big raise) I left and he didn't last much longer. I still miss that job. Required everything I knew and a little bit more besides to keep it fun and challenging. I love my current job as a manager that gets to program. A previous job where I was accidentally left in charge had no time to program in. Still work on outside projects on weekends to learn stuff regular job does not currently use, but twice now, the knowledge acquired from the outside projects have been applied at work and saved the company vast sums of money. I do not plan on retiring.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
For a profit, around 5 years, but I love to code, so probably I would be doing it till the end of times (or my life, whichever comes first... :laugh: )
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
I've been coding for a living for 41 years this July. I loved it for about the first 30 but then the world changed somehow. Maybe I just got old. Anyway, I also arrived at the point where it just seemed pointless to keep learning new programming stuff. I have hobbies but I just don't have the time for them as long as I'm working. The gig I'm on now is the last one. When it's over, I'm retiring so I can do all the stuff I want to do without programming. Oh, it only took me ten years to discover that working more than 40 hours a week is a loser's game. There's no way you will get that time back and you miss out on a lot of more important stuff when you are working that much. In all those forty years, they kept trying to turn me into a manager but I refused. There's no way I would do that when I could stay coding.
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I've been writing & supporting code for commercial and bespoke (mainly business) systems since 1978 on many different platforms and languages, and 36 years later I still love it, still do it for a living, & am writing my best stuff, but look at all the new languages, frameworks, operating systems etc. and think "here we go again" so am getting increasingly reluctant to want to keep re-learning it all once more, and at 52 I still often put in 80+ hour weeks to meet deadlines but can feel a bit of the passion dying year on year, so how long have others kept on? and if you moved away to a different sphere or know of others that did, what did they do? I earn good money which is hard to give up but it isn't the be all and end all, i'm just looking for something different where I can put my experience to good use and have a tad more fun over and above being some sort of 'manager'. Thanks.
Since 1964: so 50 years. COBOL, Focal, Fortran, ALGOL, PL/1, APL, Basic, Burroughs Assembler, Datapoint Databus, IBM Assembler, Intel 8088/8086/..., Perl, Dialog, Ksh/Csh/Bash, Javascript, PHP, C#, ... Now mostly: Perl, Bash, Javascript, PHP, C#. Lots of others to learn for fun on the weekends. I am interested in them all ...
"Courtesy is the product of a mature, disciplined mind ... ridicule is lack of the same - DPM"
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Farming. Milked cows in my past life, now I raise chickens. And that is my daughter.
Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote:
Farming. Milked cows in my past life, now I raise chickens.
I'm sure I have a book on C++ written by you hiding somewhere under my desk. Wouldn't that be considered professional programming?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Paul M Watt wrote:
moved to management hated it ... very poor managers
I've worked for a couple of bosses who had been developers and wished they still had the time to develop. But they didn't appear to hate it and weren't bad at it. It sure beats working for someone who has no idea what development is all about -- those can be some bad bosses.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
It sure beats working for someone who has no idea what development is all about -- those can be some bad bosses.
But the worst of all bosses above all Chupacabras, scarier than all Yeti, more fearsome than all Sasquatch are the bosses who know very little coding, but believe they know very much. Then when your 'splaining why something doesn't work they respond, "Oh, blah, blah, yeah, I know all that. And obviously you are lying about the way that Microsoft component works, because there are no bugs in Microsoft components. So, what's the real reason you are behind on your project?" I suggest you provide the following answer to this boss, after jumping on top of the conference room table: "Your mother!" :laugh:
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PJ Arends wrote:
Farming. Milked cows in my past life, now I raise chickens.
I'm sure I have a book on C++ written by you hiding somewhere under my desk. Wouldn't that be considered professional programming?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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That would be considered amazing as I have never written a book.
Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote:
That would be considered amazing as I have never written a book.
I'm now going to have to dig the book out and have a look at it. Positive it was written by someone here on CP (before CP existed) and for some reason your name sprang to mind last night.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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PJ Arends wrote:
That would be considered amazing as I have never written a book.
I'm now going to have to dig the book out and have a look at it. Positive it was written by someone here on CP (before CP existed) and for some reason your name sprang to mind last night.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Since 1964: so 50 years. COBOL, Focal, Fortran, ALGOL, PL/1, APL, Basic, Burroughs Assembler, Datapoint Databus, IBM Assembler, Intel 8088/8086/..., Perl, Dialog, Ksh/Csh/Bash, Javascript, PHP, C#, ... Now mostly: Perl, Bash, Javascript, PHP, C#. Lots of others to learn for fun on the weekends. I am interested in them all ...
"Courtesy is the product of a mature, disciplined mind ... ridicule is lack of the same - DPM"
Coded first program in 1966. Solved Shrodinger Wave Equation given boundary conditions using Fortran which we had to learn on our own to do the homework for Physics class at Miami University. Since have programmed in assembly (mainframe and PC), PL/I (mainframe and PC), Cobol, Basic (original and later versions), Turbo Pascal, Delphi, Delphi Prism, RemObject's Oxygene. And dabbled in others including C#, Modula II, Ada, etc. I prefer the Algol derived langugages. Don't much care for C and its derivatives. Made a spreadsheet program for the mainframe in PL/I which IBM marketed and made $10 million from.