Self taught programmers
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Chris Losinger wrote: so, i could've taken a job right out of high school as a programmer and ended up as essentially a one-trick programmer. but that would've been a totally stupid thing to do. Not necessarily. In the early 90s I considered the two choices that lay before me: go wide, or go deep. I chose deep, being a C guy, then C++, then, most importantly, a VC++ 1.0 guy. I latched on to all the little technologies as they came along (okay, so who else here wasted a couple of years of their life writing ActiveX controls?), but overall what has served me well over the years is that I'm an extremely senior level VC++ guy, and enjoy the income that accompanies that status. You probably make as much as I do with your decision to go wide instead of deep. But I've still got 4 years of income on you! :-D Chris Losinger wrote: and of course: my wife. See, now that's a worthwhile benefit of a formal education! Although you don't have to have a tremendous education to get married. You only need to know two phrases: "I do" and "Yes, dear". :-) Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
Christopher Duncan wrote: your decision to go wide instead of deep are you implying that i'm somehow less 'deep' of a C++ programmer than you are ? Christopher Duncan wrote: I do" and "Yes, dear happy wife. happy life.
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Christopher Duncan wrote: your decision to go wide instead of deep are you implying that i'm somehow less 'deep' of a C++ programmer than you are ? Christopher Duncan wrote: I do" and "Yes, dear happy wife. happy life.
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Chris Losinger wrote: are you implying that i'm somehow less 'deep' of a C++ programmer than you are ? :eek: Oh, my, what have I gotten myself into this time? <backs cautiously towards the nearest exit> Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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I heared about alot of people who are teatching them selves programming I my self tried to be on e and still trying I am now good in something and very bad in others such as the basics of programming if you are originally a programmer there seems to be some basics that you know that help you study any new tool much faster and eficient then non programmers my qyestion is to all non programmers originally how do you teach your selves the basics the background are there any resources that you can tell me about :):-D:):-D:rose: La ILah Ila allah Mohamed Rasoul Allah
Not really sure what basics you mean. I think what you're talking about just comes down to experience. If you're self taught, you're better at filtering through information to get the parts you need. If you've only learned by a professor feeding you in steps, then it's more difficult to get the juicy bits on your own. For me, when i take on a new language, I think about the project at hand, and make a list of things I need to learn to get it finished. File I/O, data types, screen output, whatever.... then look for a resource that covers those topics. Don't get hung up on things you can easily look up again. BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security
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Chris Losinger wrote: are you implying that i'm somehow less 'deep' of a C++ programmer than you are ? :eek: Oh, my, what have I gotten myself into this time? <backs cautiously towards the nearest exit> Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
fight! fight! fight! meet me in back of the gym after school. bring your compiler! :) guess i forgot to include sufficient (any) sarcasm signifiers. -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: are you implying that i'm somehow less 'deep' of a C++ programmer than you are ? :eek: Oh, my, what have I gotten myself into this time? <backs cautiously towards the nearest exit> Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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fight! fight! fight! meet me in back of the gym after school. bring your compiler! :) guess i forgot to include sufficient (any) sarcasm signifiers. -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: fight! fight! fight! meet me in back of the gym after school. bring your compiler! Not me, man. I'm a sissy. Besides, those of us with lesser abilities tend to avoid frontal assaults, so an EMP will precede my arrival, just to be on the safe side. :-D Chris Losinger wrote: guess i forgot to include sufficient (any) sarcasm signifiers. Well, I figured better safe than sorry! I've seen what happens around here when a good thread goes bad. It's not pretty. Hmmm, come to think of it, that kinda sums up the code I've been working on lately, too... Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Christopher Duncan wrote: your decision to go wide instead of deep are you implying that i'm somehow less 'deep' of a C++ programmer than you are ? Christopher Duncan wrote: I do" and "Yes, dear happy wife. happy life.
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Chris Losinger wrote: happy wife. happy life. Happy life, new wife. ;P Just picking, congrats man. Jeremy Falcon Imputek
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I heared about alot of people who are teatching them selves programming I my self tried to be on e and still trying I am now good in something and very bad in others such as the basics of programming if you are originally a programmer there seems to be some basics that you know that help you study any new tool much faster and eficient then non programmers my qyestion is to all non programmers originally how do you teach your selves the basics the background are there any resources that you can tell me about :):-D:):-D:rose: La ILah Ila allah Mohamed Rasoul Allah
Being a self taught programmer requires some foundational work so that you can: 1. communicate clearly 2. listen with comprehension 3. think logically 4. think creatively Then, and only then, should you can consider teaching yourself programming. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" -
Being a self taught programmer requires some foundational work so that you can: 1. communicate clearly 2. listen with comprehension 3. think logically 4. think creatively Then, and only then, should you can consider teaching yourself programming. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"Marc Clifton wrote: Then, and only then, should you can consider teaching yourself programming, grasshopper ;) BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security
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:laugh::laugh:But you got awaayyyyyyyyyyy from the main topic I haven't gotten my answer till now I have an MSDN , a compiler,and the ability to work for hours is this OK La ILah Ila allah Mohamed Rasoul Allah
It's a good start, in terms of the basic tools. You also need motivation and an interest. I've found that having a particular task in mind to work on is far more useful in terms of learning things than just, say, reading a chapter of a book. There is little point in just filling your head full of facts and knowledge, in a fairly random fashion, unless it is more directed. So it's all very well learning assembler, say, but what exactly are you learning it for? (I think the person who suggested that may have been a little sacrcastic, but, hey, in a forum like this, you never know :~ ) The information/tools/languages etc. are so vast that you can't even skim the surface of it all. Much better to concentrate on the things that interest you or that are useful to achieve an end result. Debbie
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Being a self taught programmer requires some foundational work so that you can: 1. communicate clearly 2. listen with comprehension 3. think logically 4. think creatively Then, and only then, should you can consider teaching yourself programming. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files" -
Marc Clifton wrote: 1. communicate clearly That's half of the programmers I know cut out with a single swipe. Debbie
Debs wrote: That's half of the programmers I know cut out with a single swipe. make that half the population. (at least) BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security
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Christopher Duncan wrote: Man, 4 years of income wasted! not at all. there's no way i would've ever run across any of the following: VAX/VMS, Solaris, *nix, Smalltalk, LISP, Icon, Occam, Fortran, Modula 2, XWindows, 2 years of calculus, 2 years of discrete math, 2 years of physics, 10 liberal arts electives, 2 years of classes in printing industry using real production presses, including the imaging theory required to go from computer or photo to ink on paper, 5 1/4s of co-op employment, a chance to hang out with hundreds of other programmers, photographers, EEs, CEs, MEs, ComputerEs, and of course: my wife. so, i could've taken a job right out of high school as a programmer and ended up as essentially a one-trick programmer. but that would've been a totally stupid thing to do. -c
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Personally, I think it more so depends on the person. On average, someone in college taking CS is doing it because it's a profitable field, etc. Someone who is self-taught usually does it because they love the field. Now, there are exceptions, but this is the way it "usually" goes. People that love the field study harder - period. People that don't, won't. As far as the uni, I think you could either make the most of it or let it make the most of you. Case in point, all of those Unix flavors you spoke of, well I know standard Unix pretty damn well (not some of the proprietary crap you get with Irix, Solaris, etc.). That came from working at three ISPs - two of which I helped start. I can guarantee the level of first-hand education I got by that was better than any college class. What I can say is that I did not choose the college route. So I can vouch for the level of education you can receive on your own. Even after talking to recent CS grads at LSU in Baton Rouge - they were morons. I tend to always know more about computers and more subjects than my coworkers. And, you cannot convince me that if a college prof knew enough to make $200K a year he would still be teaching. Also, all the college grads I know would basically tell you the same thing. College teaches you how to learn in your field - the rest is up to you. So, technically I agree with both you can Chris Duncan in the fact that college could go either way, but it does rely heavily on the person attending. Just my two cents. Jeremy Falcon
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It's a good start, in terms of the basic tools. You also need motivation and an interest. I've found that having a particular task in mind to work on is far more useful in terms of learning things than just, say, reading a chapter of a book. There is little point in just filling your head full of facts and knowledge, in a fairly random fashion, unless it is more directed. So it's all very well learning assembler, say, but what exactly are you learning it for? (I think the person who suggested that may have been a little sacrcastic, but, hey, in a forum like this, you never know :~ ) The information/tools/languages etc. are so vast that you can't even skim the surface of it all. Much better to concentrate on the things that interest you or that are useful to achieve an end result. Debbie
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Paul Watson wrote: I would rather hire a self taught programmer than a chap who has only done his BSCE/BCOMIS and is fresh out of varsity what about someone who taught themselves then went to college to make it official ? i started programming when i was 12 or 13 - this was long before there were "programming classes" to take, in my school. then, after i graduated high school, i went to college and got a degree in CompSci. -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: what about someone who taught themselves then went to college to make it official ? That would make you the exception my friend. :-D Jeremy Falcon Imputek
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I heared about alot of people who are teatching them selves programming I my self tried to be on e and still trying I am now good in something and very bad in others such as the basics of programming if you are originally a programmer there seems to be some basics that you know that help you study any new tool much faster and eficient then non programmers my qyestion is to all non programmers originally how do you teach your selves the basics the background are there any resources that you can tell me about :):-D:):-D:rose: La ILah Ila allah Mohamed Rasoul Allah
Basically for the first 6 months just try and understand computers. Also pick a programming language (I recommend C) and try out some nice little programs. Just get really good at this language. Byt the 3rd month or so you'd slowly start moving towards C++, Win32 etc... Just dont bother about whats hot and whats not. After 6 months or so, you'll know enough to make sense of an answer someone gives you when you ask him/her what's best in today's computer field. Right now if someone told you that .NET is good or ATL is good or whatever, you wouldn't really understand it. By the way, good wishes :-) Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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:)actualy no I was taught english in school, but I am a bad speller:rose: La ILah Ila allah Mohamed Rasoul Allah
Samer12 wrote: I was taught english in school, but I am a bad speller No problem; quite a few people here and elsewhere who were born into the language are poor spellers. Just as with programming languages, human languages require practice. :-D It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003 -
Paul Watson wrote: So you are ideal in my eyes (apart from the reading skills.) Er, is literacy a requirement in this biz? Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
If the help files and error messages I've seen over the years are any measure, literacy is clearly optional. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003 -
Paul Watson wrote: So you are ideal in my eyes (apart from the reading skills.) Er, is literacy a requirement in this biz? Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
Christopher Duncan wrote: Er, is literacy a requirement in this biz? How else are we supposed to read your brilliant books Mr. Duncan? ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
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Christopher Duncan wrote: Er, is literacy a requirement in this biz? How else are we supposed to read your brilliant books Mr. Duncan? ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.
Paul Watson wrote: How else are we supposed to read your brilliant books Mr. Duncan? Now there's a point I probably shouldn't argue... :-) Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)